Eldritch Moon Spoiler Thread
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 20, 2016, 11:36 a.m. by DarkLaw
I don't think there is one yet, at least not one posted recently. If there is, feel free to correct me.
Player3.14 says... #2
Whoops, I see you already mentioned the cast trigger in your edit. Sorry about that.
June 27, 2016 4:13 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #3
I am not at all happy with the new meld mechanic; what was WotC thinking when they made it? This game predates Yu-Gi-Oh, so there is no need to copy it, in my mind. However, I will say that the new angels are supremely awesome, especially Brisela, who, despite her rather uncreative (although fitting) name, has some very nasty abilities.
Are the melded creatures colorless, I presume? If so, what indicates them as such? is it the eldrazi symbol in the upper left corner of the card?
June 27, 2016 4:38 p.m.
Punderstorm says... #4
The thing is, they clearly knew this was a terrible idea because they only made 3 pairs. That tells me that they knew it'd be terrible in limited and entirely unplayable outside of standard (maybe not even in that). It goes against one of the lessons MaRo recently said he'd learned in his years of designing: "Don't do something just because you CAN do it."
June 27, 2016 5:04 p.m.
genericaura says... #5
I think the Meld cards are actually pretty competitively priced (2 for a 2/1 is mediocre, but red and black have crap bears anyway). Plus, I just wanna have a giant card on the battlefield that isn't my commander. It's gonna feel so good to tap Brisela at someone.
June 27, 2016 5:14 p.m.
genericaura - agreed. Some of these might even see constructed play without their other half. There are sure to be MUCH worse cards in the set than these Meld cards.
Also, to folks making the Yu-Gi-Oh references - it's not as though they invented the idea of combining multiple creatures into a more powerful one...
June 27, 2016 5:24 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #7
Since there aren't any color indicators on the Meld cards and they have the same look at "real" Eldrazi (Hand of Emrakul, Bane of Bala Ged), I think it's safe to assume they're colorless.
Meld is only a true knock-off of Fusion Monsters when they print a card called Polymerization. Otherwise all card games have close mechanics and overlaps. It's really not a big deal.
Meld as a mechanic is not a terrible idea. It's an interesting, yet complex one. It's complexity and the need to jump through hoops to make Meld work is likely what's keeping the pairs down.
Meld looks to me like it'll be absurdly powerful in Limited if you can pull it off. But the rare Meld cards are powerful bombs in their own right and at least one of the commons is playable. Meld isn't going to happen often, but when it does you will almost always be in a great situation. It requires you to jump through hoops, but the payoff is always very strong.
June 27, 2016 5:27 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #8
I'm looking forward to seeing someone, who is unaware of these meld cards, yell "MISPRINT" when they open one.
June 27, 2016 5:32 p.m.
genericaura says... #9
For all of those saying Magic is ripping off Yu-gi-oh:
Meld is a fixed version of Link, an unpublished mechanic. It was first thought of in 1996, when Mark Rosewater designed B.F.M. Ken Nagle and Mark then tried to get it into everything from Shadowmoor to New Phyrexia. Yu-gi-oh was released in 1998. So, neither is ripping off the other.
June 27, 2016 5:45 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #10
I think the whole Yu-gi-oh thing is just people finding an excuse to complain about something to be honest.
June 27, 2016 6:33 p.m.
McSleuthburger says... #12
I am going to make a deck around Brisela if it kills me, though I feel Gisela isint too bad by herself let alone paired up with Bruna
June 27, 2016 6:58 p.m.
-Orvos-: Magic was created in 1993. Pokemon came ~5-6 years later.
June 27, 2016 7:10 p.m.
averagenovice74 says... #15
Yeah the meld mechanic is really clunky. Not even from a constructed or limited standpoint but in general. Too much set up and predisposition for magic playing setting. It's just really odd design for magic.
From a purely playing perspective it just weird like even with the hanweir combo, Just let the trigger resolve and have a instant speed kill spell before combat step, effectively killing a creature and a land. It's just too much deterrence to play and set up and have slot for each in a 40 card or 60 card deck. The angels are ok because all of the decent kill spells in standard are cmc 3 or lower Declaration in Stone, Ruinous Path, Anguished Unmaking but still
I would hope they have a hexproof or flash meld creature(s) somewhere in this mix because looking at it from a player perspective, it's just too slow, clunky and too telegraphed to easily stop unless the opposition is doing the same thing as well.
