36 Planeswalkers in War of Sparks
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on March 8, 2019, 5:42 p.m. by Eledain
War of Sparks will have 36 different playable planeswalkers. This just got confirmend from WotC. Every pack will contain one planeswalker.
What is your opinion? Imo too much planeswalkers available in standard isn't good for gameplay. Planeswalker tend to snowball too much, especially in multiples. I'm afraid that Sparks limited could become really crappy.
ZendikariWol says... #2
Right, Dango!? This is actually something that really gets me, as a budding writer. I know “multiple authors, bla bla bla, development can’t be consistent, bla bla,” then get one writer on this set and one writer on the next seven you have planned. Hopefully communication is good enough that it can work out, and I think if it did, the charm of and fan reception to the writing would drastically increase.
March 19, 2019 9:18 a.m.
Mj3913 this thread has been so busy that it has a second page now haha. My response to your question about the source article is on the first page right after your question. I just forgot to tag you in it.
March 19, 2019 9:51 a.m.
ZendikariWol I'm honestly looking at this set as more of a scapegoat to cut ties with the walkers who have gone stale and simply kill them off. I feel like it's just a way for Wizards to get out of the corner they've back themselves into rather than trying to develop these characters any further. My only hope is that Tamiyo lives, she's our only real hope for a Return to Kamigawa set.
March 19, 2019 9:55 a.m.
ZendikariWol - Multiple authors alone does not account for the mediocrity of Magic's story and character development. While it certainty makes writing and consistency harder, those are not insurmountable problems. Take any TV show--each episode is generally written by a different author, yet the showrunner can still coordinate and ensure a singular, unified vision.
I would argue the problems with Magic's story lie deeper and are twofold. First, there is a lack of unified vision. This ties in with the multiple authors problem, but I feel the fault falls upon whoever is in charge of the story's overseer. The overseer has the option of working with multiple authors on a singular, complex story; he or she just consistently fail to do so. The second issue is the quality of the writing itself, which tends to be mediocre-at-best.
I think those are both solvable problems, the issue is whether Wizards is willing to do so. I suspect not, as the written stories likely do not result in significant monetization.
Tying this all back to the purpose of the thread, I expect another disappointing installment in Magic's story. I suspect the writers will not be able to handle that many Planeswalkers, and many will be relegated to brief cameos. I, of course, would love to be proven wrong; but Wizards' writing department does not exactly have my confidence.
March 19, 2019 10:01 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #6
I agree wholeheartedly, cdkime. I don’t know if you noticed the “bla bla blas”, but I was just lamp shading the obvious conterargument.
I write, a lot, and part of what I usef to write, long ago, was Magic the Gathering fan fiction. I’d actually kind of like to return to that and see what I can do. I would honestly love to talk to the people at WotC and see if I could work in their lore department, but that is laughably unlikely, so for now, fan fiction it is.
March 19, 2019 10:27 a.m.
PlatinumOne says... #7
vasarto77: nissa is one of my top favorite planeswalkers, and not just in green.
March 19, 2019 8:10 p.m.
I didn't used to dislike Nissa, but she's grown incredibly stale and boring to me.
March 19, 2019 9:36 p.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #10
I used to love Nissa as a character, but I agree that she's become a bit stale lately. I think the most interesting thing she's done lately has been to leave the Gatewatch though, which actually felt very in character for her. I hope she continues to be more, you know, independent? And not just a backdrop for Chandra and Gideon to clash against.
March 20, 2019 1 a.m.
PlatinumOne says... #11
Nissa, Steward of Elements is anything but stale imo lol
March 20, 2019 2:02 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #12
I mean she’s basically a green walker whose +2 is scry 2. And also as much as I’m interested in blue Nissa, there has been no character development to justify the mechanical change.
March 20, 2019 9:23 a.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #13
Also the Golgari mage in me is really salty that they printed GU Nissa before GB Nissa.
March 20, 2019 8:33 p.m.
PlatinumOne says... #14
PhotogenicParasympathetic: black really doesn't fit nissa though.
i do think we could use a multicolored version of Liliana or Chandra though. i'd accept or Liliana or or chandra.
March 20, 2019 8:42 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #15
Oh, but the backstory of black Nissa is soooo much more fun than blue Nissa.
All blue Nissa had was a “trial of knowledge”. It was basically that “think outside the box” quiz that your middle school teacher gave you.
Black Nissa? Black Nissa suffered a loss- a loss she couldn’t stop thinking about. A loss that drove her every move: Zendikar. Her home, her closest companion, consumed by death. It all falls to her- all the pain and guilt and fear and death, everything that was lost.
it’s all your fault.
All of this was for YOUR mistake.
