GIDEON SPOILED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 16, 2015, 9:40 p.m. by CheeseBro
GIDEON WAS SPOILED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GIDEON!!!
Thoughts? Personally, i think he is AMAZING!!!!!!!!
Rasta_Viking29 says... #4
Important cards get their own threads for more targeted discussion. At least that's how we've been doing it.
This card is solid. It's a must answer one drop that should provide awesome tempo. None of the pw abilities do all that much or are game breaking. A 2/1 for 1 that can become a 4/4 indestructible by progressing your game plan, dam.
June 16, 2015 9:58 p.m.
Strictly better than Savannah Lions. He's definitely great in Tiny Leaders. I might use him in place of Isamaru, Hound of Konda now for Tiny Leaders and EDH.
June 16, 2015 10:04 p.m.
his +2 is kind of like Gideon Jura's ability. Indestructible and untap is great! Untap a creature that attacked and you have an indestructible blocker! getting a 4/4 that cant be killed is just down right broken. 2/1 for 1 that gets indestructible? sign me up!
W/R aggro might be a thing!
T1: Battlefield Forge, Gideon
T2: Mountain, 2 Monastery Swiftspears, attack with all 3, flip gideon. Turn 2 planeswalker!
June 16, 2015 10:15 p.m.
will he see modern Play? What do you guys think? I think he might see some in white weenie and soldier decks. In edh and tiny leaders he will be played a ton!
June 16, 2015 10:17 p.m.
Question: Can you have a transformed and untransformed Gideon on the field at the same time?
June 16, 2015 10:24 p.m.
I do like how Ixidron affects neither the untransformed nor transformed side while his 
ability is activated.
June 16, 2015 10:29 p.m.
i dont know, must have come up alot with Venser, Shaper Savant to Venser, the Sojourner and Karn, Silver Golem to Karn Liberated. I dont know though, since they are the same card. Im not sure though. You should maybe look it up or ask someone who knows.
maybe epoch
June 16, 2015 10:29 p.m.
NoPantsParade says... #12
I know you can have Venser, Shaper Savant and PW Venser out, etc. at the same time.
Not sure about these new transform planeswalkers though.
June 16, 2015 10:36 p.m. Edited.
You could have Kytheon and Gideon in play at the same time. That is part of the weirdness with double-faced legendary creatures.
Also, I don't think Gideon is Modern playable. Only existing deck I could see him in is Death & taxes, but even then it's not a perfect fit. Mainly b/c White-Weenie isn't a real deck in Modern.
June 16, 2015 10:36 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #14
I feel like this deserves its own thread, as all newly updated clusters of cards do. I refuse to use the single spoiler thread because digging through it is too big a waste of time to get any productive discussion out of it, at least in my opinion. Like, if you miss a day, you're dunzos.
I personally love the new gideon. He's great. A 4/4 for 1 that flips when you do what you want to be doing anyway? Amazing. The +2 isn't as powerful as Jura, but I think just as good for standard and maybe even modern. I will be jamming 4 gideon in all of my decks.
June 16, 2015 10:50 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #15
Kytheon + Ojutai's Command should be pretty sweet.
June 16, 2015 11:14 p.m.
He's okay. Not that easy to flip, dies to anything, and his abilities are lackluster. I still think his only merit comes in that he's a very solid turn 1 play. I'm sure he'll shine in Standard but he has no place in Modern, like the rest of the flip-walkers in this set. Oh well.
June 17, 2015 12:29 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #17
vishnarg, He's got built in protections. That's something
June 17, 2015 12:46 a.m.
I suppose, but that's a lot of mana to sink into him. You would need to cast him, wait a turn to get your attack, play two more creatures to attack with, and then if your opponent has a blocker wait another turn to use the indestructible. I think he's actually better in the late game when he can protect himself more easily and you'd already have a board ready to attack with him for. Really though, he's not a one mana planeswalker if your opponent can play anything to block with as you'll need to pay the indestructible cost to make him flip many times.
June 17, 2015 1 a.m.
beakedbard says... #19
Somehow i knew he was going to be a 1 drop i was expecting his transformation to be something like at the beginning of your upkeep (or end step) if you have 4-5 or more creatures in play transform also i was expecting him to start as a 1/1. Solid card and probably the best of the transforming planeswalkers i believe. He can protect everything you, your creatures and himself can also become a 4/4 indestructible and starts off fairly decently and is easy enough to transform there's nothing not to like really. He's exactly the planeswalker i've wanted whenever i've made a WW shell over the years and there's tons of other decent stuff to make hat work now. Shame Brave the Elements disappeared from standard a while back now.
