April 2016: Shadows over Innistrad

Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum

Posted on Oct. 31, 2015, 6:42 p.m. by JWiley129

Announced during GP Indy, the Spring 2016 set is Shadows over Innistrad!

Teaser Video

Edits for FAQ:

Here is Mark Rosewater on why we're getting two returns in a row.

Shadows over Innistrad Trailer

Shadows over Innistrad Card Image Gallery

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GoldGhost012 says... #1

This is going to be the playmat for GP Toronto.

March 18, 2016 5:03 p.m.

maiden77 says... #2

EDH cubes are the best non-booster draft :-P haha

March 18, 2016 5:29 p.m.

Bellock86 says... #4

GoldGhost012 - my that's loverly. Fiery Temper's new art is pretty cool to me. I wanna see it and Archangel Avacyn in foil.

March 18, 2016 5:37 p.m.

KingTorg1 says... #5

MindAblaze

I will never buy commons or uncommons on Ebay ever again.

EVER.

March 18, 2016 6:05 p.m.

MindAblaze says... #6

Oh don't worry, I'd never do that with real cards, just the cellophane packaging...

March 18, 2016 8:13 p.m.

CheeseBro says... #8

From the Wizards Website under SOI story:

EPISODE 04: SACRIFICE

Miles from Stensia, in the Nephalian highlands, something crawls to the surface of dark Lake Zhava.

March 18, 2016 10:50 p.m.

CheeseBro says... #9

From the Wizards Website under SOI story:

EPISODE 04: SACRIFICE

Miles from Stensia, in the Nephalian highlands, something crawls to the surface of dark Lake Zhava.

Gitrog Toad Hype!!!!

March 18, 2016 10:50 p.m.

CheeseBro says... #10

From the Wizards Website under SOI story:

EPISODE 04: SACRIFICE

Miles from Stensia, in the Nephalian highlands, something crawls to the surface of dark Lake Zhava.

Gitrog Toad Hype!!!!

March 18, 2016 10:50 p.m.

GITROG TOAD HYPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

March 18, 2016 10:54 p.m.

Nightdragon779 says... #14

Fiery Temper's art - When you're LIT on fire

March 18, 2016 11:18 p.m.

GoldGhost012 says... #15

Avacyn: Light em up up up, light em up, light em up up up

Human: I'm on fire!

Avacyn, the Purifier confirmed a fan of Fall Out Boy.

March 18, 2016 11:34 p.m. Edited.

Argy says... #16

Hope this hasn't been said but I'm not reading through 47 pages of Comments.

T1: Evolving Wilds. Tap and sac on Opponent's end step for a Plains.

T2: Land, Bonded Construct, Stoneforge Acolyte

T3: Attack with both Creatures. Kill Bonded Construct with Immolating Glare

You now have Delerium: Land, Artifact, Creature, Instant

March 19, 2016 midnight

jchudz says... #17

or, you could just Altar's Reap the construct... or a Hangarback Walker and get 2 cards and 2 thopters out of the deal

March 19, 2016 12:36 a.m.

Argy says... #18

Even better.

March 19, 2016 12:48 a.m.

GoldGhost012 says... #19

"Corrupted Tombstone"

Artifact

Rare

Corrupted Tombstone enters the battlefield tapped.

T: Choose a card in your graveyard. Add one mana of that card's color to your mana pool.

Image

March 19, 2016 3:41 a.m.

MagicalHacker says... #20

It seems interesting, but I'm not a fan of having to wait for my mana rocks to go online. Lol

March 19, 2016 8:45 a.m.

ChiefBell says... #21

Most reasonable mana rocks only come online turn 3. Chromatic Lantern, Boros Signet etc, Boros Cluestone etc., Abzan Banner etc.

The common thread is that they're only really usable on T3

March 19, 2016 9:17 a.m.

EpicFreddi says... #22

ChiefBell he just wants a standard solring, that's all.

March 19, 2016 9:27 a.m.

KingTorg1 says... #24

Is legendary a type? Is so, things like Bident of Thassa could be quite useful.

p.s. Gatherer says it is.

March 19, 2016 9:40 a.m.

CheeseBro says... #25

KingTorg oh yeah! i forgot about legendary. so would tribal and snow work too?

March 19, 2016 9:42 a.m.

square711 says... #26

Nope, legendary isn't a type.

