Are you serious? Did anyone else notice?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Sept. 13, 2014, 8:27 p.m. by Its_Johnny_Bravo
Seriously overpowered, especially in modern formats Kin-Tree Invocation ... Tree of Redemption ??? Wall of Blossoms ??? Or casual maybe Shield Sphere ?.. Anyways, totally ridiculous... Your thoughts?
There's ways around it in Modern. It's good synergy, but I doubt it'll make significant waves.
September 13, 2014 8:30 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #5
I'd say it's basically a turn 4-5 5/5 and up creature
September 13, 2014 8:32 p.m.
Programmer_112 says... #7
So, here's the plan: We're going to make a deck with Doran, the Siege Tower and this and Indomitable Ancients and all that good stuff. It'll be great.
September 13, 2014 8:37 p.m.
It's nowhere near as powerful at Sorcery speed. Even at Instant, there are many preventative measures in constructed formats for the card to be of significant power.
September 13, 2014 8:38 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #10
Lol yeah Doran, the Siege Tower would be awesome.. The thing about this card is it doesn't have to be used quickly, if it's a turn 4 draw it still has plenty of effectiveness. The mechanics behind mtg are algebra based. When you consider probability you have to focus on potential downfall and cost effectiveness cmc wise. I truly believe mathematically that this card in a b/g deck is just purely overpowered... My review is based on the consideration of comparable 2cmc cards in modern formats
September 13, 2014 8:44 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #11
Tokens in themselves are weak. Even bounce effects kill them. That's a bad investment
September 13, 2014 8:50 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #12
It's really not as good as you seem to think. I have to be blunt.
Your strategy relies on you playing a bunch of fat creatures. Even the statement "It's basically a turn 4-5 5/5" is revealing in a format that has Tarmogoyf and lots of removal. You're better off just playing creatures that are good.
September 13, 2014 8:52 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #13
Or play it with Tarmogoyf . It's a crazy awesome card for abzan builds in standard as well. I can't believe it's an uncommon. Overall, yes there are cards like tarmogoyf but they go for $100 easy... And of course there's an answer to any card out there.. I simply believe that putting an x/x creature into play for 2 is rediculous. There's no card like it
September 13, 2014 9:11 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #14
@ VampireArmy are there any bounce effect cards in standard? Post rotation
September 13, 2014 9:12 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #15
Now now, lets not get algebra and probability mixed up.
The thing about this token, no form of protection, and no form of evasion.
September 13, 2014 9:13 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #16
But for 2???? What cards out there are comparable..? That aren't $100
September 13, 2014 9:17 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #17
Your thread says especially modern. Also Retraction Helix and a few others are standard
September 13, 2014 9:19 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #19
Nobody seems to think this card is overpowered except for me. But I say to you non believers- into a golgari reanimator we shall go! Lol.. I'll be the black sheep
September 13, 2014 9:28 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #21
-Spellskite ... See? Answer for everything!
September 13, 2014 9:40 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #22
Ok, now that skittles is gone, I path your token.
Or cryptic.
Or Vapor Snag
or Doom Blade
or Shriekmaw
The list goes on.
Hell, a turn 1 Thoughtseize wins.
September 13, 2014 9:44 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #23
It's not a good card because it requires another card to be effective. :/
September 13, 2014 9:44 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #24
"Nobody seems to think this card is overpowered except for me"
Probably because, hrm, it's not.
Let me just Abrupt Decay your 20/20 and Liliana sac the original 0/20 then beat you down with a Scavenging Ooze that just ate your reanimated fatty. Because this is turn 7 and you haven't even tried to kill me yet.
You're trying to piece the clunkiest things together and call it a modern staple. It's just not a good synergy.
September 13, 2014 9:48 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #26
I agree with playing it in standard. You can be as cute as you want in a format with zero quality removal spells.
September 13, 2014 9:53 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #27
Lotleth Revival built this in 5 secs to show how I feel it is effective
September 13, 2014 10:15 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #28
If it's so effective, why do you only have two copies?
You can't ride successful creatures to victory and claim that your flex spot gets you there.
Also, that deck has no engine to get your vine or bloodghast going.
If this is a casual thing, just say so, but we're all in the mindset that you want to take this card / combo / idea to a competitive tournament, and you're just going to lose there. People who actually attend, and sometimes do really well at these tournaments are telling you that this sort of thing won't work because they've been there, and they have the experience to know that jank gets torn apart quite easily.