Although I do like the other mechanics like escalate( kicker really) and emerge. So the set isn't completely out of whack.....
June 27, 2016 7:28 p.m.
Yeah there's no way Magic the Gathering ripped off Pokemon. Reason why is because Magic the Gathering ripped of Force of Will TCG. I mean one of MTG's most iconic cards is named after the Force of Will TCG. You can't possibly be anymore obvious about it Wizards of the Coast.
Shame on you WotC, shame on you.
June 27, 2016 7:53 p.m.
Linkdude74 says... #18
I like that both Gisela and Bruna are Horrors. Thing in the Ice Flip Control may be a thing that could play these maybe?
June 27, 2016 8:02 p.m.
kengiczar I give that a 5/10 on the troll scale. Too much obvious troll.
June 27, 2016 8:03 p.m.
Linkdude74 That could work if they decide to print a useful counterspell in this set. Otherwise, Orzhov is just the better option.
June 27, 2016 8:04 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #21
How will meld work with commander? If I can turn my genral Gisela into Brisela, is it still my general, does it do commander damage?
June 27, 2016 8:05 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #22
Brisela is an entirely different card so I think it would stop being your commander at that point.
June 27, 2016 8:18 p.m. Edited.
It still includes one-half of your commander, even flipped.. so.. it totally counts for commander damage.
June 27, 2016 8:41 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #24
And if you meld your commander, can you still recast it while Brisela is out?
June 27, 2016 8:47 p.m.
Unsubstantiate 
Instant (uncommon)
Return target spell or creature to its owner's hand.
June 27, 2016 8:51 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #26
Pretend "commanderness" puts a glow around the card that's your commander. No matter what, that glow is always around your commander.
When you meld, you turn the 2 cards upside down, and lay them next to each other to make 1 "oversized" card. That glow is still there, part of the new "oversized" card, because your commander is still there.
And melding doesn't make either card go back to the command zone, they both stay on the battlefield (after being temporarily exiled of course)
June 27, 2016 8:51 p.m.
Linkdude74 says... #27
Brisela is a part of whichever angel you're using as a commander. Just like the flip walkers are still your commander when they flip to the planeswalker side
June 27, 2016 8:54 p.m.
Wow, that pseudo-Remand looks pretty sweet. I'm sure that drawing a card is better than having to option to bounce a creature, but Unsubstantiate also gets around spells that can't be countered, so that's a plus. Whatever the case, this is awesome for Standard.
June 27, 2016 8:55 p.m.
Linkdude74 says... #29
Would the spell still resolve if it's bounced to it's owner's hand?
June 27, 2016 8:59 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #30
No, it won't. It'll be removed from the stack before it resolves. From Venser, Shaper Savant's Gatherer: If a spell is returned to its owner's hand, it's removed from the stack and thus will not resolve. The spell isn't countered; it just no longer exists.
My Standard deck just got a new toy!
June 27, 2016 9:09 p.m.
Linkdude74 says... #31
Oh jeez. All the Demonic Pact decks. And I feel like tbe demonic pact shell could be used with Startled Awake Flip too.
June 27, 2016 9:13 p.m.
I feel like they could have made meld so much less clunky and gimmicky if the card that triggered the meld was just a regular DFC and the other just had a normal backing...
June 27, 2016 9:24 p.m.
jchudz: One half of me agrees with you and the other half thinks it's so sweet to have a card that's twice as big as a normal card haha.
June 27, 2016 9:44 p.m.
Gnarlwood Dryad and the unmelded Hanweir are my favorites so far. Nimble Mongoose was real, so I want to see what the Dryad can do to Standard. And cheap haste enablers that can provide "colorless fixing" can't hurt in a Standard that still includes cards from Oath.
June 27, 2016 10 p.m.
Meld also gets really clunky in draft since you need yo pull 2 specific DFCs to get meld to trigger, if only one per pair was a DFC there would be way more opportunities for meld shenanigans.
June 27, 2016 10:15 p.m.
FatherLiir says... #36
You're all talking about your sweet three drop red and your Dryads and your Eldritch monstrosities, but how about that super not at all exciting black sorcery with a slight upside on returning a Zombie to your hand?
