Guilds of Ravnica: Spoilers and Speculation
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Aug. 27, 2018, 12:04 p.m. by landofMordor
It's spoiler season!
There have been a few recent threads talking about new cards we might see in the new Guilds of Ravnica, but there's no central location yet.
So, enjoy: please discuss official spoilers as they become available, and until then, throw your hat in the ring for characters/cards/mechanics you think we'll see!
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #2
AgentGreen - Because Isperia was assassinated by Vraska leaving no one in charge. It would be all to easy for Bolas to place an agent to lead there (i.e. Tezzeret on Kaladesh). It's pure speculation for sure, but the idea is very much something Bolas would do.
Also, I rescind my Boros comment. They are too closely aligned with Gideon, and the Ravnicans will need an army to battle the Eternalized.
I could see Orzhov being a situation where the Obzedat want to align with Bolas, but Teysa descents and attempts a coup. Enter our inter-planar ghostbuster who deals with the Obzedat and then Orzhov sides with the Jacetice League under Teysa's leadership.
September 11, 2018 10:15 a.m.
AgentGreen says... #4
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor I just read that part.
So Vraska offs the head of the Azorius; leaving the guild without a leader. I can't see Tezzeret being guildleader; due to him being .
September 11, 2018 11:27 a.m.
Well doesn't Tezzeret have an Azorius planeswalker working with him? Dovin Baan could be the type whod sneak in and act as a guildhead for Bolas.
September 11, 2018 11:45 a.m.
AgentGreen says... #6
dbpunk I don't think Dovin would want to work with Tezz.
But him acting as an unwilling agent of Bolas and installing himself as guild leader of the Azorius would make sense; as Baan's knack is to find faults in anything and correct/exploit them
September 11, 2018 11:54 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #7
So Team Bolas looks like;
From guilds of Ravnica; Izzet and Golgari.
From Ravnica Allegiance we’re assuming Azorius (a puppet replaces Isperia,) Rakdos, because it’s easy to “promise” more power to a demon and Simic because...power-hungry scientists? More fodder for experiments? They blend nicely with Golgari?
Gruul may be too wild to join Bolas, although it may be whispering just the right nothings into the right characters ears that incites them...
Kaya showing up doesn’t mean she joins the Orzhov, but I could see the Church of Orzhova being either pro-Ravnica or easily manipulated. The ghost council will probably survive whatever Bolas can do, unless Kaya has something to say about that...
September 11, 2018 12:03 p.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #8
everyone splashes for Bolas nowadays... this seems like a fun play. No evasion hurts a bit but being able to get a 6/4 on turn three means they will likely have to waste a turn to kill it with a spell.
It gets a little worse later in the game when the 2 mana won't matter as much and you still have to get it through, but still seems solid in Mono green I think.
September 11, 2018 12:38 p.m.
Goreclaw, Terror of Qal Sisma helps the dude with a bit of evasion.
How about the new elf? I can't link easily in my phone but
.
Creature - Elf Druid
Whenever you cast a creature spell, draw a card.
2/3
September 11, 2018 2:50 p.m.
The new elf is great tbh. Like I definitely want that for edh purposes because it's a way cheaper Primordial Sage with a pretty relevant creature type.
September 11, 2018 3:20 p.m.
Also, from a flavor standpoint, I like how the lands are guilds with two separate art one being the guilds main entrance, and the other being the back entrance where you buy secrets (or varying illegal items).
September 11, 2018 4:43 p.m.
landofMordor says... #13
dbpunk, such a cool observation on the gates!
Anybody have confirmation that Vraska killed Isperia, specifically? We know she was tortured by sphinxes during her time in the clink, so it could be any Sphinx, and the art of Assassin’s Trophy kinda looks like that statue has been around long enough for mushrooms to grow up around it. Granted, since it’s a Story Spotlight, that is less likely, but I’m interested to read any proof that Vraska’s victim is Isperia.
September 11, 2018 5:55 p.m.
Well the flavor text of Assassin's Trophy reads as follows:
"A power vacuum for the Azorius. A keepsake for Vraska."
Which seems to point the finger at Vraska, or at least someone who works for Vraska who also happens to be a gorgon. But, if you look at the card Guild Summit, you'd see that there might be a reason as to why if Bolas' aim is to use chaos in Ravnica to gain control and/or use his plot.
September 11, 2018 6:33 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #15
Judging from recent previews, it seems that WotC is again printing black cards that deal damage, rather than causing life loss, as they did in Dominaria, which really displeases me, as I had hoped that that would be a one-time thing. Mark Rosewater is continually emphasizing the importance of the color pie, but this trend shows a lack of attention to that; it may not be an outright break of the color pie, but it is a very severe bend.
