[Community Discussion]: The official Fate Reforged spoiler discussion
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 27, 2014, 11 p.m. by Epochalyptik
This will be the official one-thread-covers-all discussion for Fate Reforged spoilers.
Fate Reforged overview:
Number of Cards: 185
Prerelease Events: January 17-18, 2015
Release Date: January 23, 2015
Game Day: February 13, 2015
Official Three-Letter Code: FRF
MTGSalvation spoiler list
MythicSpoiler spoiler list
MagicSpoiler spoiler list
Quadsimotto says... #2
Well i can sure see the hype for the soulflayer, In the right deck he will be formidable. Whip decks just got a sick tool. You could be looking at an early game , straight up wincon. Lets see Turn one land drop thoughtseize or despise turn two landrop and taigams scheming turn three your second swamp and he can fall on the board with god knows what applied to him. Say a chromanticore,sagu mauler, and a colossus of akros hit the yard with the scheme Just the idea of a turn three 4/4 with flying,hexproof,trample,indestructible,first strike,vigilance, and lifelink makes me throw up in my mouth a little. Its unlikely but it is possible. So yeah i would say it is better than hooting mandrills
December 29, 2014 6:53 p.m.
@Wodar I have a UG Flash/tempo deck and manifest is very interesting to me. I think the topdeck manifest that we've seen so far is bad for tempo since it'll often be noncreature and then you lose value. BUT if they printed a card like "
Instant - Manifest target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard" that would be insane (Instant or sorcery because 'target card' would make it 
I think). A 2/2 Flash creature for is exactly what the deck needs, and reusing counterspells or draw spells for it would be awesome. Even if it makes Dig Through Time a little worse.
December 29, 2014 7:03 p.m.
@Quadsimotto yeah, but dedicating your first three turns to a 4/4 that if you're lucky will have two keywords on it doesnt seem very good. Also there are no decks playing Chromanticore, Sagu Mauler, or Colossus of Akros, and in a sultai shell both the colossus and chroma are dead cards. For soulflayer to be good you'd have to jam your deck with junk rates and dead cards. It just doesn't seem particularly viable
December 29, 2014 7:10 p.m.
Haha, thanks mate! Please tag me in that list when you come up with it...I'd love to see it, and I'm thinking of brewing one myself.
December 29, 2014 7:12 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #7
Give some of these cards about a day to be up to my quality of standards. Just have to wait for the cache to refresh to my images.
December 29, 2014 7:38 p.m.
@ Quadsimotto and Chubbub: You may not even have to run Chromanticore or any of those others to make Soulflayer nasty. Just think of exiling Gurmag Swiftwing this card can be absurd. Its more realistic.
December 29, 2014 7:48 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #10
Soul flayer is pretty good, i just don't really want to build around him which you really need to do.
December 29, 2014 7:54 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #11
Just think of registering Gurmag Swiftwing in your 75 for a tournament. Feels like throwing cash away.
If there is a card currently in Standard you want to exile it probably is that one though.
December 29, 2014 7:55 p.m.
Kolaghan replaced Bladewing the Risen as my tribal edh general so fast.
December 29, 2014 8:02 p.m.
Quadsimotto says... #13
TY almerican that is a prime example of how that card can be abused. My example was far more extreme and borderline retarded ( no offense intended) but i definitly see potential for him in a sultai whip deck.
December 29, 2014 8:04 p.m.
Quadsimotto says... #14
I am thinking that hand denial just got much better with that dash mechanic making t harder for sorcery speed removal to stick those targets
December 29, 2014 8:10 p.m.
KrosanTusker says... #15
As if Thoughtseize wasn't good enough already...
December 29, 2014 8:14 p.m.
Quadsimotto says... #16
No doubt, no doubt but it makes a case for running it AND despise.
December 29, 2014 8:20 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #18
Speaking of Thoughtseize...
T1: Bloodstained Mire - fetch Swamp - Thoughtseize targeting yourself and discard your keyword creature.
