Battle for Zendikar
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on March 6, 2015, 4 p.m. by 00xtremeninja
Coming October 2015.
DUN DUN DUN!https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_cU4F2VAAAKM3T.jpg
Femme_Fatale says... #2
The mood of Zendikar and the land matters theme is what made it my favourite set. I'll be damned if they don't bring back landfall.
March 10, 2015 10:51 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #3
Doubt they will bring back Landfall, no matter how much I want them too. I'm pretty sure I read something about how Wizards realized it was too powerful for Limited or something. Sigh...
March 11, 2015 1:49 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #4
FU WOTC!
I AM LADY LANDFALL! YOU WILL HEED MY COMMANDS!!
March 11, 2015 2:34 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #5
I'm having trouble locating the source material where I may have read that though so I could be wrong.
Fetches + landfall in the same set, please and thank you.
March 11, 2015 2:47 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #7
So basically the story is that now that Ugins back, the hedrons are powering up again?
If so, WOTC might've accidentally created a new paradigm of time travel in where the universe is traveled back in time, but everything updates according to the times of the multiverse. Interesting.
March 11, 2015 8:03 a.m.
We don't know the story yet MagicalHacker. The only info we really know, story-wise, about BFZ is that Gideon is there and so is Ulamog. That's it.
March 11, 2015 8:07 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #9
Well I was talking about the video showing a hedron rebooting. Which I guess we can infer is probably because Ugins back.
Wait, do I need to give a spoiler alert?
March 11, 2015 8:12 a.m.
Well, again, we have no idea why the hedron started glowing. It could just be a random event. We don't know yet. I'm just going to wait until Khans block is done and we've seen Origins before worrying about the flavor of BFZ.
March 11, 2015 8:18 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #11
The hedrons actually activated once Jace, Chandra, and Sarkhan awoke the Eldrazi. They're a system meant to cage and keep the Eldrazi on Zendikar.
... Yet somehow they amplify their power, as shown on Hedron Matrix.
March 11, 2015 9:21 a.m.
fatty15501 says... #12
Just a note about the timeline; Just because something or someone left Zendikar on old Zendikar doesn't mean anything for Battle for Zen. Please remember that the entire timeline has been changed. Nicol Bolas did not succeed at killing Ugin and there might not even be an eye of Ugin anymore. Years have passed since the old timeline Eldrazi were released. Also remember Sarkhan, Jace and Chandra accidentally release the Eldrazi. How could that have happened with Sarkhan being a completely different person. The whole reason he was there in the first place was the madness. Well he solved that problem right up. So now I think we will have another event releasing the Eldrazi and they will be different versions of themselves. If Wizards follows the time rift they have created then I think this will be the first time on Zendikar in this version of time.
April 3, 2015 noon
GoldGhost012 says... #13
fatty15501 that is actually false. Only the timeline of Tarkir has been changed, with a few memories of people who have visited and left the plane. The rest of the Multiverse is unaffected by Tarkir's change in history.
April 3, 2015 12:06 p.m.
fatty15501 says... #14
GoldGhost012 Thats a load of crap and a physical imposibility. The only reason the Eldrazi got released is because Sarkhan the Mad was there. That person never existed in this timeline. Therefore no accidental release of the Eldrazi. Sarkhan will never even have access to black mana. Any person who understands anything about anything knows that all the other planes had to be affected by timetravel because of the events of the past that the people involved in the time travel were involved in. I could really care less about the rest of the crap that dude said cause it is wrong. If wizards follows your logic it will directly contradict the story as it has unfolded. This means that their story will not make sense. It will not be logical and will violate the laws of space and time.
April 3, 2015 12:15 p.m.
"That Dude" is Doug Beyer, the head of the Creative department for Magic R&D. So yeah, that is the official stance of Wizards, like it or not.
Also, you know what else violates the laws of space and time? Fireball
April 3, 2015 12:20 p.m.
fatty15501 says... #16
The bottom line is that the storyline has changed. Vorthos even says that the Planewalkers will "act differently" and "you'll have to see" how they reconciled the obvious holes in the story due to the changed Tarkir. Because of the people on Zendikar during the Rize of Eldrazi, the events that took place before cannot happen the same now. They might use some jenky excuse like "well ugin just goes instead of effing with Sarkhans mind". Simple and easy.
April 3, 2015 12:25 p.m.
fatty15501 says... #17
I don't think Fireball violates spacetime at all. Who cares who he is. You cannot write a continuation of a story without reconciling with the events of past storyline and have people actually follow. Besides that you didn't even read his post Ya Dingus. "It was also our assumption, though, that planeswalkers who visited Tarkir sometime between 1280 years ago and now could experience time-travel-altered events and act differently on other planes due to those changed events essentially, that planeswalkers were a way to transmit time-travel changes outside of Tarkir. That created some interesting story challenges, and I think youll see how we handled them as the story develops. For now, please continue to enjoy visiting Tarkirs past. Were getting to see a crucial, life-or-death tipping point in Tarkirs history, when clans battle with dragons for survival, and a certain spirit dragon still lives for now."
