Characters missing from storyline...
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on April 13, 2016, 2:21 p.m. by capriom85
Way early for legitimate speculation, but who are some of the key players that should be on Innistard that you'd like to see a card from in Elsritch Moon? What would you like to see them do?
The list is long of missing people who graced us with their presence before. I think from the given storyline and current card depictions we can possibly expect to see Liliana, Tamiyo, Bruna, Gisela, Thalia, a possible Geralf & Gisa, and maybe a few more I missed.
I'm personally pumped to see a new Thalia. I would honestly even be happy with a reprint of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben but I won't hold my breath on that.
OmegaAura113 says... #4
If this time we had 4 walkers for a 270 card set, I want 3 walkers for Eldritch Moon. Long shot, but maybe a R/W/B Nahiri? (Three color walker anybody?)
April 13, 2016 2:34 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #6
There has never been two PWs of the same type in a block before, so I don't think another Nahiri is likely. I would like a Tibalt or Thalia or Tamiyo.
April 13, 2016 3:05 p.m.
xavrr, what a cool idea!!! Perhaps her ultimate would be to get an emblem that gives free clues or allows you to do something similar to Tamiyo's Journal?
TMBRLZ, I agree. Fair card. Logical. We are dealing with WotC, though. Also, I feel like since her story has evolved, I believe she was promoted, her card will likely show this and she will have gone through some sort of character evolution.
Regigigas23, seems only fair to me. Honestly, I called Sarkhan evolution in Dragons early and people told me I was crazy. If Nahiri is going way off the deep end, why not?
Pokemaster325, it'd be cool. All that black mana exposure in the Helvault was a cool idea with Avacyn. Turned out to be wrong, so maybe Nahiri got tainted. Plus the getting screwed over by Sorin didn't help at all.
April 13, 2016 3:08 p.m.
TheFoilAjani, we got Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker in Khans and Sarkhan Unbroken in Dragons. Tuvalu would be cool to see again. Tamiyo's almost a given with the story line. Thalia too.
April 13, 2016 3:10 p.m.
Clues you control become 2/2 creatures in addition to their other types?
April 13, 2016 3:16 p.m.
iBleedPunk says... #10
Or maybe an emblem that makes clues free to sac and draws you 2 cards?
April 13, 2016 3:17 p.m.
I think Pokemaster325's idea fits Tamiyo flavor better. I even like the idea of "When you can't a spell investigate". -3 "investigate for each creature you control" or "investigate for each instant/sorcery in graveyard"?
April 13, 2016 3:25 p.m.
I would hope Wizards doesn't make a Tamiyo with an ability that alters how sac'ing a a Clue works...
It would mean she would only be playable with things that produce Clue tokens... completely making her useless outside of Limited and Standard.
Something like a "+2: Investigate" wouldn't be too bad... mechanically linked to the Block, but not 'tied to it'.
A simple reprint wouldn't be horrible... her Ultimate has interesting interactions with 'madness'... discard a spell, cast it, then return it to your hand.
April 13, 2016 3:43 p.m.
I'm going to keep saying it.
Ludevic.
Formerly one of the plane's richest men, now one of it's most notorious necroalchemists and scientists.
I want a Ludevic so fucking badly. The dream lorewise is that he's experimented on himself so much, he's become an Ooze (So the card can be G/U), immortal but weak save for his mind and diminished sanity, but he'll probably end up being similar to Geralf, just a nutty mad scientist who makes lame zombies.
April 13, 2016 3:53 p.m.
Yeah I'm against walkers that have block-centric abilities.
That's part of the reason Nahiri, the Harbinger is particularly undesirable overall. Her abilities scream of SOI focus. A walkers abilities, if any, should have very loose focus on it's staging set/block's mechanics. Their abilities should be primarily centered around their colors.
The only feasible use for Nahiri beyond Standard is in combo decks. And 
is a weird color splash for most modern combos.
April 13, 2016 3:57 p.m.
Sceadugenga says... #15
I want to see Geralf and Gissa get legitimate cards (since their EDH incarnations are both horrendous). I'd also love to see the Markov clan leader have a card--I forget his name.
