BANNED
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Nov. 29, 2014, 8:56 p.m. by vance3
There has been a lot of talk (and complaining) about Treasure Cruise and/or Dig Through Time getting banned. I personally love Delve and yes it can be really powerful but there are also plenty of card's that prevent it by sending cards into exile numerous ways. I don't think both will be banned, if any I'm guessing Treasure Cruise but I don't want either to be. What do you guys see happening with both cards and why? Also, do you want the banhammer to smash them or not?
CommanderOfBolas says... #3
There are plenty of decks out there that are successful without either of those cards, so I don't see them being banned. Dig Through Time is, in my opinion, not even on the chopping block. It is good, but limited by the UU in its cost. Also, there have been numerous threads about this over the past couple weeks.
November 29, 2014 9 p.m.
Really? There have been like 38 threads about this in the last 2 weeks. Can we stop already?
November 29, 2014 9:02 p.m.
Are there? I've seen economic questions and mentions but no thread's asking if you THINK they will be banned and if you WANT them to be banned. If I missed them I'm sorry. If you don't like my thread go read a different one.
November 29, 2014 9:13 p.m.
SimicPower says... #6
I like Treasure Cruise. It makes Tarmogoyf a *little* less broken.
November 29, 2014 9:16 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #7
EMRAGHERD!!!! TRSUR CRUSSSSSSS!!!!!one1!1111
I'm sorry, I really just had to at this point.
November 29, 2014 9:26 p.m.
It's played alongside tarmogoyf in plenty of decks. It doesn't hurt tarmogoyf at all.
November 29, 2014 9:31 p.m.
I see the two sides of this argument as, People who play Blue vs People who hate Blue...
November 29, 2014 10:02 p.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #10
@cian114 Yeah, because us Blue players are so selfish we don't want cards that are potentially broken and format warping banned so long as they're in our colors. Come on, I play Blue and don't want these cards legal, at least in Modern.
Either way, @vance3, just search the forums for mentions of "Treasure Cruise" or "ban" and you'll find several discussions exactly like this one. They're not that hard to find.
November 29, 2014 10:49 p.m.
TC is only "broken" because of Theros block being in STD.
Once it rotates out, TC will only be a good card... but not as powerful as now.
So no. It won't be banned.
However, in other formats esp. Mdn, it remains to be seen.
November 29, 2014 11:46 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #13
Stopped reading comments after Fluffy Bunny's.
I'll offer the extremely vague argument that if they're going to ban treasure cruise, they need to ban goyf as well.
I'll also offer the argument that they need to ban either Jeskai Ascendency or Glittering Wish right the fuck now, like emergency ban style, because that deck's too good.
I'll also unsubscribe from this thread after posting because as previously stated, this is like the 27,000th thread on this, and dear Lord is it old. No one here works for WotC. There's no one here that knows what's getting banned, and no one that can know until it happens, so there's no use discussing it unless it's in an economic "What if" fashion.
November 30, 2014 12:40 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #14
@vance3 you know, it would be much easier to "go read another one" if you actually put the subject in, you know, the subject line of the thread. Rather than just one word which could be talking about just about anything.
November 30, 2014 1:29 a.m.
Wizards have already said they're not going to ban it - no changes to the moderm ban list with the release of fate refoged.
Neither card is broken. The meta is diverse and healthy - all that's happened is that delver is tier 1 alongside all the decks that used to be as well. Delver decks are top 8ing regularly but still being beaten by pod, junk, scapeshift, etc etc.
Jeskai ascendancy threatened to be a thing but them no one actually played it. Absolutely nothing happened there - probably because the deck really isn't that good.
And that's it. The last set of results show everything's fine and wizards have said they're not going to change anything.
End of thread.
November 30, 2014 1:31 a.m.
Well, I'll attempt to add something new to this discussion. IF they are to ban anything right now in Modern, I believe it would be Treasure Cruise. Why? It fits a pattern with banning cards. Currently, Ponder, Preordain, and Ancestral Vision are all banned. These are awesome ways to generate card advantage and/or filter through your deck the most effectively (ignoring Brainstorm/Jace/Top + fetchland). The problem with Treasure Cruise is (in the decks that actually wanna play it) it becomes Ancestral Recall. I think it would be fair to ban Treasure Cruise and give Modern Ancestral Vision. There is no way to break Visions in Modern because Modern lacks the two best cards to use with it i.e. Shardless Agent and Bloodbraid Elf. You can not and will not build it into a cascade shell. Most combo decks do not want to wait 4 turns for the effect with the exception of maybe Ad Nauseum. I will admit that Treasure is functionally different from Preordain and Ponder because they are naturally 1 drops and Combo decks love that effect. No real Combo deck in Modern can afford a Treasure Cruise, but, by the same token, they will not want Visions.
TL:DR
Ban Treasure Cruise -> Unban Ancestral Vision
nuff said.
November 30, 2014 1:35 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #17
@ChiefBell, do you have a link to that quote? I can't recall anytime previously that the DCI has announced that they won't be making any changes, so far before a set release.