Can you understand what he is saying here? Seems like exactly what I said.
April 3, 2015 12:30 p.m.
He specifically says that altering the history of Tarkir only affects Tarkir. While changes can be transmitted by planeswalkers who visit Tarkir (see the recent uncharted realms story about Sorin) the basic storyline of MTG has not been altered. As for how Sarkhan works now that he has altered history, that hasn't been explained yet.
And my point with Fireball is that the game is about magic. You know, violating the conventional laws of the universe. It doesn't have to follow the "laws of space and time".
April 3, 2015 12:44 p.m.
fatty15501 says... #19
raithe000 You are just not able to comprehend logic are you? He says the story will change. His first statement is to reassure us that they are not going to re-write 1,280 years worth of history. The events of Fate Reforged will affect the events that have taken place on other planes via the planeswalkers who were on Tarkir at ANY TIME during that stent. There is no other way around it. Please stop replying cause you do not have the mental aptitude to understand what is going on.
April 3, 2015 12:52 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #20
You're implying that the entire Multiverse has changed, when really, it hasn't. Sarkhan is a now a living time paradox, yes. This means that he's able To exist in the past as Sarkhan the Mad even while being erased from history on Tarkir. Because he's just erased on Tarkir. He still exists in the rest of the Multiverse.
MTG is a fantasy game. Its laws of space and time are exactly what the creative team changes them to be. If this means that they can changed based on the story. They have been changed based on the stories before.
April 3, 2015 12:55 p.m.
fatty15501 says... #21
I didn't imply that at all. I am stating a fact: Every Plane on the multiverse has the POTENTIAL to change due to the number and power level of the walkers involved in Tarkir's events. I mean Ugin is still alive. How can that not have far reaching implications? Sorin, Ugin and the Lithomancer trapped the Eldrazi before. You don't think a higher being like Ugin who trapped them in the first place is going to have anything to say about them potentially escaping? I am simply saying that there are certain events throughout those years that cannot occur the way they did before. So if events that did occur before cannot now then what happens to the storyline of those events. It changes right? I am sure that Wizards will try and mitigate the changes as a result but there will be changes regardless. There are no 2 ways about it and that's what he is saying.
April 3, 2015 1:07 p.m.
fatty15501 says... #22
Gold Your right that they could just say he still existed the Mad. I would be disappointed because there are plausible explanations for the events to unfold very similarly instead of just violating fundamental facts. Regardless of the different rules that apply here in the Multiverse it would be a slight to the fans to just break the laws of space and time. They have demonstrated that these fundamental rules exist in this Multiverse. Sarkhan the Mad being on Zendikar would be essentially saying that Physics, Quantum Mechanics, Causality and the Law of Conservation of Matter just aren't a problem in Multiverse which hasn't ever really been the case before in the magic world. They have never had two of the same beings existing and not existing depending on what plane your on. I also think it would be much harder to reconcile the story in an entertaining manner if they do this. They would have to say that its this way because we said so. Doesn't seem very entertaining or even a story I would want to read.
April 3, 2015 1:26 p.m.
FreddyFlash311 says... #23
Ummm hey Fatty, it's just the backstory of the game. It's not priority #1 to WotC. I get it, there are some logic holes and things that don't add up, but seeing as they're writing the story that's there prerogative.
And really, they did a better job of it than Hollywood would have. Gotta give them that
April 3, 2015 6:02 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #24
@fatty15501
Ugin has been trapped in the Hedron Cocoon since Sarkhan put him in there, he only woke up after Sorin freed him in Dragons of Tarkir. Ugin hasn't been able to affect important planar stuff any more than he was when he died. From this point FORWARD he can do stuff but he wasn't around to cause time paradox shit.
Far as we know no other important planeswalkers have been affected by the change in timeline. Meaning that chances are VERY GOOD that Wizards isn't going to retcon a bunch of planes.
April 3, 2015 9:24 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #25
also idk it feels like a poor choice from a storytelling standpoint to go "Hey remember original zendikar? New Phyrexia? all those cool worlds and stories you liked? WELL TOO BAD. NONE OF IT ACTUALLY HAPPENED"
Idk why Wizards would retcon a bunch of stuff that didn't need to be retconned.
April 3, 2015 9:35 p.m.
I am curious to see the lands that come in this set. should be very noteworthy stuff.
April 5, 2015 12:38 a.m.
lebunny909 says... #27
i bet the planeswalker will be teferi cuz he messed with time or something. blue power!
April 5, 2015 7:35 a.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #28
So...are you trying to be funny or do you actually not know Teferi's not a planeswalker anymore?
April 5, 2015 1:04 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #30
He lost his spark when fixing a time rift during Time Spiral.
April 5, 2015 1:29 p.m.
NuBByThuMB says... #31
I can see both sides of this argument and there are a couple points I would like to touch base on.
First I think that no matter how we as a community feel about it, it's WotC's intellectual property to do with as they please.
