April 2016: Shadows over Innistrad
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Oct. 31, 2015, 6:42 p.m. by JWiley129
Announced during GP Indy, the Spring 2016 set is Shadows over Innistrad!
Edits for FAQ:
- Here is Mark Rosewater on why we're getting two returns in a row.
GoldGhost012 says... #2
Paying the 5 mana to flip Abbey also isn't particularly slow in Standard. Especially not if you have Eldrazi Scions or Cryptolith Rite to pay for it as well.
April 1, 2016 11:31 a.m. Edited.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #3
I am curious, do people think that this potential Ormendal deck will be Abzan colors or mainly stick between G/W, W/B, and G/B? Abzan would be best since you have access to all the useful cards and it can pretty much slide into the remnants of the Rally deck, but with fetch lands leaving, will that be enough of an impact to move to two colors?
April 1, 2016 11:36 a.m.
3 colors will be too slow to reliably trigger it T5. I think standard is going back to 2 main colors and maybe splashing 1. Right now you can play 3-4 colors too easily.
April 1, 2016 11:37 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #5
Is decks want to play 3 colors, the third color will be 
. Otherwise decks will primarily be 2 colors with maybe a small third splash.
April 1, 2016 11:40 a.m.
As mentioned, two colors will be ideal for Abbey decks (maybe 
or 
) and most of the rest of the new standard as well.
April 1, 2016 11:47 a.m.
I still don't know about abbey. I may be biased as a control player though. I just feel like it needs too much setup. The only card which impresses me with it is secure the wastes, and by this point we are at or later than turn 6, or at least five.
Rayenous Not going to lie, I was generalising. Blue also has answers through counterspells and bounce effects, and a bounce on flipped Abbey is going to be painful. Red still has sweepers, and out-aggros other decks. Green... I never play green, so I have no idea what they would do, but few decks are mono-green. Colorless is also something to consider, but few decks are colorless and don't splash a color other than green.
Besides, dies to double Flatten.
-Dead person, 2016
April 1, 2016 12:30 p.m.
Actually, Flaying Tendrils is a great answer to the entire deck besides Husk and Secure the Wastes.
April 1, 2016 12:32 p.m.
Sounds like we've all forgotten about Clip Wings as an answer for Ormendahl, Profane Prince Flip.
April 1, 2016 12:34 p.m.
Nah, just me. Clip Wings, the new Magma Spray of sideboard tech.
April 1, 2016 12:43 p.m.
You know, the more I think about it, the better it seems. Let's make a list of the stuff it kills.
Goldnight Castigator (if it ever becomes a thing)
Honourable mentions go to stuff like Heir to the Night Flip, which are too small to want to hit.
April 1, 2016 1:23 p.m.
averagenovice74 says... #12
I think you can look at it, you can play Westvale Abbey
Flip in 
colors because of the presence of Secure the Wastes and Dragon Fodder. But it doesn't have to play into those, you can any eldazi producing drone in bunches and that will create enough bodies needed but ALSO the mana as well to flip him. I really am high on the card because the variants for shells are there. Control style, clog the board or hellbent aggro with .
Edit* And the fact it is also NOT a legendary land so if they have answers you can always drop the second one until needed.
April 1, 2016 2:29 p.m. Edited.
Declaration in Stone hoses Tokens made to flip Westvale Abbey Flip.
Anguished Unmaking flat out kills it.
I had it in a deck and didn't like how it performed.
Then again ... it was in one of my prerelease packs tonight so who knows, I might end up trialling it.
Got Archangel Avacyn Flip as my Promo.
April 1, 2016 3:26 p.m. Edited.
Wow nice grabs. Grats! Keeping or trading while the hype is on?
April 1, 2016 3:35 p.m.
I always keep, even if I hate the card.
Have a Siege Rhino, 2 Hangarback Walkers, and 4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip cards that have never seen play.
And they neeeeever will.
April 1, 2016 3:38 p.m.
There was someone I played on untap that had a token deck with Cryptolith Rite and secure the wastes to activate it.
