Actual Bfz Spoiler thread.
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Aug. 28, 2015, 5:17 p.m. by TheNextRedDude
Because so many requested it, heres a place to talk about all the spoilers that don't deserve threads of their own.
Icanshigit says... #2
TheNextRedDude not really. I'm thinking battalion/battle cry type mechanics... possibly even modern playable.
September 19, 2015 11:18 a.m.
I just finished up my deck list for game day though im still looking for advice. any help would be appreciated. Weird Aggro Control Now with Eldrazi!
September 19, 2015 11:38 a.m.
SorcerersBone says... #4
I've been trying out a budget modern deck with Mirror Mockery on various allies, but I gotta say putting it on Halimar Excavator is fantastic, especially if you use flashback, dredge, unearth, etc.
Going back to standard, it's sad that Mana Confluence is rotating out. Converge is going to be a difficult mechanic to use now. But has anyone noticed the beauty in Zulaport Cutthroat + any boardwipe? Kinda makes you want to run eldrazi alongside allies for cheap fodder, huh.
September 19, 2015 1:01 p.m.
SomethingRandom says... #5
I had a deck made before BFZ started getting spoiled that worked around the dragons option of Outpost Siege. Flood the board with tokens and then sac them to Nantuko Husk, or chump block with them, or board wipe, whatever you do the hurt your opponent, Cutthroat fits right in.
September 19, 2015 1:38 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #6
My favorite new board wipe...Have a couple tokens + Zada, Hedron Grinder then Bone Splinters
September 19, 2015 2:10 p.m.
SomethingRandom says... #7
not sure what you're going for there unless you're just trying to destroy all your own creatures
September 19, 2015 2:12 p.m.
SomethingRandom says... #9
Sacrificing as part of a cost doesn't target and won't trigger the copies
September 19, 2015 2:15 p.m.
SomethingRandom says... #10
If you were thinking of targeting him to be destroyed it will only destroy creatures you control
September 19, 2015 2:16 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #11
The idea was a last ditch effort allowing me to trade my 1/1 tokens for their much larger creatures (i.e. Eldrazi) all for the lovely cmc of 1, but I was thinking the destroy also got copied, but I am mistaken.
September 19, 2015 2:23 p.m.
The destroy part would be copied, but you must have read Zada wrong. First off, sacrificing a creature is part of the cost and does not require a target. Secondly, Zada copies spells that target only him, so in order to copy Bone Splinters you would need to target Zada with that spell. Then for each creature you control that Bone Splinters could target, you make a copy of it (the copy is created directly on the stack and therefore doesn't require sacing more creatures cause it's not cast) and target each one of those creatures. SO for the low low cost of sacrificing a creature and a 
you can kill Zada and every other creature you control. The problem is, most likely you'll want to kill your opponents creatures and not yours so you won't be targeting Zada with Bone Splinters which means it won't create any copies.
Zada is much more useful with something like Titan's Strength (or other cheap buffs). With 3 creatures on the board (one being Zada), you can target Zada with Titan's Strength. It will then copy Titan's Strength for the other 2 creatures you control and each one will get +3/+1. So for the low cost of a 
, you will add 9 power to the board and get to scry 1, 3 different times.
September 19, 2015 3:26 p.m.
OP_Magikarp says... #14
UNLESS, you want to make a janky token deck and use Outpost Siege choosing dragons then for the low cost of one black, you can deal a poop ton of damage to your opponent
September 19, 2015 4:03 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #15
Thanks abenz419. I actually have been playing around with a Zada deck that on christmas can deal 100+ dmg on T5 but, for a moment I thought I may have found a sneaky board wipe, just wasn't playing close enough attention.
September 19, 2015 4:04 p.m.
IvoryFrost says... #17
me too :(
I still want to play red but I'm not sure what other colours to splash...
September 19, 2015 5:50 p.m.
SorcerersBone says... #18
Here are the few beneficial combos with Zada in a limited/draft environment.
- Zada + Adverse Conditions = double your board presence with 1/1s that can sac for mana. Oh, then cast it again to quadruple.
- Zada + Swell of Growth = Buff your board state by +2/+2, and play all the lands in your hand. Great with landfall.
- Zada + Tandem Tactics = gain life equal to twice the number of creatures you control, and they all get +1/+2.
- Zada + Sure Strike = creatures you control get +3/0 and first strike. Not bad at all.
September 19, 2015 6:08 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #19
IvoryFrost Blue. Gives you access to Treasure Cruise and Day's Undoing, as well as the new Clutch of Currents and Rush of Ice, both working very well in combination with the prowess creatures. I'm currently testing a list and it's been working pretty great so far.
September 19, 2015 6:16 p.m.
IvoryFrost says... #20
FAMOUSWATERMELON I was thinking blue or black. But I'm leaning more towards blue.
I'll wait till and the cards are in the database and start brewing.
September 19, 2015 6:39 p.m.
SorcerersBone says... #21
Question, how does awaken interact with Jeskai Ascendancy? Does the Awakened land creature untap? My understanding is that it does not, but a man can dream.
September 19, 2015 6:51 p.m.
