I present, Dack Fayden!
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on April 21, 2014, 10:10 p.m. by JWiley129
He seems like a thief to me :)
blackmarker90 - Well that IS because he isn't printed in a Standard, let alone Modern, legal set.
April 21, 2014 10:15 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #4
To clarify for anyone who isn't aware, He won't see standard play because he's in a set that isn't in / won't be in standard. He's definitely standard playable, but unfortunately standard players don't have access to him.
I think that he's alright, personally. I would love to use him in the sideboard of my loam dredge deck just for the endless faithless lootings, but hey, whatreyagunnado?
April 21, 2014 10:16 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #5
Well, he'll probably never see Legacy play either. EDH, on the other hand...
OH GOD HIM AND Ink-Treader Nephilim !!!!!!
April 21, 2014 10:16 p.m.
ThatBlueMage - I don't think Dack is playable in THIS particular Standard. There aren't enough artifacts to warrant his place in any deck. That said, imagine if he was printed during Scars block... O.O
April 21, 2014 10:21 p.m.
I mean, you could just skip the middleman and Act of Treason Ink-Treader Nephilim then throw a Cloudshift .
April 21, 2014 10:47 p.m.
TheOne4221 says... #12
Spell Thievery is best thievery.
Dack can still be used in EDH and Archmage right? If so, I might build an Archmage deck for him.
April 21, 2014 10:51 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #13
He's legal in Legacy, Vintage, EDH/Archmage, and Kitchen Table Casual.
He's also legal in Conspiracy Draft (Duh)
April 21, 2014 11:43 p.m.
blackmarker90 says... #14
He will provide for some pretty bonkers Cube possibilities
April 21, 2014 11:57 p.m.
I think he can see some play in Legacy. His ability's are good enough and he costs 3 ie Liliana of the Veil
April 22, 2014 12:11 a.m.
The link to him came from a secret Twitter account linked from the end of a video on Conspiracy from the MTG YouTube page. This is as confirmed as we're going to get for a while.
April 22, 2014 3:09 a.m.
beakedbard says... #18
If I'm reading the wording correctly his final ability it works similarly to Battlefield Thaumaturge in the sense that if you cast Gridlock you when that emblem is out you can possibly gain control of all your opponents non-land permanents. Can someone correct me if i'm wrong but that's what it looks like to me.
Welp i really wish he were standard legal if only for the constant faithless looting as his +1 whilst only being a 3cmc.
April 22, 2014 4:55 a.m.
squarelles says... #19
I think the Ink-Treader Nephilim combo would work. On newer cards it says "you may cast the copies without paying their mana costs. I could be wrong...
April 22, 2014 7:21 a.m.
No.
Most cards are still worded the way Ink-Treader Nephilim is worded.
The ones that are not are general activated abilities which do not occur at the time of another spell being cast.
Elite Arcanist is an example of of an ability in which the copy is 'cast'. This is because you are not copying a spell on the stack; rather you are copying an Exiled card, and then casting the copy.
Generally, if you are copying a spell on the stack, you are not 'casting' the copy. Wild Ricochet for example.
April 22, 2014 7:35 a.m.
It's not often, but every once in a blue moon, R&D likes to throw Vintage players a bone. dack fayden is absolutely insane.
His +1 gives you a repeatable Thirst for Knowledge , helps get you out of being Brainstorm locked, and starts him off outside of Lightning Bolt range.
The -2 is just gorgeous...steal a Time Vault ? How about a turn two Blightsteel Colossus ? Or a Tangle Wire to throw back in MUD's face?
I don't even care about his ultimate. If this is indeed the final version, his first two abilities make him extremely playable and one of the most important cards for the format in years. The fact that he even has an ultimate is just icing on the cake. Control Slaver and 5-Color $t4ks might make a comeback.
Welcome home, dack fayden, welcome home...
April 22, 2014 7:46 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #22
I agree with sylvannos on this one. They decided to throw Vintage players a bone with this one.
April 22, 2014 8:01 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #23
"His +1 gives you a repeatable Thirst for Knowledge "
Umm... no it doesn't. It does however give you a repeatable Faithless Looting / Careful Study .
