Anybody else really disappointed in BotG?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Jan. 24, 2014, 1:36 a.m. by Arvail
Watching the set spoil a few cards at a time, I often found myself thinking 'don't worry, I'm sure they'll come up with something you'll like.' quite a bit. Never happened... Anyone feeling the same way?
As a lover of Greek Mythology and competitive magic I've been extremely disappointment with the entire block so far.
Flavor is great but I wanted more.
Oh, and I never thought I could get sick of Scrying, but Jesus Christ how many cards can we add "scry x" to in a set?
Although, because all I've done so far is whine, I will say I liked that Theros moved Standard away from aggro and towards control. It's nice to see control getting some love.
January 24, 2014 1:49 a.m.
Too many cards were made a lot worse and then had 'scry 1' tacked onto them.
January 24, 2014 2:14 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
As the above posters pointed out, cry seems to have been used as a bandage for underpowered cards.
Maybe the next block will have something that plays really well with topdeck manipulation.
January 24, 2014 2:22 a.m.
The Doctor says... #6
Honestly I think we were just spoiled by the Innistrad/RtR block combination.
January 24, 2014 2:30 a.m.
I do think that overall things have been slightly under whelming but then again we did have the amazingness of Innistrad and the over-hyped/slight disappointment of Return to Ravnica, but I'm with the other posters that Scry is ust on everything to make it seem (flavourful for oracles etc) but to aid as Epoc said underpowred cards. I am glad things in Standard have slowed down and moved more towards Control in terms of meta, but I really feel like it could've been so much more! As far an Born of the Gods goes what I have seen spoiled (granted not all due to work and stuff) seems like it's cool and flavourful, but could've been a bit better like Kiora, the Crashing Wave maybe even the ally gods. The new mechanics seem interesting, I like this Tribute and Inspired thing. I'm hoping Journey into Nyx does this block justice and gives it one helluva a bang, kinda almost what Avacyn Restored did. Though I was personally spoiled rotten by the SOM/ISD Standard (when I played lol)
January 24, 2014 2:38 a.m.
A fair point. Those two blocks gave us a lot of competitive playable cards. Maybe they just raised the bar too high.
Snapcaster Mage , Deathrite Shaman , Thundermaw Hellkite , Geist of Saint Traft , Abrupt Decay , Sphinx's Revelation , etc.
January 24, 2014 2:39 a.m.
solkanarswampking says... #9
I think The Doctor is right, we were spoiled by Innistrad and RTR. I do like the Gods. The multicolor cards so far go great with Ravnica cards and the duel lands are decent. I really miss the M2013/Innistrad duel lands though, they were balanced and worked great with the shock lands. I was surprised when M2014 didn't have M10 and Innistrad duel lands.
January 24, 2014 3:01 a.m.
solkanarswampking says... #10
Oh and good job with Tribute, I really that mechanic.
January 24, 2014 3:04 a.m.
solkanarswampking the reason why the core check lands weren't reprinted was because Wizards wanted to slow down the current standard and the synergy between Shocks and Checks was extreme. As for the ISD Checks I think those are flavourfully kept on Innistard for the time being, we might as some point get enemy coloured checks again or something similar, but those really couldn't have been reprinted anywhere else. Isolated Chapel Hinterland Harbor Clifftop Retreat all are key places/pieces of flavour from Innistard
January 24, 2014 3:07 a.m.
Some1TookMyName says... #12
I guess from someone who didnt play until theros, I can see how it lacks or where everyone is coming from and why I feel like its not a big deal from my POV. Even though I just play standard. I still bought cards and drafted a bunch from the Innistrad block bc it was cool and fun.
January 24, 2014 3:14 a.m.
I am rather disappointed in the next set, in order for any deck to be good its got to have a dumb ass god with serious devotion to it. Wizards was like lets keep these gods rolling out. How many people are going to play colors just for a god. And the other thing that I find terrible is the cards that grant all your creatures (fly,trample, first strike, hexproof, etc) and opponents creatures lose theirs and are not allowed to gain these abilities. What kind of bull shizer is that? Its going to be iffy if I don't skip this set. Losing the faith WOTC.
January 24, 2014 3:22 a.m.
Gild ugh....so bad. That might just me thinking that, but ugh as a rare?! UGH!
January 24, 2014 4:09 a.m.
