Commander 2016 = 5x 4-color decks.
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on May 16, 2016, 10:45 a.m. by Rayenous
Confirmed that the C2016 will be 4-color.
Link: Here
This is one of many product announcements being made today. - Link for the rest: Here
I suspect that we will get Creatures that have Casting costs in 2 colors possibly with passive/triggered abilities related to those colors and then they will use activated abilities to add in the 2 other colors. At least for one of the possible commanders. Sounds like each deck will have 4 total commander choices. I wouldn't be surprised if they also print new versions of the Nephilim, akin to how they printed Teysa, Orzhov Scion and then Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
Also the fact that they are making exactly 4 commanders for each deck is interesting.
May 18, 2016 1:20 a.m. Edited.
They could, in theory, already have all 20 legendaries finalized; but wait and see what the buzz from the fan base is leaning towards before choosing the five headlining generals (I assume the main general will be cmc 4 using all four colors)
I like the idea that one will be for tiny leaders; either using hybrid mana (as stated on page one) or something like the Fate Reforged legends that have one color in its casting cost then the rest of the colors in their abilities.
I also hope we get a cycle of legends with double colors, i.e. 
, etc. Like Progenitus, they'd be insane
Lastly, hopefully there will be a cycle with protection from the fifth color, i.e. 
has protection from , has protection from , etc
With the release almost six months away, all we can do is guess! lol
May 18, 2016 7:30 a.m.
I like that, unlike previous years, we have not 3, but FOUR commanders to pick from in the set. Obviously this is intentional, due to the sheer lack of existence of any 4 coloured legends. And they'll each be FOIL!
The last bit doesn't excite me THAT much (I prefer non-foils- Yugioh's level of obsession with foil scarred my mind XD), but I know that foils are popular with the vast majority of players.
So with this in mind, they'll be 20 different generals, and since we know all 20 will be new, that leaves 36 new cards left to guess.
My $0.02s on what they could is as follows:
A cycle of 4 colour mana rocks
A cycle of four colour taplands- essentially like the trilands ala Arcane Sanctum et al
A cycle of 4 colour Charms/Commands. Not necessarily with all 4 colours in cmc, could use hybrid colours, or be in the same vein as cards like Induce Paranoia and Batwing Brume, where you get different effects depending on the mana spent.
And finally, a cycle of uncommons that interact with the commander/4-colour creatures in some way.
May 18, 2016 7:51 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
SInce there was some talk of naming conventions can we please also adopt a color order convention using the Nephilim as a template. Much like seeing Esper listed as takes a second to register as the same as it just adds needless confusion to list 4 color in a random order. For reference the order WotC used on the Nephilim was clockwise around the color pie starting after the omitted color.
May 18, 2016 9:06 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #6
I don't know, I anticipate them making the nephilim legal commanders somehow. There are at least 4 different approaches to do this, and maybe it's far-fetched, but I will be surprised if it doesn't happen somehow.
May 18, 2016 9:09 a.m.
I really think from a gameplay standpoint we'll see the legends be 2 or 3 colored with the 3rd/4th color(s) being an ability. To make every legend solid 4-color may be frustrating from a gameplay standpoint. In addition, if each legend was 2-color with a 2-color ability, Wizards would be possibly setting us up for nice 2-color reprints.
May 18, 2016 9:54 a.m.
Hybrid mana could be used to relieve mana constraints on Commanders.
A Commander could simply require 
to cast...
or perhaps need 6 mana, but in the form of 
to make it almost any combination of colors.
It's also possible that the Commanders have casting costs that don't require 4-color mana, but have color based abilities. - Similar to Yasova Dragonclaw or Alesha, Who Smiles at Death.
It could even be really silly, like to cast a 1/1 Unblockable, that has the ability ": ~ gains Double Strike until end of turn."
May 18, 2016 10:04 a.m. Edited.
@mande "frustrating" ?
