April 2016: Shadows over Innistrad
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Oct. 31, 2015, 6:42 p.m. by JWiley129
Announced during GP Indy, the Spring 2016 set is Shadows over Innistrad!
Edits for FAQ:
- Here is Mark Rosewater on why we're getting two returns in a row.
I got a foil one only the other day, and I can't wait to use it in a multiplayer game, so players can die before the game ends. A 26+/26+ with flying, intimidate, and trample? I Think Yes.Also, I never knew you could link to the reverse side of flip cards...
December 19, 2015 3:26 p.m. Edited.
DemonDragonJ says... #3
It is early, yet, but I wish to speculate about the mechanics that this block shall have.
I am certain that at least one mechanic from the first Innistrad block shall return, and I personally would like to see either morbid or fateful hour, since I was very fond of both of those mechanics.
I doubt that flashback shall appear, again, so I would instead like to see either haunt or unearth return in this block, since both of those mechanics make sense in Innistrad and neither has been seen in some time.
What existing mechanics does everyone else believe may return in this block?
December 29, 2015 11:40 p.m.
If morbid doesn't comeback I will riot and then accept it and move on.
December 30, 2015 12:22 a.m.
Undying needs to make a comeback. If it doesn't... words cannot express....
December 30, 2015 2:19 a.m.
I'd love to see Flashback return, just because it's such a strong mechanic.
December 30, 2015 2:36 a.m.
Harashiohorn says... #7
Someone previously threw out that hellbent could be an interesting mechanic to bring back, on that same vein maybe madness? The key is to bring back some good graveyard tricks, those are always fun, be it flashback, unearth, or a reprint of goryo's vengance ... Please?
December 30, 2015 10:48 a.m.
Reprint of Goryo's Vengeance has literally zero percent chance of happening. Goryo are spirits specific to Kamigawa, and Arcane/Splice onto Arcane will likely never return, especially for Innistrad. Maaayyybe Modern Masters 3 eventually but even that's a stretch.
December 30, 2015 10:59 a.m.
DemonDragonJ - Seriously, every time I read your comments I picture a British gentleman sitting in his study with a glass of port and a pipe in his mouth. You also keep misusing English grammar, which definitely makes you sound more pretentious than you think you are coming across.
Now, Wizards is under no obligation to put any old mechanics into SOI. But we will expect at least some returning mechanics, so obviously there will be one or two returning mechanics. Look at BFZ, the only returning mechanics were Landfall and Allies. We also knew the Eldrazi were coming back, but that Annihilator wouldn't play a role so there's that as well.
I had already made my predictions in this very thread. I neglected to put Undying there earlier, but I would instead think that Persist would be a good mechanic to put back in Standard. Undying has some developmental issues, since the creatures get bigger when they die. Whereas Persist makes the creature smaller, and is less dangerous for competitive play.
As to your other mechanics. Unearth would be interesting, but it's too heavily flavored towards Zombies and the like I don't think it would fit. Haunt has been panned by MaRo, so it coming back is very unlikely. The same was true of Fateful Hour, because it only happened at a time in the game where their effects were not nearly as good.
December 30, 2015 8:32 p.m.
persist is more dangerous than undying though. Melira and Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit have shown that to be true. Where as you hardly ever see an undying card in modern.
December 30, 2015 10:09 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #11
JWiley129: first, how am I "misusing" English grammar, to use your own words?
Second, I am American, but this is not the first time that others have thought that I am English, and while I am not bothered by that presumption, it is a sad thing to consider that so many Americans use improper language that one who does use proper language is mistaken for another nationality.
Third: what is wrong with the haunt mechanic? I find it to be extremely easy to understand: I simply physically place a card with it beneath the card that it is haunting. If the cipher mechanic, which is remarkably similar to haunt, could be printed in a recent block, why is a reprint of haunt unlikely?
Fourth: Mark Rosewater may be an important person at WotC, but he does not have supreme authority over this game, so his dislike of haunt is not a guarantee that that ability shall never return.