Yea, a bit disappointed too. then again, it's 165 cards and MaRo specifically telling people that they want to turn the tempo down. hopefully, a Roman Mythology theme block will be...faster and grittier.
was also hoping for something like Phyrexian mana. the shock/sacrifice part would've fit very well flavor-wise
January 24, 2014 4:17 a.m.
SwiftDeath says... #16
This set was disappointing. In every set I have seen at least one or two cards that gave the impression "I really want to play this card" I didn't see a single card like that for me in BotG. I know some people are all about Kiora and even Pain Seer is seeing some love from the community (no pun intended), I just don't see either card making a huge impact. The seer has to live for 2 turns and an attack (if we remember how over hyped Blood Scrivener was) I just don't see this happening consistently enough for him to warrant a spot in the current format. Then Kiora has to live passed your opponents combat and hope to not see Hero's Downfall if she ever wants to ult and even then her best ability and only real usable one IMO is her -1 Explore .
January 24, 2014 4:19 a.m.
Blood Scrivener to me isn't terrible. I've got a deck Insirelum. I mean, the deck isn't awesome or anything, but Scrivener is just a niche card. You can't just throw it into any ole' deck.
January 24, 2014 4:37 a.m.
Izanagi_Deus says... #18
There are a lot of interesting and flavorful cards in BNG. I think I'll enjoy the set from a limited standpoint. As far as constructed goes, I'll likely be sitting out of Standard for a while as I've found it stagnant the past few months and not much in this set really appears likely to cause a tremendous shift in my local meta (beyond further strengthening the horde of mono-B decks running around) There are of course some EDH goodies that I'll enjoy tinkering around with, but that's almost always the case with a new set.
January 24, 2014 4:43 a.m.
I play Legacy and Vintage. I get excited if there's at least one playable card in any set. WotC had me at Spirit of the Labyrinth .
January 24, 2014 4:54 a.m.
Flavourwise I think Theros and BOTG have both been awesome. But I agree with a lot of people who've said that BOTG has been kind of underwhelming. None of the cards have really jumped out at me as something I want to play. Theres some nice stuff for EDH, the tribute minotaur that lets you play instants and sorceries seems cool, but not competitive, and I'm not a huge fan of the mechanics. I like Scry, but it feels like there aren't very many good scry cards, and most of them are just junk. Hopefully we get something really cool soon.
On the other hand, draft looks extremely fun. :D
January 24, 2014 6:26 a.m.
thataddkid says... #21
I like the limited game very much right now, but since my local shop usually does constructed the set is a bit disappointing. I'm only looking to fit 2 cards into my RDW, Flame-Wreathed Phoenix , and Searing Blood . I like the red 3-drop with 1U: Scry 1 for combo pieces though.
January 24, 2014 6:36 a.m.
I'm on the fence on Flame-Wreathed Phoenix , it is a really good card, but I feel that it is mostly good for Standard. Chandra's Phoenix is, in my opinion, hands down better. Tribute is a really cool ability though, I like the "choice" cards, because the choice is usually a bad bargain one way or the other: Browbeat and Choice of Damnations come to mind. But yeah so if they take the Tribute you get a 5/5 flier for 4 without haste. But if they don't you get a 3/3 for 4 with the "Phoenix" ability. I just feel that Chandra's Phoenix sits better. I'm also not a competitive player, as all my decks will tell you, so I might have a slanted point of view.
January 24, 2014 6:54 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #23
In general, I am a little disappointed. The new mechanics in particular seem to be underwhelming. Tribute is just terrible from a deckbuilding perspective since all the power is in your opponent's hands (and, in many cases, you don't end up with incredible value if it's paid). Inspired could have been cool, but too many of the cards require a cost to be paid to activate them, and there aren't many playable ways to get the creatures tapped if attacking isn't an option.
However, there are some very cool and playable cards in the set:
-Most of the Gods are playable, and will inspire some cool archetypes (Phenax, God of Deception should spawn some mill decks), and Xenagos, God of Revels is a house.
-Brimaz, King of Oreskos should make White Weenies and MWD much more viable.
-Acolyte's Reward is also big boost to MWD.
-The Archetype cycle is generally pretty good, even tho almost all are pretty weak vs. control.
-I think Bestow is an underrated mechanic due to the horribleness of the Theros bunch, and we got some good new options: Herald of Torment , Eidolon of Countless Battles , Spiteful Returned , Everflame Eidolon , and you know there will be some Chromanticore decks going around.