April 22, 2014 8:16 a.m.
@Schuesseled: In Vintage, it's a Thirst for Knowledge . The thing about Faithless Looting is that you're pitching three and drawing two. Since dack fayden is a planeswalker and you're stealing moxen, he's going to be a two-for-two at worst, just like how Thirst for Knowledge draws you three and pitches three (Thirst for Knowledge itself and two non-artifacts). The difference is subtle, but since Dack is a planeswalker and not a sorcery/instant, he's generating card advantage, not losing it.
Hence, his +1 is a Thirst for Knowledge in the types of decks that want him, not a Faithless Looting .
April 22, 2014 8:42 a.m.
I think what sylvannos is saying is that, while Faithless Looting has negative card advantage, Dack Fayden gives you no card advantage (like Thirst for Knowledge does). The magnitude is lower (Draw 3 for Thirst vs Draw 2 for Faithless/Dack), but the amount of card advantage you get is the same.
April 22, 2014 8:52 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #27
Seems fun and balanced. Conspiracy should be a blast, I'm going to draft a bunch this summer.
April 22, 2014 11:21 a.m.
Epochalyptik - I was wondering if you could weigh in on Dack's potential for Commander? I let my friend proxy him in a match where he ran Sedris, the Traitor King
, and he did work.
April 22, 2014 3:45 p.m.
I'm considering him for my own Sedris edh, and I can only assume he'll be very useful. I'm too busy running fatties for artifact removal, so his -2 will be extremely useful, and his +1 advantages are just extraordinary.
sylvannos, while your point about card advantage is solid, the thing about Thirst for Knowledge vs. Faithless Looting is that Thirst for Knowledge gains card advantage by the extra draw, which digs you deeper into your deck. Faithless Looting , like Dack Fayden, only digs two cards, which slower and makes much more difference as opposed to digging three. So while Thirst for Knowledge does cut even card advantage, it does it in an entirely different, slower way than Dack does. Please bear in mind that I'm not a vintage player, so I don't know how effective it is in that format, so take my input with a grain of salt.
April 22, 2014 4:32 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #30
@JWiley129: It has potential. Of course, you'd need to test it to be sure, but it seems good enough to include in most decks. Loot and filter your lands out of your hand (or feed reanimator if you're in Grixis colors), gain control of mana rocks or late-game artifacts, etc. The ult is reachable, too, because Dack comes out so early.
April 22, 2014 5:37 p.m.
@codebread: Understandable. I should probably just say that dack fayden, in a vacuum, has a Careful Study for his +1. However, in a deck with Goblin Welder and Yawgmoth's Will , he functions as a second, third, fourth, and fifth copy of the restricted Thirst for Knowledge . It's not a literal Thirst for Knowledge , but since it's on a planeswalker that can be used each turn, it's far more interesting.
The point on Thirst for Knowledge digging three deep at instant speed is what got it restricted in the first place. dack fayden is obviously slower and not as powerful in a format as reactionary as Vintage, but he's to Thirst for Knowledge as Jace, the Mind Sculptor is to Ancestral Recall . While Jace, the Mind Sculptor 's 0 ability is a Brainstorm , the fact you're doing it each turn in conjunction with fetch lands and tutors makes the card advantage more like Ancestral Recall since you're doing it each turn.
April 22, 2014 6:10 p.m.
Just goes to show how little I knew about the format. I didn't even know Thirst for Knowledge was restricted.
April 22, 2014 6:29 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #33
Dude, talking about vintage, what if you stole a MUD player's Staff of Nin ? Then used his ult! That'd be the ACTUAL NUT.
April 22, 2014 6:30 p.m.
PhageTheUnbeatable says... #34
This is absolutely ridiculous in Vintage, though he does not have as many applications in Legacy.
April 22, 2014 8:37 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #35
Your metaphors need work.
Drawing a card each turn from sticks is not the same as drawing a whole shit ton of cards all at once from one card, it's not even remotely similar. So stop calling JTMS an Ancestral Recall and Dack a Thirst for Knowledge . If you are going to compare what a card is similar to, go by what the card actually fucking says, its less confusing and the whole world will thank you.