December 30, 2015 10:55 p.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #12
And if you think about it, he still got the point across, WHICH is the very point of language. Making a fuss over grammar is pointless, especially since it doesnt even matter in lots of cases.
As for SOI, Bring on the Green yard hate. I will be the only one with shenanigans!
December 31, 2015 10:23 a.m.
DemonDragonJ - Let's start with the fact that over 75% of your sentences are run-ons. You overuse commas more than a high schooler trying to pad the length of their English paper. Plus you keep misusing shall when you mean will. I'd say more in that regard, but I'm not an English teacher.
Now then, while Mark Rosewater isn't the end-all-be-all of Magic, he does have a large amount of influence. And he's already said that haunt was a mistake. That alone should indicate that Haunt won't be coming back.
December 31, 2015 2:29 p.m.
So, more baseless speculation here. Since Ob Nixilis is shaping up to be the big baddy for this block and he hates Nahiri (who is presumably searching for Sorin) could Ob Nixilis be the one bringing the Eldrazi to Innistrad? He's shown the ability to both bait Kozilek and control his weakest spawn and we know the Eldrazi can be lured between planes (it is the bases of the entire Zendikar story). We know Jace will be on Innistrad after just taking his Oath, and the only relevance Innistrad really has to the Eldrazi story is that it is Sorin's homeworld and that Nahiri is looking for Sorin. So Ob Nixilis, in his lust for revenge against Nahiri, discovers or is manipulated into thinking Nahiri is on Innistrad so that he will leave Zendikar. This gives the heroes time to work on the hedrons again and also aligns with Ugin/Nahiri/Sorin's Plan B: lure them to Sorin's world if Nahiri's world falls.
December 31, 2015 2:52 p.m.
No eldrai on Innistrad please! I do not want the return to one of the fan favorite planes to be messed up due to wizrds being forced in to printing even more eldrazi when we just had a block focused on them. I can't be the only one who wants to move on from them.
December 31, 2015 5:14 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #16
JWiley129, could we please stop talking about my manner of speech? That really is not at all relevant to this thread, and I doubt that anyone here would appreciate it if I criticized them for frequently using improper and slang language.
Second, exactly how is haunt difficult to understand, and what makes it a "mistake," in Mark Rosewater's opinion? No matter how I try, I cannot see how haunt could be anything but easy to understand.
Ruffigan, the idea of Ob Nixilis going to Innistrad would be so awesome, because he would fit in perfectly on that plane. However, I would rather that he travel there, alone, and not bring the Eldrazi with him, because, while it is acceptable that he has a connection to the Eldrazi, I would rather that he have an identity apart from them, so that he can stand on his own, as an antagonist in this game.
December 31, 2015 5:17 p.m.
DemonDragonJ - No no no, you asked how you're misusing English. I answered your question. You don't get to change the subject without addressing my answer.
As per Haunt, you aren't the only Magic player. Others shared your surprise that haunt was hard to understand? (There are 6 links, read all of them) Just because you think it's simple doesn't mean there are people who think it is confusing.
December 31, 2015 5:35 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #19
JWiley129: very well, so haunt is unlikely to return; while I am upset about that, I shall not allow it to ruin my anticipation for this block, as it is only one mechanic.
Another idea that I had was that it would be a very interesting twist if Avacyn began to grow and evolve beyond the purpose for which Sorin intended her, possibly even beyond his control, akin to Frankenstein's monster. It also would be nice to see her become black and white, since it does seem odd that a mono-white being would wear dark clothing and have such a melancholy expression on her face.
January 1, 2016 2:32 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #20
DemonDragonJ, yeah I always thought it was weird how evil/dark she looked, what with all the black clothing and dark eyes:
January 1, 2016 2:43 p.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #21
Nah, Avacyn's just goth. If I wear red clothing am I a pyromaniac?
January 1, 2016 5:31 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #22
TheNextRedDude no, you'd just be living up to your name.