It's supposed to be a challenge. If something like 5c was easy then everybody would do it. The point is that with more colors you get more utility options, but you need to work for it
May 18, 2016 10:47 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #11
Okay, yes there are lots of ways they could do it:
All four colors in the mana cost with no hybrid mana.
All four colors in the mana cost using one of the two types of hybrid mana and/or phyrexian mana so that at least three of the four colors are required.
All four colors in the mana cost using one of the two types of hybrid mana and/or phyrexian mana so that at least two of the four colors are required.
All four colors in the mana cost using one of the two types of hybrid mana and/or phyrexian mana so that at least one of the four colors is required.
All four colors in the mana cost using the generic-hybrid mana or phyrexian mana so that none of the four colors are required.
Three of the four colors in the mana cost (possibly using hybrid or phyrexian mana to make between 0-3 colors required to cast the commander), with at least the missing color as a mana symbol in the rules text in the cost or effect of an activated ability or in a static or triggered ability (possibly using hybrid or phyrexian mana so that that color is not required), or as the color indicator.
Two of the four colors in the mana cost (possibly using hybrid or phyrexian mana to make between 0-2 colors required to cast the commander), with at least the two missing colors as mana symbols in the rules text in the cost or effect of an activated ability or in a static or triggered ability (possibly using hybrid or phyrexian mana so that those colors are not required), as the color indicator, or as a combination of both.
One of the four colors in the mana cost (possibly using hybrid or phyrexian mana to make between 0-1 colors required to cast the commander), with at least the three missing colors as mana symbols in the rules text in the cost or effect of an activated ability or in a static or triggered ability (possibly using hybrid or phyrexian mana so that those colors are not required), as the color indicator, or as a combination of both.
None of the four colors in the mana cost with the four missing colors as mana symbols in the rules text in the cost or effect of an activated ability or in a static or triggered ability (possibly using hybrid or phyrexian mana so that those colors are not required), as the color indicator, or as a combination of both.
Sorry, I combined some of the possibilities into one point.
May 18, 2016 11:13 a.m.
MagicalHacker I don't think they'll add phyrexian mana, unless it's on theme; ie: there's a creature from the plane of New Phyrexia as a commander, which is unlikely, as the vast majority of Legendaries in New Phyrexia are mono coloured (only 2 in the block itself, Jor Kadeen and Glissa, and then of course Ezuri).
But other than that, your suggestions are sound.
May 18, 2016 11:33 a.m.
Pallyy6099 says... #13
I'm not sure exactly how to word this, but maybe they're going to release a mana rock in each deck that says something like, "For each colour of mana you pay for this card, you can tap it for that amount of mana in that colour," and it costs 
or 
mana
I.E. Your playing and You play the card (lets assume it costs 4 mana four convenience) And you pay , and it taps for amount of mana to your mana pool. But they your friend Boomerangs it, and then because you dont need all four anymore, you pay , so they it taps for four mana
May 18, 2016 12:42 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #14
That is kinda broken. Astral Cornucopia is about the closest I feel wizards is ever going to print to that.
May 18, 2016 12:52 p.m.
Chromatic Lantern, I hardly knew ye. Prepare to be $20.
@Pallyy6099: So kind of like Sunburst?
May 18, 2016 2:51 p.m. Edited.
nobu_the_bard says... #16
They can be transforming: Archangel Avacyn Flip is white/red despite only having white mana symbols. We could get like "Sleepy Angel" (white with blue mana cost ability) transforms into "Angry Demon" (black with red mana cost ability) or something.
Even a color-defining ability works (but is kind of cheating probably).
**If someone else noted this I apologize, for I missed your note.
May 18, 2016 2:59 p.m.
Couldn't they just add a mana filter rock that adds one of the four colors to your mana pool? Or just give every deck a rock that adds one of the five, obviously meaning that the fifth color would just come back as colorless for you, netting nothing.
Rainbow Rock 
, TAP: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Something to that general concept. Seems a lot fairer than having a rock that adds four mana to your pool. Even if they balance the costs.