-Drown in Sorrow is good enough to be a devastating sideboard, but Weenie players can rejoice that it won't destroy their dreams.
-Spirit of the Labyrinth looks to be an all-star in Eternal formats tho underwhelming in Standard; it's almost this block's Deathrite Shaman in that regard
-Vortex Elemental should see plenty of play in both Spike and Johnny fashions.
-Courser of Kruphix is a fantastic card; usually "topdeckers" like him are way overcosted.
-Don't overlook Hunter's Prowess , which gives Green a legitimate source of draw power not named Garruk.
-Sanguimacy gives Black a way to draw a bunch at once instead of chipping away with Underworld Connections .
-Gild gives MBD an answer to Gods, which might stop them from getting schooled by MUD.
-Despite my previous Inspired hate, Satyr Nyx-Smith should keep control players awake at night, and Pain Seer is pretty awesome as well.
-Last but not least, I just love the flavor of Raised by Wolves
January 24, 2014 7:07 a.m.
Quadsimotto says... #24
I like the set but am disappointed that only one measly plainswalker and came out of it. I see a good deal of really useful cards in the set. I am only disappointed in the high CMC of a lot of the cards i do like from the set.
January 24, 2014 7:43 a.m.
Dalektable says... #25
As a whole, yes it has been overall pretty disappointing. But on the other hand what i've been looking out for is cards to go into my White Weenies deck i run and this set has given me some pretty nice options. Also, like everyone else, i absolutely have adored the theros block artwork and flavor. I practically threw a party when i heard theros block would be greek mythology themed.
January 24, 2014 8:12 a.m.
Maybe I'm just biased because none of the good cards really interest me. I'll probably have Drown in Sorrow in MBD, and theres an enchantment creature for my Nekusar. But they're both cards that are strong that I should play. Theres nothing in the set that I'm really excited to play with, its all kind of meh.
January 24, 2014 9:06 a.m.
Personally, I look at the cards and see what they can do for my decks, current meta in all formats, including edh/commander, redefine/change the meta in all formats and how well it can/should do in limited play. The cards that get me excited are the ones that change meta's. The rest I take as they are and I'm hardly ever let down or worried about 'how bad this card is'.
January 24, 2014 9:11 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin tribute is a good mechanic and has a great enabler in the current standard, Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch . She'll make people consider to pay the tribute or not really hard. While I'm not excited by the cards that have tribute, they are high cmc for the most part, I can see her, the unleashed creatures from rtr doing something interesting with the Flame-Wreathed Phoenix . Though I think this would be more of a 'thing' if the tribute cards where lower at 2/3cmc and 1 counter with a fun effect. At this point though, Stormbreath Dragon is still better than the phoenix.
January 24, 2014 9:17 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #29
I'm acually not very disappointed in the set. Yes, the Spike in me is crying a bit about the lack of immediate card bombs that I can slide into my existing decks, but my inner Johnny and my being such a janky deckbuilder makes me excited to make brand-new builds that make the rejects of the block into Desceptively good cards. And Limited is going to be soooooo fun. The set's artwork is so beautiful too; I want so many playsets of cards in foil.
January 24, 2014 9:30 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #30
ABSOLUTELY NOT. I am way more excited for BNG than I was for Theros! I feel like NOW we get the whole "enchantment-based block" feel going on, and there are tons of cards for EDH with plenty for standard and maybe even a few for modern/legacy/vintage.
Since modern/legacy/vintage will only use the best cards, I want to say which cards I think MAY be used in these formats:
Spirit of the Labyrinth , Archetype of Agression (shown below), Eye Gouge , Bile Blight , Searing Blood , Drown in Sorrow , Flame-Wreathed Pheonix, Pain Seer , Kiora, the Crashing Wave , Fated Infatuation , Satyr Firedancer , Vortex Elemental , and Brimaz, King of Oreskos .
If any card from this set excites you, it should be one of those. (Unless you're more of an EDH player, in which case, there are different cards that would excite you.)
January 24, 2014 9:48 a.m.
It has been a bit disappointing. I'll hold off any bashing or berating until Journey into Nyx. So far, the set is mechanically... decent... But I think it could have been better. Lore-wise, I'm a bit underwhelmed right now. It feels like a copy-paste of Greek mythology meets Final Fantasy 6.
January 24, 2014 9:54 a.m.