April 1, 2016 3:38 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #17
It looks like I might be attending a prerelease... Every year a club at my University hosts "JohnCon" and this year it lines up with the SoI prerelease.
Any tips?
April 1, 2016 3:50 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #18
Red is arguably the strongest color. Dead Weight is probably the best removal in the set and if you're not picking every copy you see you better be picking something synergistic or Archangel Avacyn Flip.
April 1, 2016 4:01 p.m.
I was hoping for Dead Weight as it's in the Standard deck I have fleshed out.
I was playing UB Control for prerelease. Would have been perfect.
Didn't get one. :0(
April 1, 2016 4:06 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #23
Not really. Dead Weight fuels delirium (generally hard to get enchantments into the yard), cripples large dudes, and kills weenies, all for a super low cost. And it's usually relevant at all points of the game. Angelic Purge has a high cost and is only good in the mid and late game.
Angelic Purge has the stronger effect, especially at instant speed, to be sure. But it's not the stronger Limited card overall. I'm going to drafting Dead Weight more often and at a higher pick than Angelic Purge.
April 1, 2016 5:02 p.m.
Standard and Limited, Westvale Abbey Flip likely won't be too strong, as though it will be possible and perhaps easy to flip him, he dies even easier.
In Modern he could make a slightly larger splash. Here you get access to likely more efficient methods of flipping him, as well as cards to grant him hexproof the turn he does, so he is generally all around safe. This is the one I'm working on right now.
April 1, 2016 5:08 p.m.
EverythingIsK says... #26
My prerelease struggle to get home as fast as I can from work, to then get a ride from my buddy to drive an hour to our shop. Gonna be a little late to it, but it'll be worth cracking packs for the first time in a year.
Going 90 on back roads is legal as long as you don't get caught, right? : )
April 1, 2016 9:47 p.m.
Nightdragon779 says... #27
Glhf for prerelease, I won't be attending cuz I have a piano competition. I'll draft the next week tho, excited at the prospect of cracking an Arlinn
April 1, 2016 10:47 p.m.
EverythingIsK says... #28
I'm looking out for some sorins and nahiris because my mardu fetish is being sated.
April 1, 2016 11:21 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #29
Westvale Abby doesn't need to flipped to be a great card. It's a land that doubles as a win condition and creates creatures. Either you're using it to cast spells or turning mana flood into card advatanage while representing inevitability, it's a win win situation. Any Standard deck can play it and I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 50% of the competitive meta sleeving it up.
April 2, 2016 12:26 a.m.
My LGS holds a 2HG sealed for every prerelease on saturday at 7 and a buddy and I are going. Good luck to everyone and I look forward to reading this thread for stories in the morning with my coffee.
April 2, 2016 2:23 a.m.
Just finished up the midnight prerelease. Played / skulk/flyers. The removal and control options are good and I ran 14 creatures. I had a couple insanely fast games that I won, with Elusive Tormentor
Flip bringing the heat; but after five rounds I landed 9th with a 2-3 record.
Afterwards I bought 2 more prerelease boxes to open on the spot and pulled a promo Relentless Dead
, reg Relentless Dead, Sorin, Grim Nemesis, Westvale Abbey
Flip, and a bunch of other goodies
April 2, 2016 6:10 a.m.
I'm jelly about the Sorin.
I agree that Dead Weight is a better option than Angelic Purge, but you don't have to choose. You can just run both.
I tried Westvale Abbey Flip in a Standard deck but because it doesn't start going off until mid to late game I found more value in Blighted Fen.
If I find myself in a lot of super grindy matchups where I need late game Creatures, I may put it back in.
I like that its flip doesn't automatically trigger.
Relentless Dead was a superstar at the first prerelease I attended. Lots of Zombehs around for it to target.
Trisko also works very well in Limited.
I was happy with the UB prelease deck I built.
It was based around Deathtouch, Flash, and Counter spells.
April 2, 2016 6:26 a.m. Edited.