I still remain skeptical that SOI is going to be a good block. I really want it to be, but I suspect, that like Zendikar, ISD set the bar too high and Wizards will be reluctant to achieve that level again in a Standard environment.
January 1, 2016 6:28 p.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #23
CanadianShinobi Exactly! I wear light brown, green, or blue whenever I burn things!
January 2, 2016 9:23 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #24
I still would like to know the details of Avacyn's creation/birth, since that information has not yet been revealed. What if Sorin modeled her after a woman he loved, or would that be too similar to Ixidor and Akroma?
January 2, 2016 10:18 p.m.
Doug Beyer answered an interesting question a year ago about Avacyn & Sorin that I think would be interesting to look back on. Especially now that we're returning to Innistrad.
January 2, 2016 10:46 p.m.
A friend of mine is still very convinced that Avacyn & Nahiri are the same person. I'm not opposed to the idea, it could potentially lead to an Angel Planeswalker (Hey if Ob can be a planeswalker while being a Demon, so can an Angel).
January 3, 2016 12:03 a.m.
The big difference is that Ob was a human that got turned into a Demon because of The Chain Veil. Angels are all artificially made, so they would have to be given a spark in the same way Karn, Silver Golem got his.
There are also sources that make this impossible. Aka, Avacyn being made before Nahiri disappears.
January 3, 2016 12:17 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #28
Canadion, that idea is very far-fetched, because it would have serious implications for the story of the game, among the most prominent of which would be that Avacyn does not seem to have any memory of her previous existence, if that is true, and, therefore, would not be able to assist against the Eldrazi.
However, I have noticed that the Helvault is a stone object that held powerful beings imprisoned within, akin to how Nahiri's hedrons are stone objects that can imprison powerful beings; is that a coincidence? I imagine that it is, since lithomancy, akin to necromancy and pyromancy, is likely a magical art that have been developed on each plane independently of the other planes, but it still is a very interesting one, nevertheless.
As a side note, angels are my favorite creatures in this game, so I very much would like to see an angelic planeswalker, at some point, but whether or not it shall be Avacyn is very uncertain at the present time, and also very unlikely, since there currently is no reason, either in-story or out-of-story, for Avacyn to leave Innistrad and travel to other planes.
January 3, 2016 12:20 a.m.
One note about the Helvault, it is actually made up of a piece of Innistrad's moon which is made of silver not stone.
January 3, 2016 12:27 a.m.
JWiley129 Mind if I had links to said sources? I'm really just curious about it all, and I'd like to use said sources for discussions with my friend. :)
January 3, 2016 12:29 a.m.
Canadion - Here are a few links I found that you can use.
- Doug Beyer on Angels, Demons, and Sparks
- More Doug Beyer on Angels, Demons, and Sparks
- Ob Nixilis' Planeswalker Profile where it mentions him changing b/c of the Chain Veil.
- MTGSalvation thread on the topic The most damning evidence being that Sorin thought that Nahiri had done something to Ugin during Sorin's Restoration.
January 3, 2016 12:49 a.m.
Thank you! Now to delve into nice juicy information.
January 3, 2016 12:51 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #33
I hope we get to see/learn more about Shilgengar. I mean, he was essentially the mastermind behind Edgar Markov's blood rite/vampiric experiments.
If we do end up meeting Sorin again, I think it would be neat to have another card where he's just mono-black. It probably wouldn't be on Innistrad, since white represents his duty to his long-standing missions like keeping his plane stable and stopping the Eldrazi, but still. Like to see another pure black Sorin to emphasize his hedonistic attitude.
January 3, 2016 12:52 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #34
GoldGhost012, where was Shilgengar during the first Innistrad block? Was he simply not shown, was he imprisoned in the Helvault, or was he somehow killed before the events of that block? Given how important a figure he is in the lore of that plane, I hope to see him as much as I hope to see Edgar Markov in this block.
January 3, 2016 3:17 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #35
He wasn't actually in the block. He was just talked about when explaining Sorin's origins and Innistrad's vampire origins.