You killed them all- every blade of grass was a victim of your foolishness.
The voices grew louder, more violent. They hissed and they clawed, they bored into the back of her mind. She had to find a way to restore it all- everything that she had destroyed. It couldn’t be restored. No, not restored... reversed?
Reversed...?
Reversed.
March 20, 2019 11:04 p.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #16
ZendikariWol I'd like to see something similar with Jace where he is either pushed to a point of utterly destroying someone and can't turn back, or perhaps Memory wipe #? Where he discovers his abilities again and uses them in a more sadistic manner. It'll likely never happen but... hey, one can speculate.
March 20, 2019 11:26 p.m.
I do not like the idea of a multicolor Liliana or Chandra in any capacity. They just feel too mono colored to ever lean one way or another for a splash color.
March 21, 2019 6:09 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #18
See, realistically, no fleshed-out character is monocolored.
I am a firm believer in the value of morality.
I am strongly nurture-over-nature and tend to be cooler and more level-headed in times of stress.
I am often a pinch egotistical and believe in personal freedom.
I am lazy and often shortsighted.
I am a simple person and I really wish that everyone would spend less time with technology and more with themselves and one another.
That’s elements of EVERY COLOR and that’s just me.
March 21, 2019 7:11 a.m.
I disagree that fleshed our characters can’t be monocoloured. Having traits from a colour is not enough to make that colour part of your colour identity - your colour identity is set by the traits that are fundamental your character.
So, as a counterpoint, I offer a mono-Green character who was fairly complicated and realistic - Nissa, prior to Wizards retconning her character and making her retroactively more boring.
Old Nissa was effectively a racist with a deep-seeded loathing for anything that was not of Zendikar or comport with her idea of what Zendikar should be. Her racism was based entirely in mono-Green naturalistic ideals, as opposed to Black’s selfishness or White’s groupthink. While she might touch on other colours, her identity was consumed by this particular take on Green.
As she developed as a character, her love of Zendikar could morph into a love of nature generally, and a desire to protect the people of each plane, as opposed to just Zendikar. That is still very mono-Green. A love of nature is the core of her principals; and her desire to protect people stems from their place in nature, as opposed to White’s love of society. That’s a pretty solid character arc, all without leaving mono-Green.
But, instead of using Nissa to explore Green’s subtleties, she has been relegated to generic Druid figure. I am hoping her rage-quitting the Gatewatch signals a return to her racist Zendikar First ways, but am ever-doubtful.
All that is to say, there are enough nuisances in the individual colours to structure individual, realistic, and complex characters. A failure to do so lies not with the colours themselves, but with a lack of creative vision.
March 21, 2019 8:43 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #20
That is fair, cdkime, but still that’s a very white mentality; that “I am right and you are wrong and I may enforce my rightness because I am right.” You see it in so many classically white characters; Gideon, the heroes of many video games, Javert from Les Miserables, Judge Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame, the Catholic Church, etc.
(note: as I am, myself, a devout Catholic, please don’t be offended by this post. I reserve the right to poke fun at my own religion)
March 21, 2019 9:11 a.m.
DwaginFodder says... #21
Colors are also determined by DOMINANT traits, not every single facet of a character. For example, many black characters like Liliana and Davriel Cain have demonstrated an ability to act selflessly, directly against their color's philosophy. Jace may have a thing for defending the multiverse, but he isn't blue-white.
This doesn't mean that current character design isn't flawed, just that characters aren't wholly consumed by the associated gameplay mechanics and philosophies, just defined by them.
March 21, 2019 9:27 a.m.
ZendikariWol - While I agree the effect of old Nissa's intolerance is something often found in White, that does not mean old Nissa was a White character.
Motivation is more important than effect. The characters you listed are all motivated by a mono-White ideal--a strict, unflinching adherence to a morality beyond themselves. Nissa does not personally ascribe to a White morality; her guiding principle is nature. That puts her firmly in mono-Green, even if there is some resemblance to White in her manifestation of her mono-Green principles.
I would also argue one of your own examples proves your point that you can't have realistic mono-coloured people incorrect.
One of the core plots of Les Mis is the conflict between Javert and Jean Valjean. Interestingly enough, both these characters are pretty firmly rooted in mono-White ideals. Javert is motivated by his understanding of morality--it's a harsh understanding, where law and God are not to be questioned. Likewise, Valjean, post his experience with the Bishop, is defined by his own understanding of morality--his is a much kinder one, where the most important things are helping your fellow man.
This is still a very mono-White character development, as it is focused on the character changing his fundamental understanding of morality greater than the self.
Ultimately, this central conflict is between two very White characters, perfectly encapsulating how much complexity the individual colours can have.