May 18, 2016 3:03 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #18
Or they could reprint Commander's Sphere and totally sidestep the issue of creating a new complex mana rock! :D
May 18, 2016 3:05 p.m.
or MagicalHacker says... #20
Guftders, I think phyrexian mana is locked into being specific only to new phyrexia, but I don't think that the plane is anti-legendary though. I've noticed a steady increase in the amount of legendary creatures in sets, and the amount of colors those creatures are. Look at old zendikar block, and you will see only one multicolored commander: Wrexial, the Risen Deep. Fast forward to battle for zendikar block, and we have 6: Munda, Ambush Leader, Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper, Omnath, Locus of Rage, Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim, Jori En, Ruin Diver, and Mina and Denn, Wildborn.
nobu_the_bard, I guess my previous comment counts, even though I didn't mention that the missing color(s) identit(y/ies) could be on the back of a DFC?
May 18, 2016 3:35 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #21
I would like to see 4 color costed commanders myself, having a couple in cost and a couple more in an ability seems not quite right in the flavor department.
A plus of a 4 color costed commander might be that they are more stand alone powerful, as the more color intensive a card, the more potent wizards is content to make it.
I also dont feel like you get 'shoe-holed' into any specific strategy as people here mentioned previously. In fact completely the opposite as you have access to 4/5ths of the 'strategies' or 'themes' in MTG. A ton of people already just play their commanders for the colors, which would seem legit for 4 color decks. Im a fan of basing decks around my commander though, I will admit, but I would rather have the chance to play a 4 color deck with a 'useless' commander than just not be able to play a 4 color deck at all. Admittedly you can run a 5 color commander and just use 4 colors of it, but thats clunky, unflavorful, and just downright weird.
Its not hard to make a reliable 4-5 color landbase either, and there are options for both budget and more competitive methods. You can spend $2000 and have fast lands, or $15 and have tap lands, so both sides of the gaming spectrum should be happy.
All in all, Im stoked to see 4 color decks coming out, but I just pray they give me a B/U/G/R commander with some self-mill/discard/graveyard synergies as I have a nephilim deck around such things that could use a legitimate commander :P
May 18, 2016 4:10 p.m.
readerrw07 says... #22
Well... I'm off to go design a No-White zombie deck. Maybe make a list for Whiteless Eldrazi tribal too. Yay new deck types to design.
May 18, 2016 5:07 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #23
Maybe it is because I don't really feel 4 color are needed, but honestly I am a bit disappointed. I would have rather have had 5 different 5 color decks each with a specific focus or another wedge set. I don't see the big deal with 4 color, just run a 5 color commander and only cast it off of omnilands or omnirocks.
I also didn't really like the mono-color decks and they were a big hit. Here's hoping that they continue the high quality and these satisfy the people that do want them. I may get excited for specific ones when they come out if they do make them interesting enough. So maybe WotC will make me see what all the hype is about.
May 18, 2016 5:51 p.m.
readerrw07 says... #25
I hadnt thought of that one, but it's similar to Eldrazi with Displacer. one white card isnt really worth being 5-color, and Id probably rather have the land recursion, incresed dredge mechanics, land fetching/fixing, and some other fun recurrable creatures like DredgeVine. I will probably make lists for both too, Because I already have well over 100 decks on here, no reason not to make every deck possible :P
May 18, 2016 6:21 p.m.
MagicalHacker Oh no certainly not- Scars block had exactly 13 legendary creatures there- only two are multi coloured, and none contain phyrexian mana.
I'm not saying it cannot be done, just that:
- lorewise, phyrexian mana symbols can only be used on spells/permanents associated with New Phyrexia
- There are no multi coloured spell/permanents (currently) with Phyrexian symbols
- Scars Block had a sheer lack of multi coloured creatures (only 2 in total, both Legendary)
Therefore, reasonable to assume that it is highly unlikely that they will print any 4 coloured creatures with Phyrexian symbols. But hey, Wizards do like to push design boundaries sometimes, it's certainly not one of those non-zero probabilities.