April 13, 2016 4:48 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #16
I consider Khans/Dragons to be different in regards to the whole double-PW rule. Not only did they do two Sarkhan, they did 2 Surrak, Sidisi, etc. So I think that Khans block is an outlier to the "no 2 same characters in a block" rule. So I wouldn't hope for another Nahiri, save time travel stuff happens, which would suck.
April 13, 2016 4:57 p.m.
McSleuthburger says... #17
If there is a clue driven Tamiyo (which im totally fine with) im just kinda hoping for not blue because then I would have to change my G/W investigate deck :(
April 13, 2016 5:24 p.m.
TheFoilAjani, no, that's not how that works. One block, 2 Sarkhans. Saying "I don't agree with it because (insert special situation)" doesn't work. The Khans block negates your statement and that's ok.
Rayenous, I doubt the new Tamiyo if it happens will be linked to clues. Exactly for why you don't want it.
April 13, 2016 5:50 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #19
You see, what you paraphrased me as saying is not it what I said, nor is it reflective of what is being argued here. Khans Block, your example, is the special circumstance in this scenario, not mine. I am saying that, in all of Magic's history, there hasn't been two of the same walkers in a block. Your example was, "I disagree because of this thing that happened 1 time", i.e. "(insert special situation)". I'm not quite how you managed to paraphrase that so backwards.
Maybe I should have been more specific as to why Khans block doesn't work as an example as to why there would be 2 Nahiri. My reasoning is this; there were only 2 Sarkhans because the story allowed it. This is true for Sidisi, Surrak, Narset, Zurgo and Anafenza. They were only added as duplicate characters due to the alternate timeline story arc. SoI doesn't have a AU story. Also, in the stories that have been coming out recently, PWs don't have time to develop so much as to have new abilities, much less manifest a new color between two sets.
This rule of no PW dupes generally holds true for any given Standard. Core sets are different, as they often have no real story and just a place to dump cards, but real sets with a story almost never have a Planeswalker shared between them when they are both in standard. The only example I can think of is... Sarkhan the Mad and Sarkhan Vol?
Anyway, I hope this is a little more detailed than my previous post.
April 13, 2016 6:32 p.m.
TheFoilAjani, you exact comment was "there has never been 2 PWs of the same type in a block before". You made a blanket statement that is NOT true. Even 1 occurrence of that happening makes your argument invalid. The fact that Khans was a time travel block has NO bearing on the fact that they printed 2 Sarkhans in the same block. Your argument was that it never happened. Evidence shows it did. You are incorrect. Special circumstance or not you can't make the statement you made and be correct. No animosity, not try to be condescending, it just is what it is.It's an invalid as saying "black never printed extra turn cards" even though Temporal Extortion exists. Makes the statement invalid even though it was a "special" set where up was down and blue was black.
April 13, 2016 6:46 p.m.
Sceadugenga says... #21
....except it doesn't make his statement invalid. Khans was an exception, so has 0 relevance to analysis of any other set, for any reason.
April 13, 2016 6:50 p.m.
The statement made said that instance never happened. The instance clearly happened, so it is an invalid statement. You can't say Khans is an exception based onbanalysis of other sets and then exclude Khans because it invalidates your point. I'm not comparing Innistard to Tarkir. I'm comparing the fact that it happened to the statement that said it didn't. This is primary school logic guys. "if x then y" = "If no Planeswalker was ever printed in the same block then Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker and Sarkhan Unbroken do not exist." Both cards exist, so the statement is invalid. No way around that, even saying Khans was a special exception. No, Khans was its own individual set just like every other block. The cards were printed. Period.
April 13, 2016 6:58 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #23
capriom85 M'kay, so you finally made your point clear. I think you and I've been missing the point of each other's statements. I'm not claiming that Khans never happened. I'm saying that Khans can't be an indicator that there will be a Nahiri in SoI. You're confused because I poorly worded my reasoning in my initial post. Is this correct?
April 13, 2016 7:07 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #24
OKay, capriom85 so let's admit you were technically right, and agree that he probably should have said 'never happens except for very specific circumstances' Are you happy now?
