April 2016: Shadows over Innistrad
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Oct. 31, 2015, 6:42 p.m. by JWiley129
Announced during GP Indy, the Spring 2016 set is Shadows over Innistrad!
Edits for FAQ:
- Here is Mark Rosewater on why we're getting two returns in a row.
Ragon_Wolfbane ~ in a list like that Sorin, Grim Nemesis could basically be a part of the wincon. Card advantage and life draining your opponent simultaneously is pretty powerful.
Also this might be the jank lover in me but in that deck if you run Secure the Wastes could you also just run the new demon land and use that as another wincon?
March 20, 2016 10:16 p.m.
Ragon_Wolfbane says... #4
Bellock86~ I would love to run the demon land as a wincon, but I always get concerned about running colorless lands in fear of not being on color with something like Grasp of Darkness. Still though I could see it being used as a means to put out a massive beater. A secondary wincon against a control matchup running counter spells.
My only issue so far is with all the choices you can pick from! It's almost a little overwhelming. I mean you could run a WB Delver plan with the Heir of Falkenrath. The removal package of this set is great as well. The only thing I'm hoping for is some sort of White card that gives Investigate a bit more consistently for draw if black doesn't deliver enough.
March 20, 2016 10:34 p.m.
Ragon_Wolfbane - I definitely understand the concern about colorless lands. If you only run it as a 2 of it shouldn't cause too many issues. Run Sorin at 3 of and use him to filter through the deck faster and you can more reliably get to it without having to dilute your land base.
On top of that I don't even think we've gotten through half the set in spoilers yet so there's still a good chance of some additional love for 
.
I'll mash together a preliminary list and get back to you.
March 20, 2016 10:52 p.m.
That's cool, but probably a stretch. You need creatures to keep coming in to discard and you need another card you're willing to discard so it's not really that good. I do see your point of getting cards out of your hand, but most of the other madness enablers do that as well. My question was more of: of the 3 2 drops, (heir of falkenwrath Ravenous Bloodseeker and asylum visitor)which are the best to use?
I'm currently running 4 heir and have been flipping between 0, 1, and 2 bloodseekers
March 20, 2016 11:56 p.m.
Well, basically what I'm getting at is that Olivia's ability is useless once you're top decking since you won't have a card to discard to activate her. Drawing two cards a turn with the Asylum visitor once that happens will allow her to keep getting full value, not to mention a 3/1 vamp for two that occasionally draws you extra cards is pretty decent.
March 21, 2016 12:03 a.m.
Are people not running Hangarback Walker anymore? I feel like Hangarback + Secure the Wastes is the only chance at using Westvale Abbey.
Even then they just spoiled Anguished Unmaking which is one of the few removals that's handy against ANY control deck. (It hits mill enchantments, P-Walkers, indestructible Avacyn's, etc.)
The new land I feel is just for commander. If they wanted it to be played in winning decks it would say "whenever you sacrifice five creatures this turn transform this land and untap it".
Interestingly enough it would help 3 different decks that way:
Scion decks. - Butcher of the Horde type decks.
- Nantuko Husk type decks.
Even then it would be janky in standard. Playing one will hurt you more than it will help but that's ok if you're not trying to make top 4 in 16+ man tournaments. In an 8 man you could still make top 4 with a copy.. I just think it hurts more than helps.
March 21, 2016 12:19 a.m. Edited.
EverythingIsK says... #10
Rakdos Delver???
I can get behind this. Like really, leggo.
hell, Mardu Delver.
Creatures:
Spells:
From off the top of my head, it's basically a lower curve mardu midrange. I would look for more cards that'd be worth discarding, but I have work in the morning, and I need sleep. :/
March 21, 2016 12:54 a.m.
EverythingIsK Would Infernal Tutor be any good for your deck?
The hellbent wouldn't be so hard to turn on, and it's probably a better top deck than any card in your deck (because it would literally be any card in your deck). Not a 4-of, for obvious reasons, but it should be something to consider :)
March 21, 2016 5:50 a.m.
Check out that lovely sea giant in the wave that is engulfing the shore (in Engulf the Shore). That makes me happy.
March 21, 2016 6:12 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #16
I like these peeklands, but will we get the enemy ones in the next set?
March 21, 2016 6:42 a.m.
Guys, is it possible Kiora is on Innistrad? I mean, who else would be responsible for a kraken?
Also, are my eyes just playing tricks on me or does the hole in the creature's chest on Burn from Within look like the Phyrexian symbol?
March 21, 2016 6:45 a.m. Edited.
ChiefBell, thanks.
I hope that RB spoiled land doesn't mean another set of the same colors for us without the other. These ones seem great though.