January 3, 2016 8:31 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #36
GoldGhost012, in that case, I believe that it is safe to presume that he is still alive, and likely to appear at some point in the future, with this block being the best opportunity for that to occur.
January 4, 2016 9:31 p.m.
I agree with vault. I would love to see B/W angel vs R/G werewolf and R/B vampires. Fingers crossed for a Stitcher Geralf that's standard legal!
January 18, 2016 1:57 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #42
As long as we get a homunculi lord I'm fine.
Seriously. We get literally have a set filled with 299 Chimney Imps and one creature that said "Homunculus creatures you control get +1/+1" and all would be good
January 24, 2016 7:37 p.m.
Can't we just get a print rerun of Innistrad instead?
January 25, 2016 6:04 p.m.
Avacyn is too strong... Presumably.
10/10 would participate.
January 26, 2016 12:59 p.m.
Any thoughts on whether we'll see a return of the flip cards?
We saw them in Origins, so clearly Wizards still thinks they're feasible. It was definitely an interesting mechanic, though inconvenient for those who dislike sleeves.
January 26, 2016 2:49 p.m.
I'm 99% sure we'll see Double Faced Cards (DFCs) in SoI. Flip cards, the cards like Budoka Gardener, were considered a failure.
January 26, 2016 3:13 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #47
Really? I liked flip cards. More than DFCs.
They're just a pain to sleeve and unsleeve
January 26, 2016 3:19 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird - Well, the flip cards are quite crowded compared to DFCs. There's less space for rules text, which is probably the best reason to consider DFCs superior to Flip cards.
January 26, 2016 3:23 p.m.
WolfDice66 says... #49
I believe that the first set will revolve around Avacyn and her host of angels being turned evil by an unseen sinister force. With Griselbrand gone, Avacyn's power has waned and is now vulnerable to The Titan of Corruption. Avacyn, Guardian Angel's abilities protect from colored sources, not the colorless eldrazi magic of Emrakul. The plane of Innistrad may not be mana rich enough for Emrakul to manifest the same physical form that she held on Zendikar or be able to conjure her brood. Perhaps she is using a form of colorless mana from Inistrad's moon as a base from which she may exert her influence. I'd expect to see Sorin investigatng alongside Tamiyo as to what has happened to his angel of hope and the balance of the plane. I hope there will be some flavorful reprints like Wayward Angel, Fallen Angel, Desolation Angel, and Bad Moon. I know MaRo said threshold was too confusing to players but I could see the mechanic returning as a way to trigger flip cards and combat delve.
In the second set of the block I would want to see some form of Emrakul and her brood, possibly heralded/driven by Ob Nixilis(whom after his defeat at Zendikar may have followed Sorin in search of Nahiri). This gives the inhabitants of Innistrad the choice to band together or face certain doom at the hands of demons, angel, and extra dimentional nightmares. This is an opportunity for Ally themed mechanics to be used again and expanded. There will be the obvious wolfir, spirit, and human faction that may include stitchers. Even vampires and devils would have cause to fear the banishing effect of the eldrazi. The necromantic inhabitants of Innistrad woul be devestated by Ingest. I could see this leading to Liliana joining the Gatewatch and lending use of the Veil to the fight. This will probably give us Liliana's Oath or a Call the Gatewatch style Veil oriented card . A few reprints I think would be cool are Induce Despair, Pale Moon, and Repentant Vampire. Maybe a nerfed Blood Moon that will help werewolves.
VORTHOS!
January 28, 2016 4:39 p.m.
WolfDice66 says... #50
I'd like to see cards for Innistrad's Harvest Moon and Hunter's Moon. Also a ____ of the New Moon, Legendary creature would be cool
Braxlin says... #1
@xavrr I agree with you about Withengar Unbound. Probably my favorite card from the whole block lore-wise. I wanted so much more info about the demon and the circumstances around his binding. Does his retribution have to do with Avacyn? Idk I just want more of him
December 19, 2015 3:20 p.m.