1 Black 3 Grave
T2: Bloodstained Mire - fetch Swamp - cast Soulflayer - get jiggy with it?
Run Tormenting Voice, burn, Hero's Downfall, Goblin Rabblemaster, and other removal.
December 29, 2014 8:33 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #19
yeah or just Despise yourself to save the 2 life. you better make sure you're giving Soulflayer hexproof though or he's just gonna go away
December 29, 2014 8:42 p.m.
Quadsimotto says... #20
You know the card is somewhat good when it demands attention be given to it. I will be making a build around killing with it after release. I will most likely purchase a set of them pre release because i expect this one to gain and retain value
December 29, 2014 8:50 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #21
Despise is opponent.
Can't say it won't happen but that can net 8 damage by turn 3 with haste or double strike. Could be enough backed up by burn, disruption, and other hastey threats.
He also gives 2 devotion for Erebos and Gary. Something else to consider.
Not going to shoot him down right away.
December 29, 2014 8:55 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #22
Did no one consider the fact that a Sylvan Caryatid can be in your graveyard?
If Soulflayer doesn't see mainboard play it WILL see sideboard play against control decks for the decks that run green. We have a lot more wraths so Sylvan Caryatid will be in the graveyard a lot more often, and Hornet Queens are nice and fragile.
I actually think that it is really good in mardu. Monastery Swiftspear, Ruthless Ripper, Iroas, God of Victory, Purphoros, God of the Forge. Now he does something with those discarded gods. I kinda wish he was a different colour though, because of Mantis Rider.
Hold on, would Soulflayer get lifelink, haste and vigilance from Butcher of the Horde or no?
December 29, 2014 9:02 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #23
In fact, I see mardu midrange. Ruthless Ripper, Butcher of the Horde, Seeker of the Way, all topped up with Soulflayer.
December 29, 2014 9:04 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #24
Butcher only gives flying and Seeker doesn't give anything to Soulflayer.
December 29, 2014 9:29 p.m.
Quadsimotto says... #25
I dont think the flayer would get more than the flying from the demon and nada from the seeker but i am a dimwit when it comes to rules and regs.
December 29, 2014 9:33 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #27
I don't think he's going to be the next Stormbreath Dragon, or even the next Siege Rhino, but he'll see play.
He can be fit into Aggro, Midrange, or Control decks, he can come out easily on T3 (Swamp, Thoughtseize / Forest, Satyr Wayfinder / Swamp, Soulflayer), and in an Abzan, Sultai, or Jund build, there are lots of creatures that both work with your deck and will look nice in the yard. Also plays nicely (at least from a self-mill angle) with Whip decks.
Stick a God or Sagu Mauler in there and he's protected, and lots of things to give flying, first/double strike, and deathtouch.
He's not format breaking, but he'll certainly see play.
December 29, 2014 9:35 p.m.
Femme_Fatale Soulflayer would only get flying from Butcher of the Horde because the butcher's second ability is a triggered ability and not one of the keyword abilities mentioned on Soulflayer.
December 29, 2014 9:35 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #29
Also, I think it would have been really funny had they included 'Defender' on the list.
December 29, 2014 9:37 p.m.
Programmer_112 says... #31
I just realized, Soulflayer might be a legit reason to Thoughtseize yourself. Standard is going to be fun.
December 29, 2014 9:43 p.m.
nighthawk101 says... #32
What's more interesting to me is Master of Pearls + Manifest.
It's a cheap Overrun effect that hopefully won't be difficult to pull off (if we get more Manifest cards, that is).
I'm more excited for Soulflayer in Modern.
December 29, 2014 9:46 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #33
:o, that is right nighthawk101. So we can have a 5 colour morph shenanigans deck that uses really cheap creatures with morph and flip effects. Woot.
Soulflayer in modern would definitely be fun. I expect pod. I mean, it comes out really quickly, and then can be sac'd to find a 7 mana creature. Like Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite.
December 29, 2014 9:49 p.m.
nighthawk101 says... #34
December 29, 2014 9:52 p.m.
nighthawk101 says... #35
Huh, the picture for Shamanic Revelation on mythicspoiler changed to an English version with different art. Could it be a promo?