May 19, 2016 7:47 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #27
So while I agree with those statements, I disagree with the idea that those last two have set up any kind of precedent. If you look at the amount of multicolored cards per block and at the amount of legendary creatures per block since 8th edition, you will see an increase over the long term, suggesting that WotC has changed the way that they build sets to include legendary creatures and multicolored cards as a natural part of every block, meaning that the fact that new phyrexia I slow in those two categories to be an indication of that paradigm shift rather than an indication of the properties of that block.
The real reason that I think it's unlikely that we will see phyrexian mana anywhere in this product is because WotC is either too narrow-focused to think about it, or they give us too little credit to appreciate the inclusion of this really interesting part of mtg.
May 19, 2016 8:33 a.m. Edited.
Gidgetimer says... #28
I think the real determining factor for not doing Phyrexian mana in Commander sets is balancing the cards for the higher life totals and the constant availability. So far any card that has a Phyrexian mana cost only has Phyrexian and Generic mana costs. Think Norn's Annex, Moltensteel Dragon, and Birthing Pod. I know that I personally would play a commander costing 
on turn one every time if it were anywhere near powerful enough to be a four drop. You are looking at a 4 mana discount off of a spell for just 1/5 of your starting life total. Not to mention that any untapped land puts it at just 6 life.
May 19, 2016 1:22 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #29
And why would they assume you wouldn't pay life? I would build with the idea that a phyrexian mana is more akin to a half mana or maybe even one fourth mana. And the I would make the generic mana be like 2-5, so a mana cost of 
on a card as powerful as a 4 drop seems pretty solid.
May 19, 2016 2:08 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #30
I really hope they don't overcost cards just to support a gimmick that I don't care about. A minor effect and draw a card is a 1 mana ability a la Gitaxian Probe. Instant speed Threaten costs 5 Act of Aggression, Turn Against. Apostle's Blessing correlates directly with Razor Barrier. Dismember is in an odd place because there are few cards that do -5/-5 at instant speed Pull Under does it for 6 but is common, Executioner's Swing does it for 2 but has conditions and is common, Grasp of Darkness does -4/-4 for 2 at uncommon. Overall -5/-5 at instant speed for 3 cmc seems about average for the effect. Up until this point a Phyrexian mana has had the same effect on power:mana as any other type of mana. If they do all of a sudden decide that Phyrexian mana shouldn't count as a full mana for power:mana comparisons they are going to end up printing a lot of awful cards.
May 19, 2016 2:50 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #31
In that case, you must consider Treasure Cruise extremely over costed!
Sarcasm aside, I would love to be able to play a Rage Extractor-style deck in commander, but there's currently no commander for that. Just because one person cares nothing for a specific thing, it doesn't mean that some/many would enjoy it.
May 19, 2016 3:22 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #32
Please don't straw man my argument. No one had said anything about delve before and it is obviously a completely separate instance from Phyrexian mana. Phyrexian mana has the precedent of being considered the same as regular mana and it hasn't broken anything. Since delve is a cost reducing ability it obviously raises the mana cost on spells it is put on. You can't slap delve on a spell and leave the mana cost and power the same.
I also thought I had made it clear that even though I don't care about this whole 4-color thing, I realize other people do. I am just hoping that WotC produces a product that will change my mind. I would really love to get hyped over C16, but overcosted cards are not going to do it.
May 19, 2016 3:47 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #33
Wait, how is phyrexian mana different than effects like delve? Isn't paying life instead of mana reducing the amount of mana needed to play the spell?
May 19, 2016 7:46 p.m.
Postmortal_Pop says... #34
Honestly the Alesha, Who Smiles at Death model sounds great honestly, like each creature is 1 or two colors with abilities that cost the color for their flavor. Like a while creature that has tap abilities for blue, black, and red. That way it doesn't have to incorporate all of the flavors into one creature and end up with something tasteless.