Would I like to think that there were repercussions in the 1280 year alter reality created by the ressurection of Ugin, especially on Zendikar? Sure. But I guess maybe planes exist in their own pocket dimensions? I suppose that shores up the reasoning for why Planeswalkers who visited Tarkir will now be affected, but no major incidences on any other planes will be.
I still think it's hard to swallow that an Elder Dragon like Ugin remained on a plane like Tarkir for almost 1300 years ignorant to the mechanations of Nicol Bolas. I'm supposed to believe a planeswalker, one of the most powerful of them all, is gonna stay put for that long with no interest in walking off the plane.
It just feels dirty that all of the sudden this great power emerges from a history altering event in the past and then flashforward to current time and his existence has done literally nothing anywhere.
April 5, 2015 1:38 p.m.
GoldenDemon says... #32
NuBByThuMB Ugin has been in a coma in the hedron cocoon for the past 1300 years, dude, that's why he hasn't left Tarkir or done anything. Do you read the Uncharted Realms stories on the WotC website?
April 5, 2015 1:45 p.m.
NuBByThuMB says... #33
Mechanically, I can understand why WotC would avoid altering the timeline completely on every plane. It's probably a pain in the neck to rewrite 1300 years of history for so many Planes and then represent that in flavorful card space efficiently.
WotC R&D October 2035: "Hey guys, remember that one set back about twebty years ago that changed everything? We're finally caught up on the changes that occurred because if it. Now let's get to the real reason we brought him back."
But to be honest, I think it could squeeze a lot more flavor points out of previous planes in the Vorthos column. It's a good way to represent a living breathing multi verse, especially when they've already committed to such a huge change like the return of Ugin.
April 5, 2015 1:51 p.m.
bah-bammmm says... #34
watch wotc pull some bullshit and we will be disappointed. yes, fetchlands will be reprinted, but wotc WILL pull some bullshit.... something like no full art lands...
July 18, 2015 5:47 p.m.
HolyFalcon says... #36
"who cares about the story lets just wait and see...."
I care. And I'm sure everyone else does. With some of the lore we've gotten, and the confirmation of each ORI walker but lili being in BFZ block, be it on a card or in the story, I can say I think Chandra feels guilty about Eldrazi bring released so she comes to help. The pic of Jace and Ugin is cool, I think Jace is finally going to help fight the Eldrazi so Ravnica doesn't get eaten. Gidoen is just fighting and we already know that. The Nissa art is nice, can't wait for some Elemental action. But wait, there's more! Kiora has Thassa's Bident. The seas of Zendikar will crush the Eldrazi! Yay!
July 18, 2015 6:26 p.m.
bah-bammmm says... #37
i care too but there are so much different things that could happen in the story. wotc creative team has the power to decide. most of our gusses are probably wrong.
July 18, 2015 6:28 p.m.
bah-bammmm says... #38
and what happens with the mending? That changed everything in the multiverse too....
July 18, 2015 6:30 p.m.
lebunny909 says... #39
I didn't realise that teferi lost his spark. I'm kinda new so i dont know his story
July 20, 2015 6:07 a.m.
I don't think we're getting Zendikar fetches, the fetches in Khans were the opposite color of the core set lands, and we have the same core set lands this time. I wouldn't be surprised to see some man-lands though. :p
July 20, 2015 3:05 p.m.
bah-bammmm says... #41
man-lands? i think we will get fetches because if we dont everyone will throw a fucking hissy fit.
July 20, 2015 6:52 p.m.
Maybe they'll print fetches in the set after BFZ, but I don't think they will in BFZ, due to the coloring of Origins lands. In addition we already have proof that Wizards does not give one single shit with the packaging for MM2 and the lack of decent lands in MM2. They also didn't reprint a couple of cards that really needed it.
July 20, 2015 11:07 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #43
I mean, mistakes in one set don't mean that Wizards is forever damned to make mistakes. MM2 was a really fun limited environment and a not-so-great attempt to put valuable cards into the market. The packaging wasn't great, it was basically an experiment and it failed. whoops.
Personally as someone who doesn't really /care/ about Modern and older formats I'd like to see something new in BFZ like Enemy Man-Lands.
Also it'd be pretty cool if we could all talk about something other than fetchlands.
July 21, 2015 8:11 p.m.
We should have a singular BFZ thread where everybody posts. Considering Evolving Wilds just got leaked and we get three BFZ threads in the spoilers forum, I think it would be a good idea to try to get people to post it all in one thread. Maybe if there's a way to direct people who are posting in this forum or about BFZ to the designated thread. Dunno.
July 26, 2015 10:34 a.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #46
Okay, enough with lands. Mana does a lot, but this set isn't mono-land. It has zarking ELDRAZI. Let's talk about big bodies and colorless mana and how Mono-Red is doomed. Wait what? I'll just, er, scoots away
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #1
BlastercoolWeird Stop killing the ambiance man!
Though I'm pretty sure that this block will be much worse then the previous one. The original Zendikar block had so many broken cards that the new one will likely not live up to the (very high) expectations. Oh well, one can only hope.
March 10, 2015 9:50 p.m.