BUG leader, Mardu goodness, New Wrath :D
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Sept. 1, 2014, 11:34 a.m. by VampireArmy
Nigeltastic says... #3
So excited for Sidisi + Delve... The other two spoiled today are really really good as well. Howl of the Horde seems really strong in Jeskai, especially flipping off of their khan.
September 1, 2014 11:45 a.m.
@JWiley129 where'd you get that image? I'd like to put it in my deck description.
September 1, 2014 11:45 a.m.
The more and more spoilers come out the more and more torn I get. I've been playing B/G pretty much since Theros was released and have been playing Junk for the last few months. I was looking forward to playing Junk after rotation with the announcement of wedges, especially since the stuff that doesn't rotate from my current deck is all really powerful cards in those colors (downfall, courser, caryatid, elspeth, ajani, etc.). Then they announced background information on the clans and the Abzan (former Junk) clan is supposed to have a control aspect to them. Typical U/W/x control doesn't appeal to me and so I'm concerned about B/W/G turning into a bunch of board wipes and card draw and stall tactics like that because that's not what I typically enjoy playing. Plus, the more I read about the Sultai clan, the more it seems like they're the clan that fits the kind of play style I do like. Every day that there is a new spoiler I'm leaning more and more towards B/G/U but i'm torn because I've already invested a lot into getting the cards that I currently have and wanted to play post rotation. I also noticed that the Sulti clan is B/G/U and like I've said I played B/G most of this standard which is another reason I feel there may be cards more catered to my play style in that clan. Then there's her..... ahhhhhh.
TL:DR too many interesting new things... brain going crazy with excitement lol.
September 1, 2014 11:56 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #7
Sidisi is nice, but not my play style. She works nicely with Delve.
The wrath is cool. Not obnoxious like Supreme Verdict , but still playable and good.
I'm most excited about Howl of the Horde with Narset, Enlightened Master . If only she cost less :(
September 1, 2014 11:59 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox - Trust me, you DON'T want Narset to cost less than 6.
abenz419 - I feel your pain. Spoiler season takes a toll on us all.
September 1, 2014 12:03 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #9
honestly, Mardu and Jeskai play very similar. One just focuses on attacking first while the other focuses on casting spells first. Both are aggressive and combat oriented. I'll likely play largely these 2 clans together if i make a deck for standard...which i doubt i will
September 1, 2014 12:05 p.m.
VampireArmy - I disagree. Raid wants lots of creatures so you can attack each turn. Prowess wants some creatures with the mechanic and the rest as noncreature spells. Those two mechanics tell me to build DRASTICALLY different decks.
September 1, 2014 12:09 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #11
@ JWiley129 -- I know, ideally I see her as 
but that'd push her into being too good.
September 1, 2014 12:09 p.m.
Dalektable says... #12
New wrath! Awesome, control really needed that. I have so many different Ideas floating around that I want to do...Mardu Control, BUG Walkers, Mardu Walkers, Reid Duke's Yisan deck...so many options!
September 1, 2014 12:12 p.m.
Dalektable says... #13
OH, and what are peoples thoughts on Howl of the Horde in Modern Storm? Seems like an option at the least to me...
September 1, 2014 12:14 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #14
JWiley129 I was drawing a comparison on spells more than anything. like the new mardu spell today.
September 1, 2014 12:15 p.m.
So...is it true you can howl of the storm into howl of the storm to quadruple spells? It's a lot of mana but that's just gross...
September 1, 2014 12:40 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #17
I like that howl of the horde card, makes a post-rotation burn deck kind of tempting...
Attack with a guy, Howl, Convoke out a Stoke the Flames with the rest of my team, DEAL 12, WHAT NOW?
Hell just Lightning Strike on turn five. take 9 please.
September 1, 2014 12:43 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #18
Let's see... Attack with Jeskai lady, flip howl, howl, Lightning Strike , then you go first howl -> next spell copies 2x, second howl making the next spell copy 2x 3 times over, so next spell should copy 6 times total, then Lightning Strike for 18?