May 19, 2016 9:14 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #35
That is a bit of a narrow assessment of the mechanics. You are paying some other resource in place of the mana. You need to assess the competing pulls on that resource as well as the consequences for running out of it, how much you can reduce the cost and the availability of the resource.
That last part is what makes balancing phyrexian cards for commander difficult. Life usually only ever goes in one direction, life gain isn't usually worth the investment. Higher life totals and constant availability to recast the same card throws off the math for any legendary creature in commander. In this scenario it is kinda obvious that 2 life does not hold the same value as one mana. In 60 card constructed life totals start lower so 2 life is a larger percentage. You also can not reuse a card without some outside effect letting you do so.
Delve uses a resource that is constantly being generated. Initial balance on cards in graveyard is 0, but each turn a card or two is likely to go to the graveyard. By the time you are likely to delve you will most likely have enough cards in the graveyard that you do not have to worry about availability of cards to delve away.
Up to this point Phyrexian mana has only ever been used as one or two symbols in a cost. This is a conscious design decision so that the amount that Phyrexian mana can reduce the cost is pretty small. Adding more symbols to support more colors on the card is going to throw off the balance of the mechanic.
Delve reduces the colorless portion of a spell. Colorless portions are usually the larger component of one and two color spells. Delve has a more consistently high capability for reduction.
Although it is a bit of big deal there isn't much to say about the consequences of running out of each resource. The fact that one starts at the lowest it will ever be and the other starts at the highest it is ever likely to be speaks volumes about the difference in consequences to running out. You can freely spend cards in graveyard without fear of reprisal. Every time you pay life for something you are slightly closer to losing.
The competing pulls on life are many. You have a mana base reducing your life total in order to be more consistent. Your opponent is constantly reducing your available life. Many spells or abilities also compete for your life.
Cards in the graveyard only matters for Delve. Even other graveyard mechanics only care about specific cards most of the time. The most common strain is going to be too many delve cards in the deck.
As you can see the mechanics aren't really all that similar. One allows you to spend cards you normally wouldn't to get a discounted rate on spells. The other uses a resource you are already actively managing to fix colors and slightly reduce the casting cost of spells. There is also the precedent to consider. Phyrexian spells have always been a similar CMC to the effect they are close to. Changing this will make the spells feel overcosted even though it is simply balanced for a different format.
May 19, 2016 10:06 p.m.
iBleedPunk says... #37
Internet pissing contest at its best haha
This. This is why I don't need cable folks
May 20, 2016 2:04 a.m.
Having thought about it, if there's a decent nonRed reanimator commander, I might buy the non red precon, since I already have a Sultai reanimator deck, and I've always wanted to add in stuff like Unburial Rites, Karador, Ghost Chieftain and Avacyn, Angel of Hope.
As for nonGreen, I'd want either a good artifact general, or a good control general (think about the crazy combination of Esper, Grixis, AND Jeskai control, all meshed together XD)
May 20, 2016 7:23 a.m.
Guftders - that seems reasonably terrifying.
Well looks like I'm gonna build a lock deck with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and Knowledge Pool.
May 20, 2016 4:17 p.m.
Bellock86 I already have a mono blue build of that deck (it doesn't link up properly tho) :P
May 21, 2016 6:38 a.m.
I honestly wouldn't want the nephilim to be made legal as commanders, regardless of how cool they are. Ink-Treader and Yore-Tiller are dramatically more powerful than the other three by a margin so wide you might as well be playing a legacy deck against a casual pile. Can anybody on this site honestly say they think Glint-Eye Nephilim or Witch-Maw Nephilim would ever be able to beat a not-mana screwed Ink Treader deck without teching against it? No. Four color commanders are gonna be sick, the nephilim wouldn't be.
