Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Jan. 14, 2015, 9:35 a.m. by aeonstoremyliver
So, is Collateral Damage a better Goblin Grenade? Being at Instant speed is definitely worth noting. Granted, you loose resources/board presence via a critter, however as a coup de tat or a saving throw against removal, I think it could be worth testing in RDW across Standard, Modern, and maybe even Legacy. I do like Fling better in certain circumstances, but I like this over Shard Volley.
Thoughts?
If you're creature base can support Goblin Grenade, Goblin Grenade is probably better, just because of all the modern creatures with a toughness of 4 or more. (Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Siege Rhino, Tarmogoyf, etc.)
January 14, 2015 9:41 a.m.
In eternal formats outside of Pauper - no. In standard, hell yes, rabblemaster and jeskai tokens in general will eat this up.
Goblin Grenade is not a fair comparison - 3 damage vs 5 is a serious difference and they slot up in the same deck anyways.
January 14, 2015 9:41 a.m.
What do people think of Collateral Damage in a burn deck? When I can no longer attack with my creatures (because of blockers), then this is just another Lightning Bolt!
January 14, 2015 10:20 a.m.
In a deck with 12-14 creatures total, it is really risky. Shard Volley is better, since you have access to your lands at all times (for a modern deck). Fireblast is best (in a legacy deck).
January 14, 2015 10:23 a.m.
Quite simply....
Any deck not already running Lightning Bolt won't run this.
Any deck running Lightning Bolt that may consider running this has some questions to ask before putting this in... "Will I have a sac'able creature reliably enough to run this?"... "Are there better burn/removal options than this?"... "Is burn the best option for this card slot?".
I have a feeling that very few decks will find this reliable and consistent. At best, I could see it as a possible sideboard... but even then, there are likely better options.
January 14, 2015 10:37 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #8
With Goblin Rabblemaster, Hordeling Outburst, Flamewake Phoenix, Firedrinker Satyr, and Foundry Street Denizen in Standard I think it is playable.
January 14, 2015 11 a.m.
Collateral Damage is Lightning Bolt in Standard for Red decks, because what red decks don't run token generators? If they don't run Goblin Rabblemaster they likely run Hordeling Outburst and/or Akroan Crusader. Also, Mono-Red burn has a ton of toys now. I don't think they can beat Siege Rhino, but it's a deck that can show up.
January 14, 2015 12:33 p.m.
I'm using Collateral Damage now in my token deck and its proving to be awesome. Here's the list: The New Jeskai Tokens for reference.
January 14, 2015 1:23 p.m.
This is Standard obviously.
Outside of Standard, Lightning Bolt is simply miles ahead. I can't see this getting played unless a deck really feels like it needs more than 4 copies of Lightning Bolt. As long as they have the creatures to spare.
January 14, 2015 1:24 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #12
Boza, I concur that Fireblast is waaay better.
So what about Collateral Damage alongside some Young Pyromancer tokens? Does this mean that Delver got a bit better, or do you all think that Delver won't bother?
January 14, 2015 1:41 p.m.
Kinda cool interaction with Young Pyromancer. Sac a token and getting a replacement right away is pretty cool.
January 14, 2015 1:43 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #15
in goblins, no, use the Grenade. you should be comparing it to Reckless Abandon instead. the difference is trading instant for sorcery to get 1 more damage. generally you want instant, so i think Collateral is an improvement over Reckless.
January 14, 2015 2:03 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #16
I haven't seen a competitive Legacy list run Goblin Grenade... The effect is similar, hence the comparison. The advantage of Collateral Damage is being able to respond at Instant speed. A creature heavy deck like Zoo may run this alongside Bolt, Helix, etc. Zoo has a greedy mana base and doesn't want Shard Volley. If Pyromancer sticks, or is targeted for removal, CD can be very effective in a Delver shell, perhaps. Although there is a greater card pool to draw from in eternal formats.
January 14, 2015 3:56 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #17
if you're talking just legacy then you wouldn't even run CD.
January 14, 2015 4:03 p.m.
JexInfinite says... #18
It's super good for RDW and RW Weenies, also great in any deck running Hordeling Outburst and Raise the Alarm.
This will not be played in any format other than standard due to better options available. In RDW, Shard Volley is better because you run more lands than creatures in your deck.
January 14, 2015 4:10 p.m.
superkamiguru7506 says... #19
There are decks the this will cost zero board presents like anything running blood soaked champion
Servo_Token says... #2
In a goblins deck, no, the grenade is still better in my opinion. While the new card is good, I wouldn't say that it's significantly better than any other burn spell with a set back. It requires you to have board presence in the first place, which isn't always something that a burn deck can do. In RDW, however, it is just lightning bolt 5-8 and definitely worth the include. Not sure if it's any good for standard yet.
January 14, 2015 9:39 a.m.