June 17, 2015 1:39 a.m.
SimicPower says... #20
Wait, he has indestructible and prevents all damage dealt to him? What?
I guess he stops lifelink?
June 17, 2015 1:57 a.m.
beakedbard says... #21
Akroan Crusader, Dragon Hunter, Favored Hoplite, Firedrinker Satyr, Frenzied Goblin, Hopeful Eidolon, Kolaghan Stormsinger, Lightning Berserker, Mardu Woe-Reaper, Monastery Swiftspear, Soldier of the Pantheon, Zurgo Bellstriker.
All the somewhat decent 1 drops in R/W standard til the set after Origins. Decent 1 drop backup spells as well.Gods Willing, Hammerhand, Chained to the Rocks, Titan's Strength, Wild Slash.
Also with Raise the Alarm and Dragon Fodder and all the other efficient token producing spells seems like this could be something.
June 17, 2015 2:16 a.m.
SimicPower, the reasoning for that combination of abilities is that making a permanent indestructible does not inherently prevent damage dealt to that permanent. For example, if I Shock a Tajic, Blade of the Legion, it will have 2 damage marked on it, but won't die because of indestructible.
Planeswalkers, however, will always have loyalty counters removed equal to the damage they receive. This will occur even if the planeswalker is indestructible. For example, if I try to Boros Charm making my permanents gain indestructible, a Polukranos, World Eater can still kill my 5 loyalty Domri Rade. Hero's Downfall still can't kill Domri, but because indestructible permanents still receive damage, and planeswalkers lose loyalty when they receive damage, Domri will die in the situation I provided.
This is why every Gideon Jura variant has had the damage prevention clause; this allows him to get in combat and brawl without losing loyalty counters in the process. Additionally, the two Gideons after Gideon Jura also added indestructible when they became creatures because nothing felt worse than turning Gideon Jura into a 6/6 and then having him eat a Doom Blade. :(
June 17, 2015 5:51 a.m.
Also, as a renowned Boros mage, I'm extremely excited about Kytheon. There's a lot of potential in the cards that beakedbard mentioned that work well with him.
June 17, 2015 5:53 a.m.
Additionally, vishnarg is correct in that the new Gideon is strictly Standard playable. There are too many conditions and and too many superior plays in older formats, even Modern, to ever justify playing him there. Seriously, even Soul's Attendant is a million times better to play as a 1-drop in Modern.
June 17, 2015 5:58 a.m.
I thought Gideon was supposed to be in Battle for Zendikar? Are we going to get two?
They did that with Ajani too right; two different ajani's legal in standard at the same time? Seems odd. I guess if it works with the storyline then who cares
When I saw Kytheon I was like "hey it's a new planeswalker! Oh wait it's gideon"
June 17, 2015 7:35 a.m.
wait, so i know that you cant transform you creatures/planeswalkers with Moonmist because they would enter with no counters, But could you Moonmist an opponents flipwalker so it transforms without counters and dies?
June 17, 2015 10 a.m.
SimicPower says... #27
Jimhawk: Right. I forgot that whole "that's still a planeswalker" thing. The Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker template has been messing with my mind.
June 17, 2015 12:04 p.m.
Tingettley says... #29
CheeseBro- You can moonmist your walker. No matter what, he has starting 3 loyalty. unless there is a ruling that i missed..
June 17, 2015 6:57 p.m.
Tingettley - Planeswalkers get their Loyalty as an enters the battlefield ability. So if you Moonmist Kytheon, he'll immediately transform into Gideon but have 0 loyalty counters. So he'll die immediately.
June 17, 2015 7:07 p.m.
JWiley129 so could you moonmist an opponents walker to kill it?
June 17, 2015 7:08 p.m.
CheeseBro - Yes, but I'd rather use a real removal spell: Doom Blade, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Strike, Ultimate Price, etc.
JWiley129 says... #2
We have a spoiler thread, and we've been talking about it there. Don't make unnecessary threads.
June 16, 2015 9:41 p.m.