April 2016: Shadows over Innistrad
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Oct. 31, 2015, 6:42 p.m. by JWiley129
Announced during GP Indy, the Spring 2016 set is Shadows over Innistrad!
Edits for FAQ:
- Here is Mark Rosewater on why we're getting two returns in a row.
JWiley129 Ah I see what you mean from your edit with that Gatherer page.
So since the transform is not clarified as trigger able only once, the successive triggers remain on the stack I'm guessing? Though in this case the multiple flips don't really do anything.
An odd ruling considering the ability specifically says "Transform Bloodline Keeper" which he ceases to be after the first transform.
I guess this will remain to be seen once Avacyn is added to Gatherer.
March 6, 2016 3:29 p.m.
K guys so i figured out the combo
all in all, assuming theyre at 20 life, you need to have 9 creatures die. so: you have Nantuko Husk and 6 other little dudes from whatever - Sac 1 to husk and husk to itself - trigger avacyn. opponent goes to 17, kills the other 5. Flash in Vile Redeemer, spawns 7 scions. Sac all of them. that triggers avacyn 4 times, and ends off at the flipped version. Puts opponent to 5 life, swing with the 6/5 beater. GG
March 6, 2016 3:30 p.m.
March 6, 2016 3:32 p.m.
HighDragon.PKMN says... #5
Phaetion so what happens when you breed a dog and Cthulu? Dogthulu?
March 6, 2016 3:38 p.m.
someone else work out the kinks of my combo and make sure it works pls. I really want this to be a thing
March 6, 2016 3:38 p.m.
Ashockfan: The combo works like that. When you play Avacyn, sac X creatures to Nantuko Husk. Say you sacrifice 13 creatures, she will trigger 13 times. that means it'll look like this one the stack:
Avacyn, the Purifier deals 3 damage to each creature and each opponent
Archangel Avacyn
Avacyn, the Purifier deals 3 damage to each creature and each opponent
Archangel Avacyn
Avacyn, the Purifier deals 3 damage to each other creature and each opponent
Archangel Avacyn
Avacyn, the Purifier deals 3 damage to each other creature and each opponent
Archangel Avacyn
Avacyn, the Purifier deals 3 damage to each other creature and each opponent
Archangel Avacyn
Avacyn, the Purifier deals 3 damage to each other creature and each opponent
Archangel Avacyn
Avacyn, the Purifier deals 3 damage to each other creature and each opponent
This will deal a total of 21 damage to every other creature, but also to each opponent kill the opponent(s). This is why I believe the rules will be changed so that you will need a spell or ability (or the card to have a way) to flip the creature back to its original form.
March 6, 2016 3:58 p.m.
So really you only need 9 creatures to die and just swing for 6 with Avacyn, the Purifier, 13 creatures will kill your opponent through just straight damage with no combat.
March 6, 2016 4:01 p.m.
im going to make two takes on avacyn in standard: eldrazi scions or abzan tokens/aristocrats
March 6, 2016 4:02 p.m.
so this works
all in all, assuming theyre at 20 life, you need to have 9 creatures die. so: you have Nantuko Husk and 6 other little dudes from whatever - Sac 1 to husk and husk to itself - trigger avacyn. opponent goes to 17, kills the other 5. Flash in Vile Redeemer, spawns 7 scions. Sac all of them. that triggers avacyn 4 times, and ends off at the flipped version. Puts opponent to 5 life, swing with the 6/5 beater. GG
March 6, 2016 4:06 p.m.
Here we go:
711.11. When a double-faced permanent transforms, it doesnt become a new object. Any effects that applied to that permanent will continue to apply to it after it transforms.
Example: An effect gives Village Ironsmith (the front face of a double-faced card) +2/+2 until end of turn and then Village Ironsmith transforms into Ironfang. Ironfang will continue to get +2/+2 until end of turn.
Man that is tricky!
March 6, 2016 4:11 p.m.
Ashockfan No. Avacyn flips during the beginning of the next upkeep so you'll need to have everything die during the previous turn. If you cast Avacyn one turn. You can sac all the creatures to Husk during that turn's end step. This will cause the triggers to go off during the very next upkeep (since she has Flash, she probably will be played on opponents turn so you can swing during your turn). If anything dies during the upkeep Avacyn is going off; they will not trigger her until the next upkeep and only if she saw them die as Archangel Avacyn.
March 6, 2016 4:12 p.m.
Oh so we would have to wait a turn. OR we could just flash in a second avacyn in response to the first trigger and then just sac everything again right?
March 6, 2016 4:25 p.m.
Flashing in a 2nd Avacyn does nothing but stop the original one from killing your creatures. In order to use Vile Redeemer effectively, you'll need to have Avacyn played and than pass through your next upkeep without her flipping and flip her during the upkeep after that. I see no need for Vile Redeemer unless you were short a few creatures. Most likely they already took some damage by turn 5-6 so really if 9 creatures is enough to have 15 damage done, if they took some early damage, really you would only need to sacrifice 5-7 creatures to deal 9 or 12 damage and swing at them with Avacyn, the Purifier.
March 6, 2016 4:36 p.m.
IzzetGod sure. But do you think there will be some sort combo deck based around her will be a thing? or is she just gonna get plugged in to some sort of normal deck?
March 6, 2016 4:51 p.m.