November 30, 2014 1:38 a.m.
shinobigarth says... #19
The only thing Cruise might need banned in is pauper only cause it's another thing that makes Delver pauper annoying.
November 30, 2014 1:57 a.m.
Named_Tawyny - What ChiefBell is referring to is the fact at PAX Australia, Aaron Forsythe said that they are "sticking to their upcoming changes" to the Fate Reforged bannings and that no "emergency bans" will be made prior to the Fate Reforged PT in February.
November 30, 2014 2:08 a.m.
The Doctor says... #21
I should start a wall of things that only fluffybunnypants has said.
November 30, 2014 4:11 a.m.
For modern... if they make the correct move, they leave TC alone, and ban Serum Visions instead, I promise that TC will be less influential without Visions.
November 30, 2014 4:56 a.m.
Ten Copper: Ive seen a lot of talk on various internets about banning Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time. I read quite an outstanding satire article on The Meadery which quotes you directly as saying youre going to ban Khans of Tarkir completely.
Aaron: That is not an actual direct quote! (laughs)
Ten Copper: Of course, of course. So are they headed for a ban? Or are you going to unban cards that have similar effects?
Aaron: We are going to let our next batch of Modern Grand Prix play out with these cards in the format, and were going to let Legacy go for a while. We have our normal banned and restricted list change coming up prior to the Fate Reforged release, were gonna stick to that. To say were not looking at it would be we are absolutely looking at what those cards are doing, they are definitely on our radar.
I dont want to scare anyone in case we end up not doing anything, but I mean Jeskai Ascendancy in Modern is a big deal. Dig Through Time in all of the Eternal formats is a big deal. Treasure Cruise in all of the older formats is a big deal. So yes, they kinda set off our alarm bells, but were going to get more data, were going to do our due diligence, were certainly not going to overreact to a tweet, or an article, or one single event or anything. Were definitely not banning Khans of Tarkir!
These are some of the more powerful cards weve introduced to those formats in a while.
Ten Copper: Did you suspect this would happen?
Aaron: We suspected it going in. We dont put a lot of time and effort into testing those older formats, we just kinda let things well see what happens, and we have the banned list as a catch-all for any problems that may arise. Theyve caught our attention, were going to see what happens, and use that data to make the best decision.
November 30, 2014 5 a.m.
WovenNebula says... #25
An Article on BaN mockery. In case anyone needs a laugh.
November 30, 2014 9:57 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #26
@ The Doctor That would probably be an interesting read.
November 30, 2014 10:29 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #27
I'm gonna jump on the banned wagon and say Storm Crow needs the hammer. I mean, it can be pitched to Force of Will...
November 30, 2014 10:35 a.m.
jandrobard says... #28
Wizards likes to ban:
1) Enablers for combos- check!
2) Anything that makes storm good - ehh...
3) Anything that warps the meta so that decks that can't beat one card are crushed - check!
4) Anything that shoots to the top - we'll see...
5) My hopes for an original deck - nope.
In conclusion Maybe Maybe not. It's all on the pros.
November 30, 2014 7:48 p.m.
I think in modern TC will be banned.. at the least. Jeskai Asc. will prolly get banned in modern as well.
November 30, 2014 10:14 p.m.
jandrobard says... #30
@Zuckfat Traditionally combo enablers not combo pieces are banned. Examples include Ancestral Vision, Blazing Shoal, Green Sun's Zenith, Ponder, Preordain, Rite of Flame, Second Sunrise, Seething Song, and Sensei's Divining Top.
November 30, 2014 10:55 p.m.
Jeskai Ascendancy decks are very capable of going off on turn 2 or 3, not something wizards usually wants, it also can take a long time to win after going off which is slow and uninteractive, which is why second breakfast is no longer a thing.
December 1, 2014 12:13 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #32
@Zuckfat: Although your point is valid, I would assume that the reason ascendency combo is a thing is because of its consistency. if they were to ban Glittering Wish, they would remove some of that consistency, making the deck worse, but not unplayable. Second breakfast is still a playable deck, but it isn't as good due to Second Sunrise getting the hammer.
December 1, 2014 12:18 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #33
Keep it unbanned. Is there a deck in modern/legacy that plays 4x Rest in Peace? Maybe a couple of Leyline of the Void?
I just wanna laugh at anyone playing Tarmogoyf, Treasure Cruise, Deathrite Shaman, Knight of the Reliquary, Snapcaster Mage, or Dig Through Time. Nice 0/1 for 
, BRO.
December 1, 2014 9:41 a.m.
I disagree that the meta is very diverse and healthy (as Burn and Delver are now about 30% of the meta-game), but yes, they will not be banned as there are many decks that are successful without running it.
December 1, 2014 9:53 a.m.
I dont think ether will be or should be banned. Especially Dig, it can only go into certain decks, requires lots of delving. I could see it on some combo decks just to make sure you get your pieces though.