It's kinda like saying that Red never gets cards you can discard for mana, and then pointing to Planar Chaos, etc...
April 13, 2016 7:12 p.m.
TheFoilAjani, probably. However, neither of us said anything about basing SOI printings on KTR printings. It's not even my personal spec to get a second Nahiri in SOI. I doubt it based on SOI alone. You just said "never", so I automatically thought Sarkhan and Sarkhan.
April 13, 2016 7:12 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #26
capriom85 Okay, glad we could clear that up. My entire arguements were anti-Nahiri for EDM, but you were just talking about the fact that I misspoke/typed. That was a wonderful waste of time.
On a different note, what do y'all think a new Tibalt would look like?
April 13, 2016 7:17 p.m.
Named_Tawyny, I was never unhappy. The statement made was incorrect and I could not see a line of reason to the opposite based on logic. Honestly, the existence of Planar Chaos negates these arguments. The word never is finite. Special circumstance are still included when using concepts like never and always. We can say counters are always blue, except when their green Avoid Fate. Direct damage is never white unless it's Gideon's Reproach. The second example may not be as concrete because there are more non red spells that deal damage, but you get my point.
Can this thread please go back to what we want to see in terms of major characters as far as Eldritch Moon goes?!?!
April 13, 2016 7:18 p.m.
New Tybalt can't get much worse can it, TheFoilAjani? Not knocking Tybalt, but he wasn't very payable due to that "random" piece of the +1. I imagine he would still have some type of mind control/creature swap ability. Maybe make opponent discard? If he gets better and is a 3+ drop, then maybe his +1 would be balance as draw one pitch one.
April 13, 2016 7:21 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #29
capriom85 Maybe something like this?
++++++++++++
Tibalt, the Semi-Playable
Planeswalker- Big Tibs
1RB
Loyalty: 1
+2: Each player discards a card. If they do, that player loses life equal to the CMC of the card they discarded.
-3: Each opponent discards a card. If it's a creature, put it onto the battlefield under your control. Otherwise, they lose life equal to that cards CMC.
-9: Each opponent loses life equal to the total CMC of each permanent they control. Then they discard their hand.
April 13, 2016 7:31 p.m.
well you certainly get +1 for the name of that Tybalt. As to its playability: I think that +2 is broken. You will plan to have land and 1cmc stuff to pitch. The current madness possibilities make it too powerful for a madness deck as well. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not a madness expert. The -3 seems powerful as hell and feels more like a -8 that should be "all players discard their hands. Creatures doscarded in this way are or onto the battlefield under your control. They gain haste. Exile them at end of turn." It seems balanced because there are archetypes that just des T work against. Also, it can be hosed by Hallowed Moonlight and the like. Tybalt wants to see play, that's for sure. Is there any reason to expect a printing of him outside of we are on Innistrad? Most of my predictions are based on hope
April 13, 2016 7:40 p.m.
OneItsStarted says... #32
Please let there be Ludevic as a planeswalker. This is all I want. A plainswalking necromancer/necroalchemist. Enough said.
April 13, 2016 11:53 p.m.
OneItsStarted says... #34
It is not known, as he hasn't been developed enough to say much about him, but I think it would be cool if he was a plainswalker.
April 14, 2016 7:01 a.m.
As much as I know about Ludevic, he seems to fit the mold of a Dr Frankenstein type character role. That said, I could see an entirely reasonable possibility of him in fact being a Planeswalker. Spark ignites in some freak lab accident, or when one of his monsters turn on him. BOOM Now he travels the planes in search of pieces to make the "perfect" creation.
April 14, 2016 7:29 a.m.
TheFoilAjani, something occurred to me last night too late to want to post it, but still in my mind this morning about Tybalt.
I'm not sure the random clause can ever be removed from his "draw/pitch" ability because he messes with Devils. Devils probably mess right back with him, so flavor wise he isn't looting, he may in fact be experiencing some type of dementia or other mental anguish from his melding with all those devils. Tybalt may very well be a sick, sadistic, almost skytzophrenic type. (I know for a fact I butchered that spelling). Just a thought...what do you think?
April 14, 2016 7:34 a.m.