March 21, 2016 6:48 a.m.
@ capriom85 - Woah woah woah. It sounds like your talking about New Phyrexians AND Kiora being on Innistrad. Goign with the whole missing Emrakul thing too it's to much for me to handle! Next thing you know Tibalt is going to be revealed to be working for Nichol Bolas al along!
March 21, 2016 6:50 a.m.
kengiczar, I don't actually believe that Nee Phyrexians are on Innistrad, I just think the Burn from Within spoiled art looks a lot like the logo.
Kiora, though, why not? I mean, she has been looking for krakens on Athreos to take to Zendikar. What do you do with krakens after you beat down some Eldrazi? Maybe she took them on vacation.
Missing Emrakul is a big clue, pun intended, but what if it's not that at all? I mean, would a creature that powerful hide, or even be able to hide on Innistrad?
March 21, 2016 6:57 a.m.
I dont think there's enough space in this particular set for all 10.
March 21, 2016 6:59 a.m.
I agree. Damn. At least I'll get more UW for my deck then
March 21, 2016 7:06 a.m.
WOTC CAN YOU PLEASE NOT MAKE IT A HABIT TO LEAVE CYCLES UNCOMPLETED.
March 21, 2016 7:08 a.m.
It is very annoying that these land cycles keep getting left incomplete and colours keep getting left out so the duals are so lopsided now its getting stupid. I also think the land is barely better than a guildgate. Only ever coming in untapped at the start of the game or after a big draw spell. Pretty naf tbh, wanted the battle lands finishing ideally. Or a reprint of the filter lands, that is much overdue cost wise
March 21, 2016 7:26 a.m.
These are very similar to the fast lands. Pretty good in early turns. Bad later on. To be honest that's better than good later and bad early.
March 21, 2016 7:29 a.m.
It's interesting that, despite being the same color combinations, these don't appear to play nicely with the battle for Zendikar lands. BfZ asked you to play basics asap, while these new lands probably want to be played before you play your basic lands.
March 21, 2016 7:42 a.m.
Well this is irritating. Why is wizards hating so much on the enemy colored lands?
March 21, 2016 7:48 a.m.
So, if someone wants to play 
... their options are still Man-lands that enter tapped and/or Pain lands?
I've been trying to play various enemy 2-color combinations for over a year... the mana base hasn't been strong enough, and still isn't.
These lands make Nahiri Cry.
March 21, 2016 7:50 a.m. Edited.
Which cycle do you think is better though- Showlands (great name btw ChiefBell :) ), or Tango?
On the one hand, Showlands can be played t1, but are dreadful draws with no land in hand. On the other hand, you can fetch tangos, and aren't AS bad to draw.
March 21, 2016 7:54 a.m.
bennybubbles says... #32
I prefer showlands, I never could afford fetches, and they are better than the tangoes early game when it matters.
March 21, 2016 7:58 a.m.
I'm seriously liking these new lands. All guild gate upgrades are useful imo, but I actually appreciate this one. It is true that others are better however :p
March 21, 2016 8:02 a.m.
Interesting...
Tangos, played early, come into play tapped... the more you play them the longer they will keep coming in tapped because you never get the 2 basics.
Showlands, played early, are likely to come into play untapped... the more you play them the longer they will keep coming in untapped because you will still have a basic in hand.
Which one is 'better' depends on the deck.
Control would want ones that are more likely to enter tapped early and have them enter untapped in the later game. - Aggro would want them to enter untapped early, but won't care if they are tapped later. - Midrange would probably want both, but would want to get lucky on it's draws to get untapped when needed.
Comparing Tangos to Showlands, I would say the fetch ability gives them a slight edge as you can choose to get them or the basics they require for coming in untapped. - Show lands can't be fetched and if you fetch for basics, the come into play and not to your hand, so they don't help these come in untapped.
Of course that comparison doesn't work for Standard as there are not going to be Fetches in Standard any longer.
March 21, 2016 8:13 a.m. Edited.
JohnnyBaggins says... #36
Well this is irritating. Why is wizards hating so much on the enemy colored lands?
Are they, though?
Standard right now has four Rare Land Cycles:
- Fetches, Allied-Paired
- Tango, Allied-Paired
- Pain Lands, Enemy-Paired
- Man Lands, Enemy-Paired
Now, it looks like Allied gains something off of Peek Lands, but they don't. The fetch lands rotate, and Peek Lands replace them. I am pretty sure that once the Set after Eldrich Moon releases, we'll see the completion of either the Peek-Cycle (since Pain Lands rotate). Then, in the Block after, Manlands and Tango-Lands rotate, which gives great opportunity to fill the Tango-Cycle (working along with the Enemy-Peek Lands) and some reprint of the Allied Pain Lands or something along those lines. It works out nicely, and Wizards hasn't actually done anything unfair in regards of the Colour distribution for the lands in, like, forever.
