1 Drop Dorks are Dead!?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 9, 2015, 3:27 p.m. by jpeachesd
So with new sets something small but fundamental changes about one of the colors, and this time around it seems to be our 1 drops for Green. More specifically our Dorks. Leaf Gilder seems to be our new go to common dork, and that has me worried for the future of our beloved mid-range green stomp decks. As Mono Green, if we don't get our momentum going we can't pull out the big guys, which is what the deck is about. I mean sure, all these cool 2 drop dorks we have been seeing that give us a little bit more, (Enter Gyre Sage, Sylvan Caryatid, Rattleclaw Mystic, Whisperer of the Wilds, and Shaman of Forgotten Ways,) but we are still "Draw Go" Turn 1 without our 1 drop dork. I just don't see the justification in slowing down an already slow color.
CastleSiege says... #3
Elvish Mystic was printed not all that long ago...
Also, "...slowing down an already slow color" what are you I don't even
June 9, 2015 3:37 p.m. Edited.
Where did you get the idea that WOTC won't print any more of Llanowar Elves and co? There will almost always be a one drop dork in standard, it's just that they are quite powerful in limited, so printing them in every single set is far from necessary.
June 9, 2015 3:39 p.m.
MaRo has said that R&D feels like 1 CMC mana-dorks are a bit too powerful. Mostly in the vein of Noble Hierarch and Birds of Paradise.
June 9, 2015 3:39 p.m.
WovenNebula says... #6
I can see that @JWiley129 since creatures are becoming more and more efficient as is, it'd make sense since when BoP and Noble were conceived the creatures besides them weren't as efficient CMC wise.
June 9, 2015 3:44 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #7
Could we not fill the forums with click bait? thanks.
Also, Golden Hind, Karametra's Acolyte, Rattleclaw Mystic, Whisperer of the Wilds, and Voyaging Satyr are all non-one drop dorks that no one lost their mind over. Calm down.
June 9, 2015 3:51 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #9
ThatJunkMage bitch all you want, you clicked on it too.
June 9, 2015 4:26 p.m.
Ikr? You don't get top 100 without loving a chunk of your life to TappedOut...
June 9, 2015 4:39 p.m.
Hell,I'm only rank 352 and I already spend way too much time on here! Haha
June 9, 2015 4:40 p.m.
I mean it is a bit of a shame that they're moving away from it but you have to understand that Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch ARE too powerful for their cost. A 1 mana, 1/1 dork that taps for a single colour - sure. A 1 mana dork with exalted that taps for multiple colours - wow.
The above would never be anything less than rare now and even a basic 1-drop dork should be uncommon, even without all that other stuff attached. They are very good.
June 9, 2015 5:33 p.m.
WovenNebula says... #15
Maybe Birds of Paradise will be a 20 dollar plus card again in a few years.
June 9, 2015 5:40 p.m.
I think birds has been reprinted WAY too many times for ut to ever get that high again
June 9, 2015 6:07 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #17
I just want to add to the "green being slow" conversation - My turn 3/4 Craterhoof Behemoth says otherwise :3
June 9, 2015 6:19 p.m.
trollslayer says... #19
Eeeehhhhhhhh, it has lots of high mana cost big creatures, but that because they have mana dorks.
June 9, 2015 7:03 p.m.
KindredDiscovery says... #20
If memory serves MaRo says 1-drops are a wee bit too good for standard, mostly because the decks that run them can curve right in to their 3-drops. Essentially, it reduces the usefulness of 2-drops, which is obviously a problem for developmental reasons.
June 9, 2015 8:27 p.m.
I came into this thread expected a spoiled 1 drop mana dork, but now I'm just happy I got my playsets of Birds of Paradise & Noble Hierarch. Thanks
June 9, 2015 8:39 p.m.
slovakattack says... #22
Wizards of the Coast is still experiencing PTSD from DRS. Give em' time :P
June 9, 2015 9:06 p.m.
this is confusing... we've always had one in recent history, there's always been mana producers that cost more than one mana, and there's no reason to think that there won't be one in the next standard rotation, so whats the problem?
We have a handful of spoilers from origins and absolutely zero from BFZ, unless you have some sort of inside information that strictly says there will not be a 1 drop mana dork ever printed again, declaring them dead seems a little irrational.
As for your what you said about having nothing to do on turn 1 with no 1 drop mana dorks, well even if they did do away with them it's not like they'd never print a 1 drop green creature again (Servant of the Scale is a current example). So, the only way you'll absolutely never have anything to do on turn one is if you refuse to include 1 drop creatures in your deck simply because they're not mana dorks.
June 9, 2015 11:26 p.m.
Here you go...
"carloszero asked: Why are recent manadorks more than 1-cmc? The only exception is Elvish Mystic.
Mark Rosewater: Development has come to the realization that they are little too strong at one mana."
...I'm hoping that he means "In the current Standard meta"... but that's not what has been stated.
June 10, 2015 8:27 a.m.
As far as the reference to Servant of the Scale... I think when people were saying that there's nothing to be played on T1, they may have been referring to the Ramp strategy decks.
Servant of the Scale is not good in a Ramp deck... Standards best 1-Drop Ramp support (aside from Elvish Mystic) is currently Font of Fertility, which is really just a poor excuse for Ramp... early game it takes you 2 full turns to get 1 extra land in play... late game it's just a useless card.
If Elvish Mystic rotates and no good 1-Drop replaces it, the Ramp strategy will have too slow of a start to compete with RDW or any other aggressive start.
This can be offset by even better 2 drops. - Sylvan Caryatid being able to block decently, as well as being hexproof helps make up for the low number of 1 drop plays...
June 10, 2015 8:38 a.m.
I was just using that as an example of a green 1 drop. My point was is that even if 1 drop mana dorks are gone there are going to be other options. Plus, if that happened wizards would almost be put in a position where they would have to print other usable 1 drops in green to make up for it, or make ramp less necessary by lowering the CMC of some of the big green beaters. However, just like any other deck archetype that loses pieces during rotation you have to adjust and use what you do have to your advantage. Maybe instead of just strictly trying to play the largest creature they can by turn 3 the deck uses 1 and 2 drops that provide some sort of additional value but is still able to ramp into large value creatures in the mid game because of the 2 drop dorks that are available. Having to make adjustments to a deck at rotation doesn't mean the death of a color archetype.
June 10, 2015 1:16 p.m.
True... but we aren't strictly discussing rotation. We are talking about the overall viability of Ramp as an archetype in Standard, going forward.
If they completely remove 1-Drop mana dorks, ramp is much less viable.
Using utility creatures instead is not Ramp. - What you are talking about is Mid-Range, and is already a well established archetype.
You appear to be making the argument "Instead of playing Ramp, play Mid-range".
Really, the only reason 1-Drop dorks are now considered 'too powerful' is because of the power creep of creatures.
There was a time when a 4-Drop 5/5 didn't exist... you would have to get to 5-6 mana to get that much power. - Now that 4-Drop 5/5's are running rampant, getting to 4+ mana early is becoming too strong.
This is the same reason why Birthing Pod had to be banned... as more powerful creatures get printed at lower costs, the power of Pod increased. - When 3-Drop 5/5's become common Collected Company will be too strong as well. (Just using 5/5 as a P/T example... it's overall card strength that I'm really referring to)
KillDatBUG says... #2
"...slowing down an already slow color"
Say what....
June 9, 2015 3:33 p.m.