You guys think Relentless Dead will be heavily used in standard?
April 2, 2016 9:53 a.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #34
Is it just me or is the broken stained glass in Relentless Dead one & the same as the one in Endless Ranks of the Dead?
April 2, 2016 9:58 a.m.
AwesomeName says... #35
@Metroid_Hybrid Yes, that was definitely intended to be done by wotc.
April 2, 2016 10:03 a.m. Edited.
demonicgrizzly says... #36
I think Relentless Dead is overhyped, and I think a lot of people will be disappointed
It almost requires you to slow-play your hand..which in an aggro deck you don't want to do that
April 2, 2016 10:07 a.m.
I think once people work out how good Relentless Dead pairs with Fleshbag Marauder you will see it most decks running
April 2, 2016 10:07 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #38
My pre-release dream is to slap a Dead Weight onto an Elusive Tormentor Flip before it has the ability to transform. If I manage to do that just once, I could go 0-4 and I'll leave the store happy.
April 2, 2016 10:10 a.m. Edited.
demonicgrizzly says... #39
Anyone else feel that, in the context of modern specifically, that the new set doesn't offer anything overly exciting?
As a BGx enthusiast, I haven't stumbled across anything better than what we currently have. I do, however, really like Westvale Abbey Flip but think anyone spending $20 on it is way overspending
Maybe I will be wrong, but initially, I am not impressed
April 2, 2016 10:14 a.m.
lemmingllama says... #41
@demonicgrizzly I wouldn't necessarily say that. There are modern playables, but nothing that will significantly bolster existing decks.
I'll put a list of what I believe are possibly Modern playable. This doesn't necessarily mean that they are all tier 1 cards, but there are a lot of cards that could see play in Modern decks.
Card list Show
April 2, 2016 10:37 a.m.
Relentless Dead in Standard depends on if there's enough stuff to run mono , maybe with a small splash. It would have to be 
for Traverse the Ulvenwald to help fix, which kind of isn't Prized Amalgam in . All these 3 color lists seem a bit greedy without fetches/more reliable fixing. Jund can do ok because of Traverse and Sylvan Scrying.
I hope people don't play Relentless Dead in Standard cuz I need a playset for Modern and I wouldn't mind dat $ going down...
April 2, 2016 10:44 a.m.
demonicgrizzly says... #44
@lemmingllama those are all legit, not that I was saying that there was nothing modern playable. Just that there was nothing that really popped to me
I do like Harness the Storm, though - lots of possibilities there.
Thing in the Ice Flip is also cool. As is Westvale Abbey Flip
And I am not sure that Anguished Unmaking is any better than Utter End. I would almost rather pay the extra mana than loose three life, especially when you look at how painful your typical mana base can be in modern with all the shocking and fetching. And utter end is instant speed, and most of the time Path to Exile can take care of whatever it is that needs exiled
Though, I know it's still too early to make calls on what will be good or not. Time will tell, but till then I can speculate
April 2, 2016 12:08 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #45
@demonicgrizzly I can see Anguished Unmaking as a 1-of. It allows you to skimp a little on sideboard hate for artifacts and enchantments, making your other matchups a bit better. Then you side it out against aggressive decks.
April 2, 2016 12:22 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #47
@ChiefBell Just as an example, Esper doesn't run Maelstrom Pulse
April 2, 2016 12:43 p.m.
Maelstrom Pulse is good in BG decks, but if you want to play in WB without splashing G Anguished Unmaking is better
April 2, 2016 12:44 p.m.
People who have already gone to prereleases, what is the best color combo/archetype?
April 2, 2016 1:01 p.m.
i've done good with WR and lost only 1 match 2-1 'cause din't get red mana
Rayenous says... #1
DarkLaw - You're saying that all decks will need to play
and/or 
... That seems fairly 'defining' to me.
Oh, and Flaying Tendrils doesn't stop Ormendahl, Profane Prince Flip. - Sure it may be used to slow down the Flip, but it's not going to stop it.
April 1, 2016 11:28 a.m.