I swear for your benefit.
April 23, 2014 6:08 a.m.
@Schuesseled: Or we could not look at things in a vacuum and not get confused when having a discussion for a card's potential uses, instead of acting like a twat.
April 23, 2014 6:55 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #37
@sylvannos Twatishness or not, you are making me confused by making crazy statements.
Godsend is the new Path to Exile because it exiles something...BUZZZ nope. Hello Sword of Kaldra is a far better card to use in such a statement, as it's also an artifact equipment that exiles things.
Dack's +1 has a Careful Study effect, i.e. it draws two then discards two, it doesn't draw three then discard two unless you discard an artifact, saying it's just like a new Thirst for Knowledge is mind-bogglingly stupid. My mind was boggled as yet has not been un-boggled.
April 23, 2014 8:08 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #38
Pretending it's in a deck with X and Y to excuse the fact that you used M to describe it's +1....after the fact! Is truly abhorrent.
April 23, 2014 8:10 a.m.
Talking about cards in the way they are actually used instead of entirely and only the literal text of the card in a vacuum is a good thing, not a bad thing.
I feel comfortable calling Kird Ape a 2/3 and not a 1/1 when I talk about it compared to other one-drop creatures.
April 23, 2014 10:55 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #40
It is a good thing....when people know what you are talking about, otherwise it's just jibberish.
Ahh but at least Kird Ape explains why you would on the card itself. Saying it's a 5/3 and can't be blocked by two or more creatures, and forgetting to mention you would play it in combination with Madcap Skills would be unreasonable.
April 23, 2014 1:37 p.m.
@Schuesseled: Here, let me help you with a Control Slaver list proposed by Stephen Menedian from around 2008:
1x Black Lotus 1x Mana Vault 1x Mox Pearl 1x Mox Sapphire 1x Mox Emerald 1x Mox Ruby 1x Mox Jet 1x Sol Ring 4x Volcanic Island 3x Underground Sea 1x Island 2x Polluted Delta 1x Tolarian Academy -----------------------------------------------------19 Mana Sources
1x Darksteel Colossus 4x Goblin Welder 2x Gorilla Shaman 1x Triskelion -----------------------------------------------------8 Creatures
2x Sensei's Divining Top 1x Mindslaver 1x Ancestral Recall 1x Brainstorm 4x Thirst for Knowledge 1x Gifts Ungiven 1x Fact or Fiction 1x Mystical Tutor 1x Vampiric Tutor 1x Rack and Ruin 1x Echoing Truth 4x Force of Will 4x Mana Drain 1x Tinker 1x Yawgmoth's Will 1x Time Walk 1x Merchant Scroll 1x Demonic Tutor -----------------------------------------------------28 Other Spells
So what are the changes we make to update this list for 2014? For one, we swap Darksteel Colossus for Blightsteel Colossus . Number two, we cut the Mana Drain s from four to two, cut a Sensei's Divining Top , and cut either Merchant Scroll , Rack and Ruin , or a Gorilla Shaman and replace them with the now unrestricted Gush . Now what's left?
That's right: Thirst for Knowledge has been restricted. Our three-drop draw all of the cards spell has gone from four copies to one. What can we now put in that slot that serves the same function for fueling Yawgmoth's Will and Goblin Welder ? Faithless Looting is really bad here...we could just add Bazaar of Baghdad if we really wanted to, but that opens up our mana base to Wasteland in the Null Rod and Mishra's Workshop match-ups.
So what helps us in those games and isn't something that doesn't lose us card advantage? dack fayden. His +1 is filtering our hand, just like if we Thirst for Knowledge and discard two cards. But he's also a permanent that doesn't get hit by Wasteland and actually helps us in the Null Rod and Mishra's Workshop matches because of his synergy with Goblin Welder .
It's okay to use cards to describe what their role is in a deck. Nemesis of Mortals is the G/B Dredge deck from Theros' Tarmogoyf . Blood Moon is Modern's Wasteland . Jace, Architect of Thought is Standard's Jace, the Mind Sculptor , despite both cards having completely different lines of text in everything but what type of planeswalker they are and mana cost.