@ SorcerersBone the lands untap. After all they "become" 0/0 creatures. This means they would untap the same as Dryad Arbor.
September 19, 2015 6:54 p.m.
I can't wait to hear all the people saying how they quit magic because no Lightning Strike. Meanwhile I'll be capitalizing on the situation by prepping for all the Mantis Rider I'm sure to be seeing. (Current Aerial Volley kill count: 25 Thopters and 6 Mantis Riders.)
September 19, 2015 7:32 p.m.
I dont really care that red aggro is taking a hit. Now all we need is to slow down abzan a bit, but either way my grixis control deck will be prepared.
September 19, 2015 7:46 p.m.
SomethingRandom says... #26
kengiczar - I feel like putting tally marks on the card for each kill and keeping a contuous count would be hilarious
September 19, 2015 7:59 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #27
@ SomethingRandom I'm going to do that with my Disdainful Strokes and Horribly Awrys.
September 19, 2015 8:02 p.m.
SorcerersBone says... #28
Woah, if awaken does work that way, I've got a freaking sweet idea for an EDH deck. Might be too slow for standard, and definitely too slow for modern, but perfect for commander.
September 19, 2015 8:02 p.m.
Are you going to make all of your lands dudes and cast your whole deck and then swing @ people SorcerersBone? That's insanity!
@ SomethingRandom I wish I had done that. Right now I just make notes of it on my phones notepad app.
September 19, 2015 8:05 p.m.
SorcerersBone says... #30
Not quite, just a ton of awaken spells to make lands dudes and cast all spells for free.
September 19, 2015 8:46 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #31
I have always wondered: why does WotC reveal the entire contents of set an entire week before its prerelease? That gives players plenty of time to become familiar with the set and form strategies for the event. I believe that it would be better to maintain suspense and reveal the entire set only one or two days before the prerelease, so that players are more likely to be on equal ground at the event, due to having had less time to formulate strategies.
September 19, 2015 9:26 p.m.
OP_Magikarp says... #32
Everyone is still on equal ground. We all have the same time to look at the set. And it still depends on what you open. You could strategize all you want but it comes down to the decisions you make with cards you open on that day. I don't think it would be as fun or even strategy if I throw a ton of random cards together and not know what to expect at all from my opponent. Part of magic is being able to predict and outsmart your opponent.
September 19, 2015 9:43 p.m.
My feelings are similar to Magikarps. I know there are a lot of players out there who draft and want to start analyzing what draft will look like as soon as the whole set is spoiled. It's the same for pre-release, even if it's the only time we'll get 6 packs of BFZ. Bottom line is competitive limited players want information early and it doesn't hurt anybody to put the information out.
September 19, 2015 10:06 p.m.
OP_Magikarp says... #34
And the synergies and how actual cards play out is still a huge mystery. I can tell you that I never expected Hangarback Walker to be as good as it was until I played against it in prerelease. Everything is still fresh
September 19, 2015 10:11 p.m.
SomethingRandom says... #35
I have been staring at the BFZ spoilers for two days straight and still can't figure the set out.
September 19, 2015 11:10 p.m.
Programmer_112 says... #36
Pretty much, things are colorless, Eldrazi are weak, we can super-mill people, and allies. Also some color.
September 19, 2015 11:15 p.m.
I wouldn't say the eldrazi are weak... Grixis eldrazi seems fairly good in limited. Also, I only caught part of the match but I believe one of the magic developers was playing a really strong /
eldrazi deck. Just like always though, it depends on what you open.
I also think awaken is going to be huge in limited. I've done a couple of drafts on Cockatrice and it's definitely come into play. Also multi-color decks seem like the norm so it's probably going to be similar to Khans sealed where you run 17 or 18 lands to make sure you have proper color fixing. As this is limited, you'll typically get later into games so you tend to play a lot of land drops (not to mention any ramping). This means top decking a card with awaken late gives them a ton of extra value and you what is essentially a free creature.
My testing on cockatrice has been limited so far, but I've been unimpressed with the allies. I'm not sure if the decks just were not built properly or they didn't see the right cards, but in every game I've seen them, they absolutely had to win as fast as possible because they were easily outclassed in the late game.
September 19, 2015 11:43 p.m.
abenz419 - It's almost as if the Eldrazi are inevitable and hard to stop in gameplay without going under them. I wonder if they were designed that way! /s
September 19, 2015 11:46 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #40
What is everyone's overall feeling about the set, now that it is fully spoiled?
I'm a little underwhelmed, to be honest. I'm trying not to be super critical and keep an open perspective of it as a whole, but...it really doesn't pop for me the way I thought that it would have.
September 20, 2015 12:04 a.m.
I honestly find the set confusing. They've released a ton of high CMC cards and we have literal 1 ramp in the format in Explosive Vegetation, which is NOT something you can cast against any sort of aggro deck. I just think it's gonna be odd. Underwhelming is a good way to describe it.
September 20, 2015 12:09 a.m.