March 21, 2019 9:58 a.m. Edited.
DwaginFodder says... #24
Also, on the original topic of this thread, I've crunched some numbers on WAR. Most of this is based on math, which I can provide to back this up, but it is by no means confirmed.
Out of the 36 'walkers in WAR, 17 will be mythic rare, and the remaining 19 will be rare (with the appropriate drop in power level and complexity). This means each color, color pair, colorless, and Grixis will each have a mythic rare walker.
Judging from the color spread of known characters, each color and color pair will have approximately two 'walkers. Some characters might be shifted in color from their last appearance to fit this. For example, I am of the belief that Tibalt will end up red-black in this set. The quantity of known white-blue 'walkers means that Narset might be mono-blue. While I hope that Sarkhan will remain Temur, his art demonstrates a leaning back towards mono-red. Samut may shift to Naya from red-green. Huatli has almost definitely reverted to white-red.
There are two new 'walkers whose color identities have yet to be determined. I am of the belief that who I call "the blue sorceress" will end up mono-blue, and "the grey one" will end up white-green.
March 21, 2019 10:17 a.m.
cdkime I appreciate all of your well thought out responses. You're very knowledgeable and understanding, and you make counterpoints in a way that doesn't invalidate others. This is how debating should go, and I just thought I'd leave you a heart-felt compliment based on your contributions in discussion on here as well as from our past interactions in which you've shared your thoughts and have been very helpful. :)
March 21, 2019 10:23 a.m.
Dango - I appreciate the compliment, but I want to make sure ZendikariWol gets credit as due. While it only takes one person to have an argument, it takes two to have a discussion. As someone who argues professionally and in extremely contentious situations, it is rather refreshing to use some of my down time to have a friendly debate on a topic I find interesting.
March 21, 2019 10:39 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #27
Well, DwaginFodder, sometimes acting selflessly is acting in self-interest. Emotionally attaching yourself to something requires that you defend it, at great emotional risk to you.
Now, cdkime, I love a chance to talk Les Mis, especially as I saw it last night in Chicago (he says, blatantly bragging). But anyway, neither Valjean not Javert are incredibly well-developed as individuals (though tbh that adds to the play’s effect as they serve as microcosms of a greater conflict, and there are approximately 9,003 other characters to develop), they are very simplistic characters.
Also, thanks for the compliment, Kime... CD?? Idk, I’ll think up a nickname sometime.
March 21, 2019 11:26 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #28
cdkime and I have had a really nice debate and... I have found my premise indefensible. For perhaps the first time in internet history, I humbly concede. For those who might have been on my side, I will explain why.
I have actually written my own counterargument, the one I’ll be using here. See my prior address to DwaginFodder. I meant this to prove that every character shows evidence of other colors in them- and I stand by that sentiment. However, I also agree with Fodder and cdkime in that color is defined by dominany traits, but perhaps not in the way they intended. To explain, I’ll use an example I ised above; myself. Upon further consideration, if I were monocolored, I think that color would be blue. Here is why:
: I believe that morality should be upheld. I believe this because I believe that morality furthers the advancement of people and society.
: I believe in personal freedom for the same reason- it builds character, makes you a better person.
: While I can, sometimes lack regard for my own future, it’s the first place I look when I make decisions. I am acutely aware of the consequences of my actions. Sometimes I just choose to make poor decisions anyway.
: While I do think that people need to spend a little more time away from their phones, I also understand that the advancement of technology is the advancement of society. The two improve each other.
Notice a similar vein running through all of that? So yes, I have beliefs in every color, but the why is always evolution- always blue. That’s what mono-coloration is.
TL;DR I largely agree with my prior stances, but my conclusion based on them was flawed, I think.
March 21, 2019 1:49 p.m.
And nissa derail the thread
ZendikariWol Even Caerwyn point out you don’t even understand color identity vs trait “.. I have found my premise indefensible. For perhaps the first time in internet history, I humbly concede.” Passive aggressive way to say you are slow at learning, despite writing. It boils down to you want to write your version of fic
Dango Everytime I saw someone say ‘Bland’ the only example the provide of not bland is if character being radical
January 26, 2022 6 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #31
Eavy_Eavy look, I wrote that three years ago. I was honestly being humble, my writing voice was just pretentious as hell in high school. Idk what I was writing about at all, I read the first paragraph of my rant and that was all, but like, rest assured I was being genuine, I just sounded like a bit of a prick bc that's how I wrote back then.
Dango says... #1
ZendikariWol I can agree with you there. There are many walkers who are so completely bland and stale when they could easily expand on the depth and storytelling aspects by adding in actual personality traits to exemplify who they are.
March 19, 2019 9:08 a.m.