I strongly state that dack fayden is the new replacement for Thirst for Knowledge in Vintage, all because of his +1. I'm sorry you can't follow along or comprehend what the adults around you are saying.
April 23, 2014 5:51 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #42
I understand you want to put him in Stephen Menedian's deck. (I don't know why you can't let him update his and design your own).
I still don't understand what the deck does, why I should care or what relevance that has to the conspiracy set and I'm fairly sure you are not helping in this regard.
Legacy/Vintage/Kitchen casual whatever this thing is you are showing me, I have no interest in.
April 23, 2014 7:03 p.m.
Dack Fayden is confirmed. Type "Paliano" (no quotes) into here, then scroll down.
April 23, 2014 8:21 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #45
I do as a matter of fact. But don't really feel like it after being called a twat.
Is that alright with you codebread, do I have your permission to continue to exist, because if I don't I will surely cease at once.
April 23, 2014 8:24 p.m.
.....aaaaaaaaaaand now we know Schuesseled really is a twat.
- Tells people to go by what "the fucking card says."
- Gets upset when someone offers a rebuttal with a list of reasons and evidence to support their argument.
- Sticks fingers in his ear "Nanananananananaa I don't care what format hurr durr."
- Doesn't know who Stephen Menedian is when a person is talking about a card for Vintage.
You're a joke and now I know I wasted time replying to you.
April 24, 2014 12:16 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #47
Gather round everyone and peer in at the magic elitist, careful don't stick your hands nears the bars as he might bite or throw his poop at you.
For your information you haven't hurt my feelings and I couldn't give the smallest shit about the identities of mtg celebrities.
Not everyone on here has a thesaurus like knowledge of competitive events in every format and if you can't deal with that, say for example, going all mental on your keyboard when someone disagrees with your description of a card because they don't understand what the fuck you are talking about. Then perhaps i'm not the one with delicate sensibilities.
April 24, 2014 6:15 a.m.
@Schuesseled: I gave my reasons for why I disagreed with your initial reply to me, with which you followed up with "no," gave zero explanation, then threw a hissy fit and started dropping f-bombs.
Because not everyone follows competitive events, ESPECIALLY competitive Vintage, is why I took the time to outline lines of play and show cards he interacts with. Again, you swoop in and are just like "lol no," with no explanation or reasoning behind your view, other than "what you're saying is too complicated."
This sums it up nicely:
"I still don't understand what the deck does, why I should care or what relevance that has to the conspiracy set and I'm fairly sure you are not helping in this regard.
Legacy/Vintage/Kitchen casual whatever this thing is you are showing me, I have no interest in."
The rest of us in this thread were discussing dack fayden's potential use and what deck he's best positioned in. Since you don't really care about what the rest of us think and aren't interested in having a discussion, maybe you should go back to goldfishing with the playtester.
April 24, 2014 6:32 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #49
I'm going to have the decency to ignore your jibes and concentrate on the matter at hand, which is that you tried to lie and tell everyone that his +1 said "draw three cards then discard two cards unless you discard an artifact"....
which of course it does not so stop all the posturing and accept this fact.
I of course corrected this grievous error, to which I was assaulted with wild claims that "in vintage it is" which as you might suspect to a man who knows nothing of vintage isn't particularly convincing. If you had instead told me "ahh my good man, it acts like a thirst for knowledge if you have the ability cast spells in your graveyard as though they were in your hand as it gives you pseudo card advantage." this whole debacle could have been avoided.
I would of course been inclined to point out that combo potential doesn't alter what a card says and to say his +1 does anything other than what it says on the tin (so to speak) just causes confusion.
And for the record as a grown man and considering it does not violate the rules of the forum, I can swear whenever I want. Alright?
April 24, 2014 8:42 a.m.
Schuesseled, Chill. Comparing dack to Thirst for Knowledge is completely legitimate. He has a comparable role in the deck, and comparable net card advantage. You may disagree with these facts, but that is no excuse to rage.
blackmarker90 says... #2
I like this guy, sadly he will never see standard play
April 21, 2014 10:14 p.m.