Admittedly, the fact that between Odyssey Filters, Scarlands, Tangolands, Futurelands and now Peeklands, Allied-Pairs have five incomplete cycles for them is somewhat unfair for formats like EDH and Highlander.
March 21, 2016 8:22 a.m.
Simply looking at the number of Rare duals is not a good way of comparing Enemy-color vs. Allied-color.
In most cases Man lands and Pain lands are significantly poorer mana fixing options over Tangos and Showlands.
It is interesting to note that Tangos and Shows each may come in tapped, but both can come in untapped. It is up to the deck builder/pilot to work them in such a way that they are likely to come in untapped when needed. - Pain and Man lands have one that must enter tapped and another that enters untapped but when you do, you must take damage to use it. There is no amount of deck building that can change this.
Allied 2-color decks have a significant advantage in the options they have for their mana fixing... just as they have for the past year or 2. (It was simply overshadowed by 3-color decks being stronger than 2-color)
March 21, 2016 8:50 a.m. Edited.
Call the Bloodline - 
Enchantment, Discard a card: Put a 1/1 black Vampire knight token with lifelink onto the battlefield. Activate this ability only once per turn.
March 21, 2016 8:57 a.m. Edited.
One thing I haven't seen mention that's I'm at least a little curious about is how these are going to play together with the Battlelands since fetches will be gone. One thing I find curious is that, the new showlands can enter untapped if you reveal a battleland because they only require a land type not a basic land, but the new showlands do nothing to benefit the battle lands. I have a feeling which lands you use will be greatly dependent on the style of deck your piloting. I don't foresee many decks running both sets of lands in large amounts. Either the early game is more important and you'll run the new lands because they'll come into play untapped earlier or the mid/late game is going to be important and you'll want the battlelands to help ensure your 4th and 5th land drop enter untapped. I think running both sets of lands in large numbers (even in multicolored decks) would obviously provided the necessary mana fixing, but would also be extremely unreliable and inconsistent keeping you off curve.
March 21, 2016 9 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #41
That enchantment looks really really strong in Limited. Well now we know how Sorin summons his Vampire Knights in his ult.
March 21, 2016 9:02 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #42
I like it as a sideboard for rb vamps. Control has been a bit of an issue especially with ice thing.
March 21, 2016 9:06 a.m.
Actually... Tango + Show helps to make 3-color Wedge viable.
Example... let's use Esper:
A single Tango in hand can allow both of the Shows enter untapped.
So a mana base would likely work well with:
2-3x Prairie Stream,
2-3x Sunken Hollow,
4x Port Town,
4x Choked Estuary,
and 8-12 basics of various types.
- If it fits well, you could run a couple Shambling Vents.
March 21, 2016 9:08 a.m.
"Pain and Man lands have one that must enter tapped and another that enters untapped but when you do, you must take damage to use it. There is no amount of deck building that can change this."
Actually, if you tap Pain lands for colourless you take no damage whatsoever.
March 21, 2016 9:12 a.m.
...Yes, but that defeats the purpose of using them as dual lands.
If you are only going to use then for 
, then man lands are the only enemy-duals.
My point still remains that, for mana fixing (in Standard), enemy-color duals are not as good as allied-color duals.
March 21, 2016 9:22 a.m. Edited.
I will note that I feel, because we received a full 5 in SoI, it is likely we will receive the other 5 in EMN... probably also getting the 5 uncommon allied tapped lands, to complete that cycle, for draft as well.
March 21, 2016 9:33 a.m.
Hamster2558 says... #47
So anyone see any good combos from shadows over innistrad
March 21, 2016 9:33 a.m.
Just typed in the lore text from Call of the Bloodline into Google Translate: "in response to the appeal of Sorin, Olivia resorted to the full power of
So basically. Sorin, in retaliation to Nahiri's Declaration in Stone, decided to appeal to Olivia to declare war upon Nahiri??
March 21, 2016 9:36 a.m.
"...Yes, but that defeats the purpose of using them as dual lands."
Not if you wish to use them primarily to get colourless mana, and only incidentally to get coloured mana.
The Pain lands have been quite flippantly dismissed.
Life is a resource. Using some of it in the early game to get advantage is a good thing, and can be easily compensated for with all the life gain available.
MagicalHacker says... #1
I guess it means Liliana is safe from turning into a demon like Ob Nixilis since they don't like sexy female demons.
March 20, 2016 10:07 p.m.