How is nullhide ferox at all balanced? It should be either a 4/4 for 4 mana or a 6/6 for 6 mana, in my mind; even with its restrictive ability, I believe that a 6/6 for 4 mana is too powerful.
On a more positive note, ionize is very awesome, and I shall definitely purchase four copies of it for my red/blue deck, and I also now have high hopes for the Azorius and Simic guilds having great counterspells in the next set. Ionize may not be quite as powerful as Undermine, but it has a more lenient and flexible casting cost, which is very nice.
September 11, 2018 10:48 p.m.
DragonKing90 says... #16
DemonDragonJ: no offense man, but i don't think you've been paying attention very well when people have told you that there is no rule stating a creatures power/toughness shouldn't be higher than its mana cards. a p/t higher than its mana cost does not mean a creature is imbalanced. you've posted about this concern of yours multiple times now, and i distinctly remember another user telling you about Savannah Lions that has literally been around since the games inception. if you think a certain creature is "nowhere near balanced", then feel free to buy it and test it out in standard. let me know how that goes for you. even Emrakul, the Aeons Torn can't "guarantee" a win.
September 11, 2018 11:06 p.m.
landofMordor says... #17
Point taken, dbpunk, I'm convinced! (: RIP Isperia.
DemonDragonJ, when DOM came out, MaRo actually said in his card-by-card design article that black was phasing out life loss in exchange for dealing damage to themselves. There have been relatively few damage-prevention-for-player effects printed ever since the New World Order, but the subtleties between life loss/damage to self were tough for new players, so this is a way to reduce the complexity of Magic without sacrificing mechanical integrity. Note that this only applies to damage to self; when it comes to drain effects, Black hasn't changed at all.
I get your concerns about power creep on the Ferox, but you gotta remember it does have downside (can't cast non-creature, which means that the decks that utilize it will be bad at defending it), and, like many folks have already said, creatures have gotten better since '95, for better or worse. I see a trend in your comments that you prefer things to stay the way they were when they were first printed (guild leaders at mythic, low P/T, very fixed color pie, etc), which I understand, because it leads to familiarity, but you gotta remember that MtG's constant change is a strength! It is what keeps us in this game for 10+ years. Sure, WotC might look back on this period of design and regret some pushed creatures, but if they hadn't been willing to change, we'd still be stuck in the paleolithic era of Channel+Fireball, or 0-mana counterspells, or playing 9 copies of Demonic Tutor...
September 12, 2018 7:38 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #18
Well this set's version of signets are spoiled, and they are mediocre at best.
However, we might have just gotten two of the best creatures spoiled so far and they are uncommon:
I also just realized that each of the new split cards has a picture of guildleader as the gold side and an underling on the hybrid mana side (or a displaced guildleader in Niv-Mizzet's case). So that means...Aurelia, Tajic, Trostani (or the Conclave?), and Lazav confirmed!
September 12, 2018 10:53 a.m.
Vraska is a boss. Literally and figuratively. They nailed the power level and flavor.
September 12, 2018 11:31 a.m.
I really like the way the card evokes the last Ravnica Vrask (Vraska the Unseen). Both her -3 and her ultimate are different enough to feel different but similar enough to feel... similar. Well said, I know.
September 12, 2018 11:54 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #23
Flavor wise I agree, she is really cool. Game play wise, I find it sad to see such a disappointing card for one of my favorite PW's. Sure she is great on curve, but she seems pretty niche.
+2: Great if you already have a board presence, but I don't think sacrificing lands when you are behind is where you want to be.
-3: Sorcery speed Abrupt Decay is good I guess if she comes out on curve. But this ability does nothing to help you late game.
-9: You can't judge PW's on their ultimate.
Overall she seems solid in the best case scenario, but fairly mediocre outside of that situation. That is not how you want your PW's to be. I could only see her seeing play if an aristocrats style deck emerges.
September 12, 2018 12:05 p.m.
Also her ult is actually dangerous for you, even if you don't judge her by her ult. Like it says "player", not opponent. That means if an opponents creature hits you, your dead. Any unblockable or evasive creature could kill anyone.
September 12, 2018 12:10 p.m.
While I agree that you can't evaluate planeswalkers based on their ultimates, it is worth noting her ultimate costs 9, and her starting loyalty is 4--even with Doubling Season, you can't ultimate her on the first turn she is dropped.