September 1, 2014 12:44 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #19
sorry, that'll be 21, 1 original, then 6 copies.
September 1, 2014 12:48 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #21
Also I think Sidisi is really cool. Like, I don't play this sort of graveyard-filling type of deck but she's cool enough that I'm interested in that deck now.
BTW with that first ability I'm really tempted to nickname her Brood Titan
Also End Hostilities is cool I guess, glad it's not on the level of Supreme Verdict . What makes it interesting for me tho is that it implies that maybe good and playable equipment will be a thing, given that if it was just to hose enchantments they would probably specify enchantments attached to the destroyed creatures rather than "permanents".
September 1, 2014 12:59 p.m.
Sidisi looks amazing to me. Not overcosted. Helps her clan amazingly with delve (is she a girl or guy...?). Combos off with things like Satyr Wayfinder and Nyx Weaver . And honestly not a bad creature as a 3/3 for 4. I'll take 3 in a sultai deck immediately.
September 1, 2014 1:05 p.m.
Spootyone - Sadisi is female. Three of the five Khans are female: Anafenza, Narset, Enlightened Master , and Sidisi. And I agree with your sentiment. Sidisi helps Delve considerably. It's key to note that each of the Khans we've seen combo nicely with their clan mechanic. Zurgo attacks each combat goes well into Raid. Narset lets you free-roll noncreature spells for Prowess. And Sidisi fills your 'yard for Delve. This means Anafenza (Abzan Khan) and Surrak (Temur Khan) will play well with their clan mechanic.
BlastercoolWeird - I think the bigger message with End Hostilities is that Auras will be bad. Note it says "Destroy all creatures and all permanents attached to creatures." This makes Bestow and other Auras a little worse, as you said. The fact it hits Equipments is just gravy. And yeah, it's not as good as Supreme Verdict but everyone is tired of that card anyways.
September 1, 2014 1:16 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #24
Sigh...
They printed another wrath...
And it's playable...
Screw control decks.
But seriously, the new cards are very cool. Howl of the Horde is a great Timmy card, while Sidisi looks legitimately playable as part of the transition of the BG Dredge deck to Khans Standard.
September 1, 2014 1:29 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #25
idk I recall the PAX worldbuilding panel mentioned that the Jeskai had machine constructs to protect their monasteries, and it's worth noting that Prowess and Narset also interact with artifacts in addition to instants, sorceries, and auras (I was talking with a buddy how DISGUSTING it would be to cheat in a Batterskull off a Narset activation.)
Also thinking on it even more, all three colors in the Jeskai trio have interaction with artifacts; White's love of equipment (Stoneforge Mystic Puresteel Paladin ) Blue's obvious artifact love (Tolarian Academy , Treasure Mage ) and red's skill with metalworking (Goblin Tinkerer and more recently Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient ) Also the UR artifact archetype in m15 with aforementioned Kurkesh, Ensoul Artifact ,Chief Engineer and most devastating of all...the Ornithopter
given End Hostilities is Jeskai aligned it would make a lot of sense they would be skilled in defeating what they are good at doing. So yeah actually I realized just now that artifacts being good in this block seems v. likely
September 1, 2014 1:30 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #26
Dammit, if they don't show more blue goodies, I may have to splash white for End Hostilities.
I wanna do it so bad...
September 1, 2014 1:31 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #27
Howl + Shrapnel blast is insane I've just realized. attack with any artifact creatures, drop that combo, sacrificing whatever you just attacked with and deal 15.
September 1, 2014 1:32 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #28
Scuttling Doom Engine ? 27 damage? 21 on which is unblockable?
September 1, 2014 1:37 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird - You aren't wrong there, but I'm with waiting and seeing if there are any playable equipment first. And I missed the PAX panel, so I'm waiting to see when it gets put up on Youtube.
September 1, 2014 1:39 p.m.
But they're always going to have some useful sweeper. Like, control is a part of the meta and will always be a part of the meta and SHOULD be a part of the meta to stop midrange from getting out of control, and generally punish slow creature decks.
September 1, 2014 2:25 p.m.