May 21, 2016 10:50 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #43
I hope nonblue (jund-white sounds confusing) has a commander that stops counterspells and nonblack has a commander that stops tutors. Nongreen could stop ramping, nonred could stop noncombat damage or some kind of combat-y thing, and I guess nonwhite stops life gain? Or maybe board wipes?
May 22, 2016 4:31 p.m.
MagicalHacker. I honestly don't like the sound of that at all. having a bunch of commanders that basically nerf what their opposing colors do seems.... boring.
I also don't want a cycle. Think like the praetors (Sheoldred, Whispering One or Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite for reference). I would prefer they not all be the same creature type/ have the same or similar origin unless they REALLY hammer out the fine details with said stories.
My desires for these are fairly simple.
1) reasonably coated - this is the most important to me because they are already going to be 4 color. That in and of itself is a hurdle.
2) Adequate power/pay off - this goes with #1 in that they are already 4 colors of mana. Their respective power level needs to be adequate to the investment.
3) Not have some goofy draw back or other similar nerfing - commanders are supposed to be relatively powerful.
I'm hoping for something akin to the C13 commanders (Oloro, Ageless Ascetic and the like).
They were reasonably powerful although not back breaking to play against and could be built around with variable power level. Playing Prossh, Skyraider of Kher but no one in your group does/likes infinite shenanigans? Better leave out Food Chain etc.
All in all I'm reasonably excited for these and can't wait to see what they cook up.
May 22, 2016 9:43 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #45
WicKid52 Yes I definitely do think that Glint-Eye or Witch-Maw could defeat an Ink-Treade deck without teching against them. I consider both of those two to be pretty powerful honestly. Both can be very successful voltron commanders, and the only real thing you need to do to win is give your commander hexproof/shroud, which is run in almost every commander deck anyway, especially in voltron decks.
May 22, 2016 10:09 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #46
Bellock86, while I agree that a cycle would be lame (except making the nephilim legal commanders), I do hope we eventually see a commander stops tutors dead in their tracks. The reason is because I think that a lot of playgroups could the lift their house ban on infinite combos since tutoring up pieces is usually what people do with tutors that upsets other people.
May 22, 2016 10:38 p.m.
iBleedPunk says... #47
RoarMaster WicKid52 I have seen Witch-Maw Nephilim go bonkers on a few decks 1v1, namely against Kaalia of the Vast and Zur the Enchanter which made me question every life decision I have made. So yes I do believe that Witch-Maw can easily win in match ups with its fellow Nephilim without teching but there are too many variables to be 100% sure.
I wish the Nephilim cycle would have been Legendary so bad :(
May 22, 2016 10:46 p.m.
MagicalHacker - Are you forgetting about Ob Nixilis, Unshackled?
May 22, 2016 10:49 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #49
JWiley129, waiting until (on average) turn 6+ to make it so that a player has to lose 10 life and sacrifice a useless creature before they instantly win doesn't count as "stopping tutoring for infinite combos" in my book.
May 22, 2016 11:20 p.m.
Magical Hacker - Aven Mindcensor does exist as well.
Having a legendary creature that nerfs something so fundamental as searching your library seems short-sighted.
Hear me out.
Nerfing your opponents from searching stops tutoring of all kinds. Fetches? Forget it. Hell even Evolving Wilds would be shut down by what you're requesting. That one ability stops certain tutor effects in , and not to mention hoses some commanders.
Scion of the Ur-Dragon is now useless. No commander should have the ability to completely nerf another.
And dealing with combo is part of the game. If your deck isn't fast enough to stop a combo deck, then tweek your deck and make it faster. Your EDH Deck can never be too fast. I'm sure you know all of that already but it's still true.
K34 says... #1
I propose the easiest way to name them; by simply saying what they aren't.
E.g.
would be called "redless". It lacks the mystique that Kala's suggestion has, but it will be much easier for new players or those unfamiliar with the nephilim to remember.
May 18, 2016 1:04 a.m.