September 13, 2014 10:37 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #29
Because 4 copies doesn't make sense.. What is does is perfect as a low probability draw. Deck like this for example: lotleth dumps 2-3 creatures first, most of which come back. Pack rat is a standalone token generator.. Tree of redemption with Korozda Guildmage OR kin tree?? Kin tree+ lotleth? We're talking like 3-5 creature in play with a 5-7 power/tough token (possibly 13/13) by turn 4ish? That's why.
September 13, 2014 10:44 p.m.
alright, let's stop feeding the troll and let him go about his blind faith
September 13, 2014 10:44 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #31
Don't feel bad, I really really wanted Life's Legacy to work.
September 13, 2014 10:49 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #32
Now here's the deal- I'm not making the statement that this card is the next black lotus. I'm simply saying that as a 2 drop uncommon, that I feel it is overpowered.
September 13, 2014 10:50 p.m.
Bahahaha this thread made my day. I can't even handle it. It's an UNCOMMON for a reason. lol
September 13, 2014 10:50 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #34
I'm not entirely convinced that he's trolling yet. I mean, this just seems like someone who honestly has no idea what competitive modern is, and I kind of want to be here when he realizes that his plan won't work because he hasn't realized yet that his combo instantly folds to pretty much every form of removal.
September 13, 2014 10:50 p.m.
It's not even a combo....it's barely good synergy.
September 13, 2014 10:52 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #36
So it is, but play it with a Lord of Extinction ... Now it's a problem
September 13, 2014 10:55 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #38
ThatBlueMage man you're making this into something it definitely isn't. Did I ever say this card can't be beat.? Or that it should be banned because if you put it into a deck you'll automatically win? No, what I'm saying is that this card is potentially a 2 drop 5/5 or 7/7 or even a 20/20 if it's played. There aren't many cards that can do that.
September 13, 2014 11:02 p.m.
or, you know, all your stuff gets killed in response...
September 13, 2014 11:06 p.m.
I would have to say that it is a powerful card, but not overpowered due to it not having evasion of any kind, nor is it hexproof. So it can win games if you can keep it in play and give it some kind of evasion. But both of those would be needed, or they will chump block, use a kill spell, use a bounce spell that kills or block it with a deathtouch creature. it is a limited bomb though as it can be good early or late game depending on your board.
September 13, 2014 11:08 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #41
Agreed, I'll admit it's certainly open to removal.. I was thinking maybe a Lightning Greaves type of card? Or possibly play off of Spellskite ?
September 13, 2014 11:14 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #42
Once Spellskite is gone, what then?
Once the greaves are gone, what then?
Brb, I'm playtesting. best three of five.
September 13, 2014 11:16 p.m.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #43
@ vampirelazarus that's true 100%, but isn't every card that way unless it's hex proof or indestructible? It's def no Tarmogoyf though
September 13, 2014 11:19 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #44
So I playtested one of my jank decks against it.
I'll admit, it turned scary rather quickly.
In one of four games.
The other three games, I kinda just.... roflstomped it.
came out on top.
Granted, this is only one game, and I made tons of play mistakes with both decks (namely mine, missing Countryside Crusher +1/+1 triggers, was the biggest one)
September 13, 2014 11:55 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #45
Refine the deck. Add some Forest .
Game one, I had your deck on a Life from the Loam + Tectonic Edge lock, and your deck had no green sources out. At all. Adding a forest would help against my Path to Exile s.
September 13, 2014 11:56 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #46
I'd rather play Torpor Orb + Hunted Horror . Oh, and good ol Eater of Days .
September 14, 2014 12:30 a.m.
the more you play the more you will realize that the utility of the creatures is much more important than how big it is. Tokens are junk unless you have tons of them
September 14, 2014 12:44 a.m.
Problem is... I'll splinter twin you out way before you can do this. It's a lot of work for a 13/13 that can get removed very easily. But by all means brew away.
September 14, 2014 1:44 a.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #49
Just saying, Ensoul Artifact is literally a 2 drop 5/5 and the potential to hold indestructibility with Darksteel citadel, and I don't hear anyone saying that that card is overpowered.
Point is, unless a card gives you instant value, recurring value or long term value, it's not a good card in as competitive a format as modern is. A 13/13 token can be lost so many more ways than a normal creature. Dies to ratchet bomb set to 0, vapor snag, abrupt decay, the list goes on. You can waste a lot of mana trying to get this to go off only to have it blow up in your face.
Its_Johnny_Bravo says... #2
Oh and don't forget Steel Wall and Wall of Tanglecord
September 13, 2014 8:29 p.m.