Decent card, and will probably be pretty scary to play against in limited limited, but I'm not overly enthused. Granted, I really don't like planeswalkers as a card type, and will be the first to admit my bias taints my opinion.
dbpunk - it says "Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player." There are still some risks--if your opponent uses Glarecaster or the like on your creature they can force you to lose the game. But those kinds of effects are not commonly used.
September 12, 2018 12:21 p.m.
The ult says "A creature you control deals combat damage to a player" it is pretty hard to both control a creature and attack yourself with it, so the ult is safe for you.
September 12, 2018 12:21 p.m.
Whoops misread the card. Well, in that case its a hell of a lot better.
September 12, 2018 12:29 p.m.
AgentGreen says... #28
Vraska has alot of things that a quality walker has
A big threat that if left uncheck will cost you the game.
I'm eagar to see what the remaining 3 walkers are going to be in this set
Since we're dealing with Boros.....Gideon anyone?
September 12, 2018 12:42 p.m.
AgentGreen they've already stated that the planeswalkers that are going to be made for this set and next set are going to be those loyal to Bolas. So that kinda leaves Boros Gideon out until the third set on Ravnica at least.
September 12, 2018 1:52 p.m.
I just got a theory regarding Kaya.
The Obzedat rule the Orzhov, but what if an agent of Bolas hired Kaya to take them out, creating a situation similar to Fiora in Conspiracy 2, then she realizes the truth and defects?
I think Kaya's (temporarily) under Bolas's employ. It'll be weird for Ajani to fetch her because her expertise doesn't line up with the nature of the target (i.e. Bolas).
September 12, 2018 3:05 p.m. Edited.
AgentGreen says... #31
Phaetion The big issue with that is to betray Bolas is to invite death.
September 12, 2018 3:14 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #32
Phaetion I was just thinking about that as well. It could go along the lines of:
Bolas knows Teysa wants to rule the Orzhov. So he hires Kaya (whether through an agent or by himself) on behalf of Teysa to deal with the Obzedat. Teysa now gets what she wants and all it will have cost her is her allegiance to Bolas. Kaya can then defect later on.
I was also thinking about how most people (including myself) are assuming Kaya would just align with the Jacetice League. However, we actually don't really know much about Kaya herself. We only had a couple stories related to her a few years ago, but that is it. She is still a bit of a mystery. She could just be a neutral and peace-out after the job is done or she could actually side with Bolas.
Regardless, I think that story line makes more sense then Teysa knowing how to hire a PW/ghost killer.
Plus you could then shift the alliances to:
Team Bolas: Izzet, Golgari, Gruul, Orzhov, Azorius
Team Jacetice League: Selesnya, Dimir, Rakdos, Simic, Boros
Those alliances would set up an equal color pie distribution.
Also, guildmages are back and the two spoiled so far look pretty decent.
September 12, 2018 4:02 p.m.
Has anyone mentioned Mausoleum Secrets yet? Tutor a black (anything) card with mana cost less than or equal to Undergrowth. It's my sleeper pick to make a Modern or Legacy showing.
On an unrelated note, I always have to respect Izzet card names and flavor text.
September 12, 2018 4:03 p.m.
Tbh Hypothesizzle sounds like the name of a Snoop Dogg song and I love it.
September 12, 2018 4:18 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: I think MaRo mentioned that each of the five will be headed by a planeswalker. So, we have this lineup:
Liliana, Ral, Vraska, Tezzeret, and Ramaz (?)
Ral and Vraska are confirmed. Isperia's dead, and Tezzy could very well bribe his way back into power again (that, or Bolas hires Dovin to head Azorius), and another to head Gruul (and, of his minions, Ramaz is the best choice so far).
Then there's Orzhov, the only other guild that is associated with Necromancy in some way. If anything, Lili will head the guild, and Teysa would be shoved aside, making her goal that much harder.
September 12, 2018 6:49 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #36
landofMordor, but "(cardname) deals X damage to you" occupies more space on a card than does "you lose X life," so, surely, WotC would want to preserve card space?
Also, the flavor difference is important, as well, as it is the difference between being stabbed in the abdomen with a sword versus bleeding from the wound afterward.
Then, there is the mechanical difference: damage can be altered by Story Circle or Furnace of Rath, while life loss cannot be; I also highly doubt that very many players could find that to be a difficult thing to understand, so this seems to be a change that is being made simply for the sake of making a change.
I was excited to put Assassin's Trophy in my decks to replace Putrefy, but its current pre-order price is $22, and I doubt that it will decrease by a significant amount, so I doubt that I shall be purchasing any copies of it at any point in the near future.