Well, I think it's obvious that that fits the story/theme. But what I was getting at is that there felt like there was only one option for allies, super aggressive. Either you had enough to support it or your ally deck was going to be too weak. Not to mention even a good ally deck could be slowed enough for their opponent to stabalize by running into someone with a decent amount of disruption. Also, being sealed lots of games will reach the later portions so the format doesn't really benefit the ally strategy either.
So it's like I said, from what I've seen played, I've been unimpressed with ally based strategies. I'm not saying it's impossible to open a good package of allies and have a strong deck, it just seems like you have to have extremely good pulls to be successful. Like, there's no middle ground or wiggle room for the deck. You either got it or you don't.
September 20, 2015 12:11 a.m.
@kyuuri117 in limited you'll be able to hit those higher cmc's fairly easy. It's going to be like Khans where you run an extra land or two than you normally would (18/40 cards as lands or almost 50%) so you'll hit more land drops. Plus there are a few things that fetch lands/produce mana/or make tokens that sac for mana in the set as well. While they're not all constructed playable, almost every single one of them is limited playable for sure. So casting a 5 drop that makes a couple scion tokens helps ramp you into those bigger eldrazi, or even casting one on turn 3 that makes a scion and another on turn 4 will help ramp you into a possible 7 drop on turn 5. You can't play the big ones consistently without support, but there really does seem to be quite a bit of it available in limited.
September 20, 2015 12:21 a.m.
SomethingRandom says... #44
I with kyuuri117 on the confused side.. Like what I'm seeing for standard play is either somehow get into big eldrazi's, UB control, play allies and hope that you can keep dropping them for the rally triggers, or play a tarkir deck with like 2 new cards in it... honestly until I start seeing decks and play I have no idea how this set is going to work.. It just seems way more focused on the story than the play, not a lot of room for variation or experimenting..
September 20, 2015 12:25 a.m.
SimicPower says... #45
Agreed, I was expecting some sort of better ramp spells in this set. Maybe Lotus Cobra?
September 20, 2015 12:33 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #46
"Confused" is a good word to describe my feelings about this set, actually.
As far as Limited is concerned, I think it's relatively straightforward. You go wide (weenies or Allies) or you go big (Eldrazi/huge stuff ramp). Maybe there's room for tempo-y Blue stuff, since it seems like it's buildable in draft.
As for Constructed Standard, though...I don't know what to think. The format is almost certainly going to slow down. A few current decks don't even lose much from rotation as it is, or can recover with relative ease. Hangarback Abzan has solid replacements for its rotating pieces (Rakshasa Deathdealer comes back in for Fleecemane Lion, for instance, while Bile Blight and Hero's Downfall are somewhat replaceable too). Mono-red loses a lot of burn with Lightning Strike and Stoke the Flames, but it still has a very viable creature strategy augmented by Wild Slash and Exquisite Firecraft. Temur midrange might have a resurgence. Sultai control might take advantage of Kiora, Master of the Depths.
Basically, I don't see many BFZ cards impacting Standard all that much. Maybe some RG landfall decks might start showing up. I've definitely thought about it.
The set as a whole doesn't get me that excited. It seems to lack inspiration and perhaps focus. Yeah, there are the Eldrazi, landfall, and Ally themes, but they seem to fall short of the ZEN block of old (and I don't mean in terms of card power, I just mean in terms of overall feel and execution -- set composition, you might say). Right now, I'll probably just grab the singles I need and just not worry about getting more than a couple fat packs (and that's just for the lands).
September 20, 2015 12:45 a.m.
SorcerersBone says... #47
These allies were clearly made for a limited/draft environment rather than a more competitive one. Old allies got exponentially better with more allies. These one only get multiplicatively better since none of them care about number of allies.
Dont get me wrong, they could still function in constructed phenomenally well if built right, but other than the RW legend ally, none of them stand out as being particularly strong.
The Vampire Ally subtheme is great. And I'm in love with Bloodbond Vampire <3 I've got her on the background of all my devices. But the flavor text, anyone bummed we didn't get a General Tazri card? Maybe we'll get it in Oath?
September 20, 2015 12:45 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #48
She might be in Oath as a legendary Ally creature. Not only would that be cool mechanically, but she's an interesting character and I feel she deserves a card.
September 20, 2015 12:49 a.m.
SomethingRandom says... #49
I'm hoping in time when the cards become more familiar they will find their place
September 20, 2015 12:52 a.m.
TheOne4221 says... #50
I've been thinking about a Mardu Ally deck once it hits. Awful lot of life gain involved with it through Kalastria Healer and Zulaport Cutthroat, as well as everyone getting lifelink from Lantern Scout.
I have but one discrepancy: I'm wondering if I should sub out Munda, Ambush Leader for Zada. Only buffs I'd run would be Tandem Tactics and Titan's Strength, so I'm not 100% sure Zada would be worth it. Not really enough room on the deck list unless I cut something else or go down to 20 lands, and I don't wanna go down to 20 lands.
SomethingRandom says... #1
working on a RW Allies deck that's pretty low budget, uses Flamerush Rider to copy Allies for the rally triggers, keep running into the problem of it being too slow though, that being said with allies that give menace and trample it can still get through mid-late game, but not as well as a GR deck could with bigger trample and menace things.
September 19, 2015 11:01 a.m.