Even as a midrange player, I'm happy to see the wrath. Granted, this is mostly because I'll be playing blue to Negate it, sooo....
September 1, 2014 2:35 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #32
RUG Aggro shall be a thing. They shall play Negate . Control players will be like "Can't be countered", look at their card, and cry. It shall be glorious. Temur Ascendancy all the way!
September 1, 2014 3:01 p.m.
ChiefBell - I recognize the need for control to be in the metagame, but that doesn't mean I have to like it!
September 1, 2014 3:17 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #34
I'm glad they're doing conditional 3cmc wraths and powerful 5+cmc wraths now. Feels much better for the game.
I like all of these cards.
September 1, 2014 4:20 p.m.
I like the new wrath, but this changes the way the new control deck is going. I hope they make some good ramp spells to help a junk build get to 5 mana on turn 4, as there is a world of difference between clearing the board on turn 4 and doing it on turn 5.
September 1, 2014 4:29 p.m.
5 mana Wrath of God just so it can sometimes hit equipment and the odd Ensoul Artifact enchanting a Darksteel Citadel ? Dunno if I like that. I'd rather have Day of Judgment back. Currently, Theros Block Constructed's version of RDW kills on turn four. The mono-green devotion deck with Giant Growth s also kills on four.
This can be really bad for the format because it makes it difficult for control to survive. Meaning, we get stuck with a bunch of aggro and midrange decks.
Hopefully, I'm wrong and the format slows down a bit to compensate and aggro goes for turn five or six. A lot of the 2-power 1 CMC cards rotate with RtR, so maybe that will help.
September 1, 2014 6:09 p.m.
People seem to keep forgetting that things like Drown in Sorrow and Anger of the Gods exist. These are ways to deal with the very early threats from things like RDW. Something like this 5-mana wrath can be good as a 2-3 of depending on the matchup, where bringing in more against midrange is a good idea. One has to adjust to live in this new world without Supreme Verdict !
September 1, 2014 6:12 p.m.
@Spootyone: Neither Anger of the Gods or Drown in Sorrow deal with turn three Polukranos, World Eater off of Sylvan Caryatid . Or Courser of Kruphix . They help against RDW, sure, but part of why Standard has had a four mana Wrath of God for the past decade was so there would be a catch all removal spell to prevent opponents from over-extending.
Wrath of God effects are to help curb against turn four kills by aggro and against midrange decks pooping out hands of fat creatures. When control has to draw two separate boardwipes at different mana costs, such as Bile Blight and AEtherspouts , they lose to variance more frequently.
It's like if WotC didn't print a one mana, two power creature or a Glorious Anthem effect one year for Standard. Aggro players would be complaining their decks are too slow and can't get enough damage in early to beat midrange and control.
September 1, 2014 6:20 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #39
The control decks really don't have much..then again lately the control decks are playing Sylvan and other bs to ramp/block. Not that they should have to.
September 1, 2014 6:33 p.m.
sylvannos: I won't completely disagree with you there. But I think when you're facing down a T3 polukranos, you should be playing spot removal/bounce for him. Yes, having to have multiple answers for multiple decks is more of a challenge then jamming 4x Supreme Verdict into every control deck, but that's part of why the card was so backbreaking to the format -- it made things too "easy" for the control player.
Control is going to look very different post-rotation. And honestly I'm not even sure where it will be going. Without Sphinx's Revelation to come back from an aggressive start, it's hard to say how these new breed of control decks will stabilize -- regardless of their board wipes. Maybe it'll need another amazing lifelink creature like Archangel of Thune . Or maybe it will have to resort to different techniques for keeping up with aggro, such as walling them out with something like Nyx-Fleece Ram . I think that spot removal and counterspells are going to be a lot more important than they were before simply BECAUSE there will (probably) be no amazing 4-mana wipe.
Maybe control just won't get enough support, either. Now, I'm not saying that would be super healthy for the format. But maybe control will have to wait until Fate Reforged before it becomes a strong archetype again.
September 1, 2014 6:33 p.m.
