Flame-Wreathed Pheonix
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Jan. 14, 2014, 9:27 p.m. by abenz419
So what does everyone think about this new toy in red. Is it going to be too easy to play around it with kill spells and it's tribute or is this thing gonna wreck faces. I haven't decided yet what I think about it. I mean, at first, I was like this thing is awesome, but then I started thinking that with it's tribute, if you already have an answer to it then you just pay the tribute so it doesn't return to hand when you kill it. Or if you think you can drawn an answer in the next turn or two then you can always pay the tribute to prevent the haste attack. Similarly if you have a 4/4 flyer or bigger then you can not pay the tribute because you can block and let them recast it till you get an answer for it. Then again those plans can easily backfire and this thing could be a real huge threat, so I'm kinda on the fence about it. What about everyone else??
Enlightened_Jedi says... #2
I dont think it deserves to be a mythic, but its decent.
February 10, 2014 10:50 a.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #3
The point I'm making by bringing up Detention Sphere and Chained to the Rocks is not that you /should/ go for the haste option when you've got a D-Sphere or Chained, is that even the mode that's supposed to make even it to be hard to deal with isn't that hard to deal with.
UW control and Mono-Black Devotion can easily kill this thing's 5/5 form, R/G monsters and Mono-Blue Devotion can outrace its 3/3 form with things like Arbor Colossus
, Polukranos, World Eater
and Master of Waves
. And that's the whole problem; this card would be a lot less iffy if we just got a 5/5 flier or a 3/3 flier, hasted recursion guy, but your opponent ALWAYS gets the mode they can best deal with. I predict this kind of uncertainty when using this card will keep it off a lot of tournament tables..
Also I don't really like the phoenix because it doesn't have any kind of utility like Polokranos or Purphoros or even Fanatic of Mogis
, the lattermost two of which I'm actively running in my mono-red deck's four cmc slot over tracking down two or three copies of this bird.
February 11, 2014 11:15 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #4
Fanatic of Mogis comes with the same uncertainty, heavily dependent on board state, removal in hand can drastically reduce it's effectiveness. Basically all the things that make the phoenix bad, applies to everything else as well.
February 16, 2014 10:48 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #5
Except that if they don't have instant speed removal Fanatic of Mogis gets you immediate value of 1 to 7 damage, taking out a notable creature OR a notable chunk of your opponent's life, assuming you drop it on turn four. Also, as an uncommon, I can pretty easily acquire a playset of Fanatics for cheap, whereas Phoenix is much harder to acquire and I don't think he's worth getting a playset of anyway. It's a useful ability that I get incidentally from playing red permanents, which is what I would be doing anyway.
THAT is problem with Phoenix. It is JUST an flying Imperiosaur most of the time. Deadbridge Goliath was a 5/5 for 4 with an additional ability! Barely saw any play until it was rendered outmoded by Polukranos, World Eater who had UTILITY. Look at Flame-Wreathed's fellow mythics, all the ones that are even close to seeing play do something other than just be oversized french vanillas. They have some kind of powerful enter-the-battlefield or on-attack/combat damage trigger like Angel of Serenity , Master Biomancer , or Aurelia, the Warleader and the tournament playable ones almost all have some kind of protection AND utility: Blood Baron of Vizkopa is protected from two different colors of removal and can help you recover life, Stormbreath Dragon has haste and protection from a lot of UW and Esper removal options in additon to the ability to punish strategies with lots of card draw with its monstrous ability. Thassa, God of the Sea isn't even a creature all the time but she's very hard to kill with her indestructibility AND provides two very strong abilities to Mono-Blue Devotion.
Yeah I guess I'll play it if I happen to open one but I'm probably gonna drop the stupid thing the moment a better four drop becomes available.
February 17, 2014 6:59 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #6
I think your statement about being JUST a flyer, is vastly underestimating the usefulness of a creature that the majority of other creatures can't block.
"Yeah I guess I'll play it if I happen to open one but I'm probably gonna drop the stupid thing the moment a better four drop becomes available."
Well of course, bring back Ravager of the Fells Flip I'm game, come on wizards give us something nutz. But at the moment, this is a strong contender for the 4 drop spot in some decks, particularly G/R Monsters, Mono Red and Jund.
Schuesseled says... #1
@BlastercoolWeird
Yes you are correct, you could lightning strike it in response to it's ability triggering. Apologies.
There are mythics that don't have 'indestructibility', 'hexproof', or 'protection'. So I don't know why you continue to insinuate that there aren't.
Just because you hope you top deck a removal spell, doesn't mean you will.
There aren't that many flyer and reachers to worry about in the current meta. for the most part you'll just be dealing with Desecration Demon in the air, and you can tap him down and ignore him. (and deal 5 damage because if your opponent has a demon he'll let you come in as a 5/5.) Actually I would very much like you to give an example of the x/4 flyer/reacher that you expect will be blocking this forever as a 3/3, because I can't think of one that's played in constructed.
Arbor Colossus is the only card, you'll likely run into that you can't get past. Which is unfortunate, but that's what sideboards are for.
If you want to let me attack you with a 3/3 with haste when you have sorcery speed removal in hand. Please, please let me make you feel foolish. The correct play would be to let it enter as a 5/5 without haste and remove it whilst taking no damage.
"it's a card that isn't very hard to beat as far as big red bombs go."
So you answer this, and turn 5 i slap you with my Stormbreath Dragon , or you wait (rather than removing at sorcery speed) which is more sensible and I attack with both.
February 10, 2014 6:36 a.m.