RokuganiPimp says... #32
Mostly it's terrible. There's a handful of okay cards and they've mostly been mentioned already.
I think Oreskos Sun Guide is actually good.
Chromanticore is neat but wont see play in standard because there isn't enough in terms of mana diversity to get him out.
Overall very underpowered and disappointing.
Devotion to white will be able to compete against the others now.
The big winner though is black. So get ready for mono black and orzho to be even more in contro of the environment. Hooray.
All in all EDH did the best with this set and got a lot of fun toys.
January 24, 2014 9:56 a.m.
Yes! Besides a few temples the only card I like is Kiora as a Bant control finisher !
January 24, 2014 9:58 a.m.
RokuganiPimp says... #35
To disagree with almost everyone in the thread I think a few reasons and examples are in order. I'd love to be sold on why this set is good cause I'm pretty bummed.
January 24, 2014 10:12 a.m.
Hey guys, at least it is better than Dark Ascension... :/
January 24, 2014 10:15 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #37
@gufymike: Somehow, I doubt that a 2-color Legendary 4-drop will be the saving grace of the Tribute mechanic (especially since Ogre Battledriver , Hammer of Purphoros , and Xenagos, God of Revels are all better cards). If the options available to your opponent were both tough to swallow, it would be good, but with the exceptions of Flame-Wreathed Phoenix (who as you said is a downgrade from Stormbreath Dragon ) and Nessian Wilds Ravager (still rather go with Kalonian Hydra for trample), what you're getting is a slight bargain at best if it's paid.
The only card I can think of with a unique ability that might really make it tough for them to decide is Corpsejack Menace .
January 24, 2014 10:19 a.m.
exarkun809 says... #38
Ya, I think you guys are crazy. This set looks amazing. The number of uncommons that are crazy powerful is more than I've ever seen. Maybe from a standard constructed perspective there aren't format changing cards like in large sets, but for limited... I'm super pumped. And I think once RTR rotates out constructed will change immensely.
January 24, 2014 10:29 a.m.
SharuumNyan says... #39
I've been underwhelmed with Standard recently too, and I've been concentrating more on Modern and EDH. But I'm actually excited for BotG! Just like any other set, some people love it and some people hate it. And there will always be that handful of people who declare every set ruins the game and they'll never play again (but always do).
I like this set because even though there aren't a lot of Standard playable cards, it's opening up lots of new deck archetypes in Standard. Mono-white, Selesnya, and hopefully Bant will all be playable. I got so sick of showing up at FNM and having to play 2 MBD decks every time. Boring!
Oreskos Sun Guide and Archangel of Thune in Mono-white seems good. And Glimpse the Sun God gives you a reason to tap Oreskos without attacking. Not sure if these are Standard worthy, but there sure are some interesting interactions in this set.
January 24, 2014 10:46 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #40
Born of the Gods rules. I like it even better than Theros, and I like Theros a lot.
January 24, 2014 10:54 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #41
I feel that this set was created with Johnnys in mind. I'm going absolutely nuts over the number of things that are available now with BNG out. Also, After a quick count, I only saw about 2-3 Vanilla creatures. That means about 160 new cards with new abilities that I can work with.
I feel like after the pro tour, there's going to be another new deck that everyone's going to flock to because they totally missed it in spoiler season, then everyone's opinions on BNG will change.
But yeah, i'm excited for the new set. I'm going to be trying to make inspired work, somehow.
January 24, 2014 11:07 a.m.
RokuganiPimp says... #42
Pretty much everyone saying they like Born aren't giving any good examples or reasons why it's any good. Hmmmmm...
January 24, 2014 12:02 p.m.
SharuumNyan says... #43
RokuganiPimp many people have given reasons why it's good. Top reason for me is that it will diversify the Standard, bring in more deck archetypes, and make the game more interesting. Several others have mentioned the number of great EDH cards in this set. Other people like the new mechanics.
How many reasons do you need?
January 24, 2014 12:11 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #44
I like the flavor, artwork, and limited should be awesome. So many playable cards at the uncommon rarity. The decks I am playing got enough new toys to play with. A lot of money cards? No, but there are a few. Thumbs up from me.
January 24, 2014 12:12 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #45
I will admit, actually, that this isn't the best set that i've ever seen. However, I can describe BNG in 5 words.
Strictly better than Dragon's Maze.