205.2a The card types are artifact, conspiracy, creature, enchantment, instant, land, phenomenon, plane, planeswalker, scheme, sorcery, tribal, and vanguard. See section 3, Card Types.

March 19, 2016 9:42 a.m.

KingTorg1 says... #28

Going off of Gatherer, yes. So would "basic".

March 19, 2016 9:45 a.m.

square711 says... #29

Legendary and snow are supertypes (like the "basic" on "basic land"). Thus, they don't count towards delirium, Tarmogoyf p/t, etc.

March 19, 2016 9:45 a.m.

square711 says... #31

It should be, but it's not. No idea why WotC decided to make it a regular type.

March 19, 2016 9:49 a.m.

KingTorg1 says... #32

Wasn't Delerium supposed to be an easy mechanic?

March 19, 2016 9:49 a.m.

It's actually not that complicated. Many of the existing card types are exclusively in formats such as Planechase, so you can forget about them for the most part. Just memorize the eight main types - creature, artifact, enchantment, land, instant, sorcery, planeswalker and (for whatever reason) tribal - and ignore the rest.

March 19, 2016 9:53 a.m.

EverythingIsK says... #35

Here's a long Q&A of the tribal debate Show

Q: Why is it that tribal is a type and not a supertype like legendary? Since it is an adjective, and because it seems more like an augmentation of the original card than an actual type of card, it seems strange and a little awkward to fit it as a type. Does this mean there will be tribal cards that are just tribal, or will they be like Bound in Silence, alterations of existing noncreature card types that allow them to have creature types? On that note, why did Bound in Silence have to be tribal at all? Why not just make it an Enchantment Rebel Aura? Why can't the rebel subtype be used on noncreatures? Jacob, Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

A: From Kelly Digges, Magic editor: Rulesmeister Mark Gottlieb is out today tending his wombats, so I'll field your questions, which have appeared in the Ask Wizards box... oh, let's say "a few times."

Fair warning, thoughthe following is a feast for Melvin, and not for the faint of heart.

I'll start with the last question. Why was Tribal necessary at all? Why not just print an enchantment with the Rebel and Aura subtypes? That single card might seem innocuous, but the deeper issue here has to do with some very important rules that prevent some very silly things. See, rule 205.3d in the Comprehensive Rules states thatstop me if you've heard this oneeach card type has its own possible list of subtypes, except for two pairs of types that share their list of subtypes. One such pair is instant and sorcery, allowing both of those to be Arcane; the other is creature and tribal.

If 205.3d didn't exist, we'd have a lot more freedom in adding subtypes to things. Instead of Arcane, we could have just made instants and sorceries that were Spirits! (That's ignoring the obvious problems that arise with splice.) Of course, we can't just have a generic list of subtypes, because it seems clear that Imagecrafter shouldn't turn things into Shrines or Equipment. So we could just define "creature types" as those subtypes that have been printed on a creature, right? (Well, or given to a creature, or created as a creature token...) That way Volrath's Laboratory can't make Forests. Oh, wait, crud, what about Dryad Arbor and Life and Limb? Now Mistform Ultimus taps for , because Forest has been printed on a creature! This is what we call a Bad Thing, and we avoid the whole mess by keeping discrete lists of subtypes.

So we have 205.3d to keep the lists of subtypes separate (except the ones that share nice), and we have 205.3e to state explicitly that for cards with multiple types (such as Bound in Silence), each subtype gets correlated to the correct type. That second one keeps us from landing in the exact same trouble that 205.3d is meant to prevent.

Of course, that leaves the question of why tribal couldn't be a supertype like legendary or basic. The issue here is that subtypes are correlated with types, while supertypes aren't (205.3d again, in a big-ticket team-up with 205.4a). So what exactly would the tribal supertype mean? Would it mean that this object can have creature subtypes, or would it mean that this object's types can have creature subtypes correlated with them? The first causes big problems with 205.3d, and the second gets weird if the permanent starts losing types, as with Neurok Transmuter or Soul Sculptor. You could argue that tribal still applies to the new types, so the subtypes are kept, but then you've got something that works differently than other cards do when types change... These issues aren't necessarily intractable, but they're messy and counterintuitive either way, and everything works a lot more cleanly if tribal is a type. The rules do specify, however, that tribal always appears on cards that have at least one other type (that's 212.8a, for those keeping score at home).