I agree with ThatBlueMage about Jeskai Ascendancy, i think thats gonna come up a lot more soon. Some thing will need to be done. Nobody has time for this card.
For real though, can we chop the discussions about Treasure Cruise, please? My god, there is only so much aimless discussing it we can do, we need to all calm down and wait for WoTC to do something.
December 1, 2014 10:05 a.m.
Using the search feature on MTGtop8.com....
Looking at the last 2 months, there are only 2 decks at the Professional level of Modern play to make top 8...
Expand to Professional and Major events, and it only goes up to 3...
Expand again to include Competitive events, and it's only at 27 decks in the top 8...
Yes, Burn and Delver combined are now at 30% (not 30% each)... but burn has rapidly stopped playing Treasure Cruise, and Delver is the only deck to still be playing it consistently. - Delver sitting at 17% of the Meta is not a broken Meta... it's actually less than what Pod was sitting at for quiet some time.
Also, looking at just the last 2 weeks, UR Aggro is down to 8% (Pod is back to 18%)... the number of decks that were running TC appears to have just been a number of decks that people were testing out. It looks like they are realizing that, although a powerful card, TC is not required or broken. It's play is dropping.
December 1, 2014 10:26 a.m.
jandrobard says... #37
@Rayenous Exactly! Now we can all safely play TC in all our decks!
December 1, 2014 10:46 a.m.
Exactly, however the format has arguably become Pod, Burn, Delver, and everything else is Tier 2. Not saying there's anything wrong with modern at the moment, but for the time being there are 3 main decks dominating for the most part, and Wizards and players need to keep an eye and make sure none of them begin running away with an even larger percentage of the meta right now.
December 1, 2014 10:53 a.m.
Junk is still doing mediocrely. Affinity is doing well. Scapeshift is doing well. Twin is still doing acceptably.
It's definitely not a 3 deck meta.
December 1, 2014 12:44 p.m.
Stop calling for a ban on something that could potentially be good one day (Jeskai Ascendancy). That's ludicrous. How can you call for the banning of a completely untested deck. It's been seen like 5 times or something. And never at top level play. I mean that's like calling for the ban of the Paradise Mantle and Blistercoil Weird combo. That's a POTENTIAL T2 combo. I mean, no one ever plays it, but it still exists. Shall we ban every potential T2 combo that could possibly be played? Ridiculous.
December 1, 2014 12:47 p.m.
I agree we should let it play out for awhile and give people a chance to adapt. I just posted what I think will happen based on what wizards has done in the past. If I'm wrong I don't care, I can adapt.
December 1, 2014 6:21 p.m.
I think that TC is going to get banned. I think that wizards want to keep modern a creature based format. Although pod and junk are doing fine, many of the other creature decks are not very relevant. Affinity is a joke now and can barley keep up with the TC decks. Although there are synergy decks with TC and tarmagoyf, the decks aren't exactly "creature" decks.
December 1, 2014 8:07 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #43
@ pretickle um... no?
Affinity is still fast and can handle a Delver match up, it's still a very respectable deck. TC has not warped the format, nor is it likely to. And since when has Modern been a creature based format? Where did that even come from and what are you comparing it to? Legacy? I really don't see the logic in your assertions.
December 2, 2014 9:43 a.m.
The Doctor says... #44
Modern + Creature based format are two things that will never go together.
December 2, 2014 3:22 p.m.
To be fair The Doctor, two of the best decks in Modern right now are creature decks in Birthing Pod and 
/
/
Delver.
I guess Delver is debatable as a creature deck, but it does use creatures to win, so I'll count it.
December 2, 2014 3:25 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #47
The biggest reason I hope that it's not banned is because it's a common-level rarity card that can shut down Tarmogoyf. The same way fetches were played less in modern before DRS was banned, I'm hoping that metagame choices can make previously considered expensive staples eventually become cards that aren't as powerful as they once were.
December 2, 2014 3:39 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #48
The biggest reason I hope that it's not banned is because it's a common-level rarity card that can shut down Tarmogoyf. The same way fetches were played less in modern before DRS was banned, I'm hoping that metagame choices like TC can make previously considered expensive staples eventually become cards that aren't a prerequisite for starting modern players.
December 2, 2014 3:42 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #49
Ignore the first one, TO glitch caused a double post.
December 2, 2014 3:45 p.m.
It doesn't shut down tarmogoyf! Why is everyone saying that it does! This is absurd. There are even delver decks (running very little interaction - ie. very few ways of putting stuff in the opponents graveyard) that run their OWN tarmogoyfs. By virtue of the fact that Tarmo relies on BOTH graveyards he is almost completely unaffected by TC. There is no more evidence for this than the fact that the deck that won GP Madrid was a deck running TC with goyf.
JWiley129 says... #2
Old news is old. Also, T/O is as split as anyone is over whether TC or Dig should be banned. I'm on the "don't ban" camp, but there are plenty on the "BAN IT NOW PLOX" camp.
But I'm hedging on seeing how PT Fate Reforged comes out, since it's Modern.
November 29, 2014 9 p.m.