PistonGolem says... #37
I hope in Eldritch Moon for a legendary werewolf, probably the result of Ludevec and Geralf's collaboration, Ludevec, Geralf, New Lili, Tamiyo, and a card that is the thing inside the portal. The problem is that if they add a ton of legendary creatures, they might as well call it Commander 2016...
April 15, 2016 8:59 p.m.
PistonGolem, legendary werewolf would be so cool. Probably similar to Mayor of Avabruck Flip on steroids. RG for sure.
Theros was basically a commander set, too with all the legendaries. It worked well enough.Are Ludevic and Geralf responsible for werewolves? Imbot up on my lore and never heard that.
April 15, 2016 9:38 p.m.
PistonGolem says... #39
I doubt that they would work with werewolves, they stitch dead things together capriom85... But it would be cool if they were initially splicing living creatures, and a werewolf broke out and started terrorizing... That would explain why they went for dead test subjects.
April 15, 2016 10:23 p.m.
Ahhh...I see what you're saying. I thought they were more of the Dr Frankenstein type. Would be cool...no reason they can't "modify" an existing werewolf for fun and it escapes.
April 15, 2016 10:26 p.m.
PistonGolem says... #41
Holy Crap... A ZOMBIE WEREWOLF! capriom85, You are a Genius!
April 15, 2016 10:52 p.m.
Haha, PistonGolem! I do what I can. That'd be crazy, but it would almost have to have black mana in the casting cost which would hurt its potential as a werewolf tribal commander in EDH. No one wants to play Jund werewolves...they want RG.
April 15, 2016 10:58 p.m.
OneItsStarted says... #43
Even better than a zombie werewolf.... A zombie angel. Best of all, it makes sense with the current storyline of Innistrad. Sigarda hinted at there being a fourth angel (besides Avacyn who was created by Sorin), in the trio of Innistrad's major angels who associated with demons and was killed by Avacyn (article: A Gaze Blank and Pitiless ). In the card Seagraf Skaab, Ludevic also hints at some new and important zombie being created by himself and Geralf. Are the two hints related? Possibly! But if they are it would be amazing.
April 17, 2016 3:03 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #44
I definitely believe that Ludevic should appear in person in Eldritch Moon, as he has been mentioned numerous times in both flavor text and stories, so it would be a terrible waste for him to never appear.
April 17, 2016 3:22 p.m.
PistonGolem says... #45
I think that if there could be some tribe mixing it would be epic. Spirit Zombies, Were-angels, what's not to love?
April 17, 2016 5:51 p.m.
iBleedPunk says... #47
People seem to forget Withengar, who's current whereabouts are unknown. To see a non-flip Withengar would be pretty amazing
April 17, 2016 6:01 p.m.
I realise the argument over Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker and Sarkhan Unbroken is over, but I want to point out that, technically, they both were AND weren't printed in the same block.
The Khans 3-set block was designed to allow the shift to 2-set blocks, making Khans and Fate one block and Dragons and M15 another block.
As a 3-set block, they are printed together, but when viewed as the 2-set blocks, they are printed seperately.
MaRo quote from the following article: Metamorphosis
From now through "Blood" block, Standard will stay as is, at two three-set blocks. Then, with the release of "Tears" block, the first spring block (in the spring of 2016), Standard will change over to be three two-set blocks. For the purposes of rotation, we are splitting the three sets of the Khans of Tarkir block, plus the core set to be released in 2015, into two, two-set blocks: Khans of Tarkir and "Dewey" is one and "Louie" and the 2015 core set is the other. Khans of Tarkir and "Dewey" will rotate out spring 2016 as a unit, and "Louie" and the core set will rotate out fall 2016 as a unit.
April 17, 2016 8:05 p.m.
Ugh...no comment whatsoever about this. Way too complicated to argue. We would all die of old age arguing for whether or not this statement truly makes Khans and Dragons from separate blocks or not. It also doesn't necessarily pertain to the previous dicussion since Rosewater clearly states that this segmentation was "for the purposes of rotation". The previous discussion should probably ignore rotation specific issues.
xavrr says... #2
I want a clue-themed Tamiyo... +2: Investigate
April 13, 2016 2:25 p.m.