IzzetGod heres a thought:
Deck: Standard BW Avacyn Combo/Control
By Ashockfan
Card Name Main
Duress 2
Topplegiest 2
Heir Of Falkenwrath 4
Declaration in Stone 4
Liliana, Heretical Healer Flip 2
Archangel Avacyn 4
March 6, 2016 4:58 p.m.
Ashockfan I expect a rule change so that isn't abused. Other than that, I'll probably player her as 1 or 2 of in a Bant Flash deck. Other decks, I have no idea.
March 6, 2016 4:58 p.m.
That turned out messy... lets clean it up
BW Avacyn Combo/Control Show
March 6, 2016 5:01 p.m.
sure. But how does something like the above look? it seems to me that this could be a real thing, as the deck can kill out of nowhere but is in no way reliant on the combo
March 6, 2016 5:03 p.m.
As I think the rules will be changed, there will really be no combo except the fact that you can just flip Avacyn and kill them with 3 damage. No different than killing someone with Lightning Bolt. I can't really see that working. Wait until more spoilers are released.
March 6, 2016 5:10 p.m.
At least you can still use Eldrazi Displacer to flicker avacyn in response to her face down side triggered ability making your stuff indestructable.
March 6, 2016 5:34 p.m.
Isn't anybody else excited for Noire Jace? He got the detective jacket and is solving the mystery! Like Scooby-Doo.
March 6, 2016 7:20 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #25
He looks like a normal 20 year old. It's a little weird.
March 6, 2016 7:21 p.m.
Well, if Jace isn't going to fall off a mountain and die or something, I can get behind him turning into a faux Harry Dresden.
March 6, 2016 7:37 p.m.
Guftders: Runo, whether he likes it or not, will be needed for his past. And guess who is most likely going to ask him?
March 6, 2016 7:52 p.m.
CheeseBro - I literally just lol'd and my wife looked at me like I'm crazy.
March 6, 2016 8:04 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #32
Kroto it was planned out all along. Avacyn working all too well with the Eldrazi.
Cthulhuvacyn...
March 6, 2016 9:11 p.m.
Avacyn is not on the list.. Is the list fake, or are there more than 24 flip cards?
March 6, 2016 9:44 p.m. Edited.
Nightdragon779 says... #34
Ok, so I've heard many rumors and predictions about Emrakul being in SOI or Eldritch Moon, the second set of the block. To clarify, Eldritch does not mean eldrazi, it means eerie or spooky.
Now that we're returning to Innistrad, Tamiyo should play a big role. I love tamiyo, but she has a journal. The only other character ever to have a journal was Venser, and he died. :/ This journal stuff may be irrelevant though.
Look at the art for Endless Ranks of the Dead. Then look at the art for relentless dead. Then look at the art for shard of broken glass.
Brain in a jar looks fun for EDH, the "AEther Vial" of instants and sorceries.
These are just some things I noticed about the set spoiled so far.
March 6, 2016 9:48 p.m.
AwesomeName says... #35
smackjack It's most likely not fake, seeing as we already have officially spoiled cards that are included on that list. If you look at the bottom it says "CH1". There's probably a "CH2" with all the rare and mythic flip cards, such as Avacyn and the werewolf walker.
March 6, 2016 9:49 p.m. Edited.
Nightdragon779 says... #36
Sorry for double post. See the guy on the art for pore over the pages and pieces of the puzzle is the same, which means he might play an important part in the storyline. Anyone know who he is?
March 6, 2016 9:49 p.m.
AwesomeName says... #38
@Nightdragon779, That's Jace...
Yeah, he finally got new clothes. That's probably why you didn't recognize him at first.
March 6, 2016 9:52 p.m. Edited.
TheFoilAjani says... #44
VampireArmy While I get your intent, I'm just imagining Jace and Lili are in, like, a WWE match, and Jace flips off the top rope and someone yells, "It, looks like, some sort 'a, Sidewalk Shlam!"
March 7, 2016 12:18 a.m.
Where is our Legendary 
Werewolf!?
Where is the Werewolf Planeswalker card at!?
March 7, 2016 12:45 a.m.
EverythingIsK says... #47
The above checklist card is legit, as heir of falkenrath was spoiled officially, and is on the list, as well as another card that was leaked from the pack that was opened from said leak.
March 7, 2016 1:08 a.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #48
NarejED Ayup. Also, look up Cameron from LRR on Desert Bus 9 read JCena's theme. So soothing.
Checklist specs (mostly comments);
I really like one of the pun cards on the checklist; "Univited Geist" sniggles. Also, "Skin Invasion" (What the actual F*ck) is red, and "Kindly Stranger" is black, despite the fact it should at least start out white. "Convicted Killer" is red for some reason, even though it's traditionally black's thing. "Autumnal Gloom" isn't even a creature, and "Lambholt Pacifist" should probably be White (is there some weird Future Sight color pie stuff happening?). Finally, is "Harvest Hand" a scarecrow? Scarecrow tribal incoming :3.
March 7, 2016 1:23 a.m.
Grantley91 says... #49
I'm just interested in artifact flips. They're usually cooler than creature flips (just look at Elbrus...).
March 7, 2016 1:37 a.m.
I would freak if there were any scarecrows in this set.
JWiley129 says... #1
GearNoir - I literally linked it above.
March 6, 2016 3:22 p.m.