The new Vraska is nice, but I have two complaints about her final ability: first, it is too powerful for only 9 loyalty, as other planeswalkers have abilities that cost greater amounts of loyalty but are not as powerful; second, this is now the second time that Vraska has taken that ability from Phage the Untouchable, making it that much less unique; I really wish that WotC had kept that ability unique to Phage, because this is blatant evidence of both how ridiculously powerful planeswalkers are and how much WotC is emphasizing them.
September 12, 2018 6:57 p.m.
They're probably changing it slowly to black dealing damage because it's easier for players to understand that losing life and more preventable/interactive than life loss tricks.
September 12, 2018 7:30 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #38
dbpunk, but, again, it is a flavor fail and also severely bends the color pie (it may not outright break it, but it still is a severe bend).
September 12, 2018 10:14 p.m.
DemonDragonJ I think calling it a severe bend is overstating this situation pretty severely (sorry, I just had to! :) ). The outcome of "lose x life" and "take x damage" is that your life is reduced by x. The fact that the move is happening only on cards that are causing your own life to be reduced makes it even less severe, even from a flavor perspective. Consider: is someone performing a painful blood ritual to gain knowledge (clearly a black move) damaging their body? Probably.
The fact that they result in identical outcomes is the issue that can be confusing to newer players. Can it be explained? Yes. Once it's explained, is it fairly straightforward? Yes. Is it still a barrier for new players? Yes. If the choice to eliminate an entry barrier does not change gameplay and does not break some aspect of the game, then I am all for it. Yes, there are cards that prevent damage that someone can use to avoid the ill effects of the self-inflicted wounds black is so fond of, but those effects are not many (and are rarely played), and using an extra card and mana to avoid taking damage from Painful Truths is not going to make casting the card significantly better for you...
On another note, I had a similar disappointment with Assassin's Trophy. Maybe we'll get lucky and open one :)
September 12, 2018 11:24 p.m. Edited.
LittleBlueHero says... #40
I really like how simple yet terribly effective this card is
September 13, 2018 11:51 a.m.
AgentGreen says... #41
Holy crap this guy is scary.
In Esper....how would you folks like to dance with not one but two Lyras?
September 13, 2018 12:13 p.m.
Doom Whisperer seems insanely good. 3 and two black for a 6/6 flier is already above average, and there’s no downside. Instead, you can pay 2 life at instant speed with no other cost to mill yourself for 2, unless you want both of those cards on top of your library. This seems dumb in commander, a format in which Griselbrand is banned for being able to draw stupid amounts of cards for 1 life a pop (in multiples of 7), and where the right deck views drawing cards and milling cards as about the same thing. Definitely picking up at least two of these.
Previewed @ coolstuffinc.com
September 13, 2018 2:06 p.m.
AgentGreen says... #44
Boros got their guild leader up
2/5
Legendary Creature - Angel
Flying
Mentor
At the beginning of combat on your turn, you may target up to one creature you control. That creature gets +2/0, and gains Trample if it's red and vigilance if it's white.
Ok; she can make herself a 4/5 flying vigilant trampler and make smaller dudes bigger; but my problem with this is that outside of that; she's not a big deal outside of limited
September 13, 2018 2:09 p.m.
I really like the dimir spoilers, Lazav, doom whisperer, and even dream eater are all pretty sweet and I know I will be making use of at least one of these in doom whisperer for edh. Dimir, followed by izzet, and then golgari definitely have the best cards so far I believe.
September 13, 2018 2:31 p.m.
Regarding Aurelia:
"Next is the Boros Snoozefest, GRN Edition! We'll be right back after these messages."
Seriously though, she looks quite good, and goes well with her old self, but really now, Wizards. I'm sure Bore-os is capable of doing other tricks than play the "Smash, Smash" song 24/7.
September 13, 2018 3:12 p.m.
The EDH in me says Boros needs more global effects! If they are going to alter combat so much, make it global, make it fun. There are global types of effects that work in other formats as well as long as the card design is good.
September 13, 2018 3:26 p.m.
I'd love Sunforger on a legendary stick. That'd do me just fine.
September 13, 2018 4:48 p.m.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! This card is hilarious! Look at that beautiful, adorable creature being so cute and cuddly!
...then read the flavor text. I'm dying of laughter. XD
September 13, 2018 5:07 p.m.
Suns_Champion says... #50
As probably the biggest Boros nerd on the site, I am rather disappointing in New Aurelia. Just what Boros needed: more okay-ish combat effects.
She's good, don't get me wrong. Just boring. Uninspired if you ask me.
Here's hoping Tajic is kick-ass.
AgentGreen says... #1
Can someone explain why people think Azorius will go to Bolas? They prefer the status quo. Bolas coming in would upset that.
September 11, 2018 9:59 a.m.