January 24, 2014 12:14 p.m.
people on page 1 were disappointed with theros, and used the power of innistrad/rtr blocks as a reason why theros is underwhelming.
inni/rav had the best fixing in the history of magic. it was magical christmasland for playing 3+ color decks, and that will very rarely, if ever, happen again. it isn't normal magic. the color pie exists for a reason, in that you need to pick what your deck does best and minimize its weaknesses. playing 3+ colors makes it a lot easier to play strong decks with limited downside.
theros gave birth to mono u and mono b decks. so its impact on standard doesn't need to be argued. according to mtgtop8.com, Hero's Downfall , Thoughtseize , Temple of Deceit , Temple of Silence , and Pack Rat make up 5 of the top 10 played cards in standard. The metagame shifted to make room for mono b and mono u, and it will shift again with the release of botg. that's how it always works, and is the point of releasing a new set every 3-4 months (other than cashmoney $$$). That's what makes standard interesting.
i'm not going to comb through the whole spoiler and cut and paste cardnames that everyone should play in standard. i would bet that at least a few botg cards will be in tourney winning or metagame defining decks.
botg also excites me for limited. as exarkun809 stated, the uncommons look bonkers, so i think the first 2-3 picks of each draft will give you a strong archetype to draft towards. there is also lower costed removal, so hopefully losing to t1 dude, t2 ordeal won't be as common. i want to see how the cycles of uncommon inspired token producers and common french vanilla bestow creatures pan out. there are a few cards that give the opponent a choice that i love Browbeat , Vexing Devil and a few that i think are bad. i'm interested to see where the tribute cards end up.
i'm excited to see someone get blown out by Spirit of the Labyrinth when they try to Brainstorm eot in legacy.
either way, i'm happy to be optimistic about the set. if you think it sucks, we'll see how you feel after playing with it. if you still think it sucks after playing with it, then no one else can tell you different. your opinion is your opinion. i hated gatecrash when it was spoiled and ended up hating drafting with it, too. There were still plenty of standard impacting cards. and i still hate planeswalkers, but that's my opinion, and no amount of arguing will change it. it's more fun to be excited than prematurely disappointed.
January 24, 2014 12:26 p.m.
also i agree the art looks sweet. the art and flavor behind Forlorn Pseudamma already gives me the heebie jeebies.
look at it! it's a zombie that steals children and turns them into zombies! who comes up with this stuff!?
January 24, 2014 12:29 p.m.
SharuumNyan says... #48
ThatBlueMage but Dragon's Maze did give us Voice of Resurgence (IMO one of the best cards of the last five years), AEtherling , and Blood Baron of Vizkopa . The rest kinda sucked though.
January 24, 2014 12:31 p.m.
RokuganiPimp says... #49
I'm looking for reasons beyond what is apparent. It does seem obvious that Devotion to White will be able to keep up in competitive standard now (maybe).
But RDW and Devotion to Black got a huge boost over anything else. DtB already is a dominating force in standard and did we really need to see RDW return to controlthings?
In competitive standard I dont see anything changing except DtB getting even harder to beat, Devotion to White becoming a thing, and RDW (yawn) making a come back.
So what were going to see is the same 3 or 4 decks we've been seeing for months just get stronger and control the environment even more. That makes for boring standard play, and whether players like to admit it or not, standard is what sets are really designed for.
Born needed some new elements to shake things up which it is pretty much lacking.
I did say though that EDH did get a lot of fun toys in a response further up.
January 24, 2014 12:33 p.m.
RokuganiPimp says... #50
A couple notes: I don't think it sucks I just don't think it's going to change anything.
And Theros was a fantastic set that really did change the face of standard magic. Born is lacking that. Now I known supposed to be an extension of Theros in that it augments it, but it should have also given players a lot ore options and I don't feel it did that much at all.
I could end up eating my words, but I don't see standard changing much at all. I don't see anything that will slow down mono black, mono blue, esper, and orzhov. And RDW will return. Again yay. /sarcasm.
Lastly: yes the flavor is fun but the flavor for me is always very secondary to game play.
Some1TookMyName says... #2
define like? the flavor is awesome. some the art or abilities are cool. some seem like theyll make it in formats outside of standard, it is only 165 cards. Anything Im going to use in my standard deck (that id like to build / junk).. nope. But I wouldnt feel disappointed. JOU will have a lot of answers for me.
January 24, 2014 1:41 a.m.