December 29, 2014 10 p.m.
Does anyone think a deck involving Prognostic Sphinx + Whisperwood Elemental would be worth it? Set up the cards you manifest to be morphs with effects cheaper as their CMCs, like Icefeather Aven, Master of Pearls, Kheru Spellsnatcher... Maaaayyybe Thousand Winds... Secret Plans... IDK, it'd probably suck just as much as morph decks do right now. Even in a UG ramp/devotion shell.
December 29, 2014 10:05 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #38
Not another pointless noncombo in the combase...
I'm glad I've given up on that thing.
Also, only in EDH would that be viable subrosian. It is FAR too janky in any other format.
December 29, 2014 10:08 p.m.
@Femme_Fatale: Sorry, it's a habit to put the + inside of the brackets for some reason. I'll try to avoid that in the future. And you're probably right.
December 29, 2014 10:13 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #40
wonder if there will be something that gives Dash to the next creature you cast, cause then Hooded Assassin would be fun post combat.
December 29, 2014 10:19 p.m.
I really REALLY hope there are some cool Blue manifest cards. I get that most of the manifest effects will be from the top of the library, but there's a lot of missed potential there. Something like this would be hilarious:
===================================================
"Spelljack Jr." 
Instant
Manifest target spell. (Put it onto the battlefield face down as a 2/2 creature. Turn it face up any time for its mana cost if it's a creature card.)
===================================================
Or, for an actually KIND of playable card...
===================================================
"Remandifest"
Instant
Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way, put it on top of its owner's library instead of into that player's hand. Then that player may manifest the top card of their library.
===================================================
This would be interesting. If the spell's a creature spell, they can just manifest it and turn it face up later and the spell was basically Remand minus the cantrip. If it was a noncreature spell though, they can either cash it in for a pretty meh 2/2 or they just got Memory Lapse'd. I don't know if the power/complexity level is too high, but I think the design opportunity is pretty neat.
December 29, 2014 11:06 p.m.
Crap, on Remandifest I meant "put it on top of its owner's library instead of into that player's graveyard", obviously.
December 29, 2014 11:08 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #43
Or the rulings could say this:
When you cast CARDNAME choose a player.
Counter target spell that player controls. If that spell is countered this way, that spell's controller may put it on top of his or her library.
The chosen player manifests the top card of his or her library.
December 29, 2014 11:14 p.m.
Hmmm... That would make it a little less powerful as they could just ditch a noncreature spell and hope to manifest a creature. Still a very interesting gameplay design though, IMO.
After thinking more, I guess you could draw parallels to a more costly Swan Song, but flying is a big deal. And it would hit any spell... Maybe just staple a cantrip to it and make it rare? IDK. The power level of manifest in general is really baffling to me, even though the initial impression is that it's fairly low-power.
December 29, 2014 11:48 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #46
The thing about manifest is that it's (from most of the cards I've seen) pretty straight card advantage. Whisperwood Elemental or Ethereal Ambush are both putting cards straight from your library into play. They create a lot of possibility, and can draw removal because of what they might be.
They're also, unlike (for example) Zombie tokens, a lot more resilient. Bounce a Manifested creature, and you might be putting an instant back into your opponents hands.
It's not quite straight card draw, but it's definitely card advantage machinery.
December 29, 2014 11:52 p.m.
MurderHood says... #47
Who else thinks Flamerush Rider and Hornet Queen is disgusting?
December 30, 2014 midnight
Guys, I just came up with the best manifest spell ever.
Morph
Sorcery
Manifest a creature card in your hand.
Wodar says... #1
TheHroth you are a genius. 5 color Mid-range with a lot of self-milling like wayfinder and Sidisi, Brood Tyrant and delve cards like Murderous Cut and Treasure Cruise and of course Soulflayer for even more Chromanticore!
As soon as FRF is out, I am making this deck.
December 29, 2014 6:37 p.m.