Quadsimotto says... #41
Howl of the horde may be reason enough for me to start playing decks running lots of red.
September 2, 2014 12:56 a.m.
rho.reduction says... #42
Sidisi looks awesome, she'll make for some awesome graveyard interaction in games. Anafenza seems too narrow an effect to play, especially against any deck other than a sultai delve deck. Her ability is so specific to counter the zombie spawn effect of Sidisi, I think it will be largely ignored unless delve is stupid.
Howl of the hoard looks really neat. Not much to add there.
The board wipe looks reasonable. As a future Temur player, I look forward to my mainboard negates along with Magu maulers. Cheers to the Temur ascendance!
September 2, 2014 3:46 a.m.
Anafenza is ridiculously good. 3 mana 4/4 with upsides. Buffs your creatures as you smash face or let's you get 2 outlast counters in one turn. Screws over BUG entirely.
It'll never be a dead card just because it's so efficient at buffing your creatures or just straight up winning the game. If the opponent doesn't answer her your board state just gets worse and worse.
In conjunction with the fact that abzan will be in colour for all the killspells and exile shenanigans makes her very good.
September 2, 2014 4:39 a.m.
@Spootyone: I think the main problem with Supreme Verdict was that it's been the only 4 mana board wipe for a year (since Mutilate cycled out), which is a problem because of its mana cost. Had it costed something like 1WWW or 2WW, I think we'd have seen a much healthier Standard. Because it costed 1WWU, it has a mana cost that forces you into two colors by playing it. I don't think it's because it makes things easy for control, rather, it can't be played by other archetypes.
If it had costed only one color or there had been another four mana Wrath of God , possibly with a drawback, other archetypes could play it. Instead, R&D made it 1WWU. Which meant you had to be playing Azorius. Which meant you had to be playing Control. Which means this one deck had exclusive access to a very board answer, warping the format around it.
And I for one am glad to see Sphinx's Revelation go. Card is just broken in Standard, considering Stroke of Genius and Braingeyser have both been either banned or restricted at other points in the game. I'm with you in that I want to see control find other ways to stabilize. I'm getting sick of R&D printing these "Does this resolve? Okay I win," cards. Aggro just doesn't come back after fighting Tooth and Nail to get the last point of damage in, being down to one or two cards, then the control player jumping back to 10 and drawing four or five cards.
I think what pisses me off the most about it is they made it a mythic rare. The price of Standard has rapidly increased and it really hurts new players the most.
September 2, 2014 7:19 a.m.
I think straight out control may be sitting this standard season on the sideline. Sure we've not seen many spoilers yet, but from where they are taking the game, they seem to want people to have interactive games and be able to play with their dudes. They know that getting spells countered is not fun, and neither is losing your entire team. So those cards are now a little more narrow and you can't just rely on them.
Not knowing how to properly play against control, last year I decided I would learn by playing control myself for the entire season. Ends up, I love being a control player, however I found that most people hate to play against it. Having guys sit in front of me at FNM, knowing they are about to face control, sigh and basically be already defeated, I can understand Wizard's reasoning.
I think control will need to take another line, so rather than having 2-3 win-cons it will be more mid range control. I'm okay with that.... but doesn't mean I don't want a Damnation reprint ;-)
September 3, 2014 7:49 a.m.
Not necessarily true. If people do go the midrange route, control will have a fantastic time preying on the slower decks. I mean we currently have a few viable control options spoiled and the entire set isn't out yet. However, If we don't get MORE control standard will be bloody horrible and just turn into a large creature-fest which is dumb and boring. Control needs to be around to stop midrange becoming too strong.
September 3, 2014 7:59 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #48
So far a vast majority of things spoiled have a casting cost of 5. What's up with that?
September 3, 2014 8:23 a.m.
@VampireArmy: Probably an attempt to slow the format down more.
September 3, 2014 8:24 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #50
I can imagine. Though drafting this set would be hell on the aggro guy. This thing is midrange city
JWiley129 says... #2
Sidis, Brood Tyrant seems pretty good...
September 1, 2014 11:36 a.m.