So why does it "sound like" a supertype? I can't speak to this one as easily, as I wasn't here yet when the decision was made, but as I understand it the name "tribal" was chosen because it's evocative and descriptive, and it's already associated with creature types for established players. Some people argue that it should be a noun, because all types are nouns (like instant... well, in some definitions), and not an adjective the way supertypes are (like snow and, um, world...).

Okay, I'm being a little tongue-in-cheek there, but what I'm saying is that these are "rules" we bend when the actual rules and creative needs dictate. Most players can play the game thinking that tribal is a supertype, or ignoring it entirely, and not be affected at all. If you need to know that tribal is a card type, odds are you already do.

Whew! We're done, and I didn't even have to say "tribals."

Tl;Dr because tribal has subtypes (creature types at that), it's considered a card type.

I don't agree with the logic, but it makes sense. I'm seeing why they don't support it anymore though.

March 19, 2016 10:09 a.m.

CChaos says... #36

What do you guys think about Relentless Dead price range possibilities (highs and lows)?

The card is very playable likely wanted in most sacrifice decks , but is limited to mythic status.

March 19, 2016 10:30 a.m.

lemmingllama says... #37

@CChaos It will be between $10 and $20 for the first month after release. If it sees a lot of play it will stay there. Otherwise, expect it to fall to around $5

March 19, 2016 10:57 a.m.

MagicalHacker says... #38

I feel like it takes the same amount of rules to say tribal is a card type, it has all creature subtypes, and it must be paired with another (noncreature) subtype, vs. tribal is a supertype for all noncreature cards, it is a supertype with subtypes, and it's subtypes are all the creature subtypes. It also means that they could retroactively give the tribal supertype to old cards without affecting the balance of modern mechanics like delirium. In fact, when the first innistrad didn't have tribal cards, I myself was saddened. Imagine Grimoire of the Dead as "Tribal Artifact - Zombie" or Intangible Virtue as "Tribal Enchantment - Spirit". So. Cool.

March 19, 2016 12:30 p.m.

smackjack says... #39

Can Ormendahl be your commander?

March 19, 2016 1:06 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #40

No. For the same reason elberus can't be. They don't start as creatures.

March 19, 2016 1:10 p.m.

Chubbub says... #41

So I just checked and there are no rare dual lands that could alphabetically fit into this set. So that means there are either no rare duals, they're making a new type of duals, or they're finishing an unfinished cycle. The most likely unfinished cycles to be finished are in my mind the battle lands or the fast lands. I personally want them to print enemy fast lands because they have modern implications.

March 19, 2016 1:24 p.m.

square711 says... #42

No way they'll print enemy tangos when the allied ones are still in Standard. The fastland cycle definitely needs to be finished (B/W and U/R could REALLY use some extra duals), but you know what would be even better? If they make a cycle out of one of the unique Future Sight duals, like they did with Graven Cairns in Lorwyn. I guess Grove of the Burnwillows and Horizon Canopy are out of the question for the time being, but a River of Tears cycle would make me one very happy square. Nimbus Maze is fine too.

March 19, 2016 2:05 p.m.

Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #43

They missed their option for the river of tears cycle. It would have been wonderful with fetch lands

March 19, 2016 2:49 p.m.

VampireArmy says... #44

Funny idea for a standard deck. Use Ghirapur AEther Grid and Pia and Kiran Nalaar to burn people to death with clues.

March 19, 2016 4:15 p.m.

TheFoilAjani says... #45

VampireArmy It could be called "The Burning Question".

March 19, 2016 4:35 p.m.

kanokarob says... #46

IMO there needs to be a B/x investigate deck called "Blue's Clues"

March 19, 2016 5:28 p.m.

canterlotguardian says... #47

kanokarob you are a fucking legend.

March 19, 2016 5:33 p.m.

Mindgrind says... #48

I second that

March 19, 2016 5:35 p.m.

Bellock86 says... #49

Hey everyone. So I'm trying to nail down archetypes in limited. R/B madness seems plausible as a very quick aggro strategy.

There seems to be some merit to delirium but I'm drawing a blank on color scheme.

Thoughts?

March 19, 2016 5:42 p.m.

Chubbub says... #50

U/g seems like it is most likely investigate.

March 19, 2016 6:12 p.m.

This discussion has been closed

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