I mean maybe if it was instant speed but I'm really underwhelmed by it.
June 27, 2016 10:30 p.m.
Raptor199X says... #38
If you bounce a spell, do cast triggers still resolve? (Like prowess or Ulamog's cast trigger)
June 27, 2016 10:43 p.m.
Player3.14 says... #39
Yes, they do. Once an ability is put on the stack, including cast triggers, the ability is independent of the source. Similarly, if you activate an ability, let's say, of Desolate Lighthouse and it's Ghost Quartered in response, you'll still get to draw a card and discard a card. In each case, the ability source changed zones, but the ability is unaffected.
June 27, 2016 10:57 p.m.
Linkdude74 says... #40
I think Unsubstantiate will be in sideboards in modern where better Emrakul is a thing, maybe even main deck
June 27, 2016 11:08 p.m.
Linkdude74 New Emrakul will not change how Unsubstantiate is played because it's a cast ability. Just like Ulamog. They will get your turn regardless. I still think it's worth playing however. It "counters" Abrupt Decay and that's good enough for me.
June 27, 2016 11:11 p.m.
Linkdude74 says... #42
It doesn't stop the extra turn but it stops a 15/15 from coming out. Didn't think about abrupt decay though. That's excellent.
June 27, 2016 11:15 p.m.
Linkdude74 That's very true lol
I'm personally more excited for it's potential in modern AND legacy.
Cast Force of Will, exiling a card. Cast Unsubstantiate. 2 for 1.
Also, yeah the uncounterables are going to be the biggest things.
June 27, 2016 11:18 p.m.
Raptor199X says... #44
Thanks Player3.14Unsubstantiate is definitely going to replace Just the wind in my Fevered Visions deck
June 27, 2016 11:19 p.m.
Regarding Unsubstantiate delaying original Emrakul... It doesn't really work. If it's on the stack, they probably hardcast it. If that's true, bouncing it will just let them try again in their extra turn. Even bouncing new Emrakul has too much of a downside. Venser can see play because he "remands" an Emrakul cheated into play.
In any case, I need it to do something else before I consider playing it.
June 28, 2016 12:36 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #46
genericaura, I really dislike it when Mark Rosewater keeps attempting to make an idea of his a reality, as has happened several times, now; if people oppose an idea of his, and do so repeatedly, he should realize that there is a reason for that, and abandon that idea.
June 28, 2016 12:44 a.m.
Deckologist says... #47
DarkLaw how does venser remand a creature cheated into play? It reads almost word for word the same as unsubstabtiate. The only difference is one says "permanent" the other says "creature". If you're talking about creature bounce then they are essentially the same card.
June 28, 2016 12:52 a.m.
Deckologist Would you agree with me that Emrakul has protection from colored spells? Would you agree with me if I told you that Venser's ETB ability is not from a colored spell? It's only effective on an Emrakul cheated into play though. "Remand's" cantrip is just replaced with a 2/2.
June 28, 2016 1:09 a.m.
Deckologist says... #49
Of course. I have a bad habit of forgetting she says colored spells not colors. My bad.
Also side note...Brisela damage counts as commander damage if one of its pieces is your commander...wtf?!
June 28, 2016 1:15 a.m.
The_Redpill says... #50
First card printed with 'Reflection' subtype, which I found mildly interesting
Player3.14 says... #1
Rayenous: The problem with that is the same one with Goryo's Vengeance in modern - Bruna's reanimation trigger occurs on casting Bruna, not her entering the battlefield. It's the same reason that you don't get Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn's ability when you cheat it out with Through the Breach.
The combo is pretty breakable-proof; it's really meant for casual and possibly commander. My concern is that Gisela, already a mythic, as a mini - Baneslayer Angel will be played in standard, driving her price up and making us combo players disapointed. However, considering that her cmc is 4, a relatively high number, and the power of removal and standard, she may not be played because she lacks an ETB ability. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Archangel Avacyn Flip, the closest comparisons, each affect the board even if they're killed imediately, and Gideon can't be hit by a regular removal spell.
Hopefully Gisela's price will remain low enough for casual fun, but only the Pro Tour will tell.
June 27, 2016 4:11 p.m.