Iconic Masters Announced
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on April 20, 2017, 12:16 p.m. by _Delta_
Number of Cards: 249
Release Date: November 17, 2017
MSRP: $9.99 *Applies to U.S. Only
"Iconic Masters offers players a tour through some of the most powerful cards in over 23 years of Magic history. Featuring new artwork on many cards, the set brings an array of massive Angels, Sphinxes, Demons, Dragons, and Hydras alongside some of our favorite and most memorable spells."
Discuss.
Time for history lesson! :D
The reserved list was drawn up after the first true reprint set "Chronicles" was released. Players were soo outraged that their cards had dropped in value, that many people were leaving the game en masse.
In response, the Reserved List was announced. They promised to NEVER reprint any of the cards from ALL of the sets had been printed prior to Chronicles. This list of sets included: Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, Revised, Arabian Nights, Antiquities, Legends, The Dark, Fallen Empires, Ice Age, Homelands, Alliances, Mirage, Visions, Weatherlight, Tempest, Stronghold, Exodus, AND FINALLY the entirety of the Urza's block.
Of course, they didn't include any of the cards that had been reprinted prior to this lists creation.
The exact terms of the list, as quoted from their website, is as follows:
"Reserved cards will never be printed again in a functionally identical form. A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness. No cards will be added to the reserved list in the future. No cards from the Mercadian Masques set and later sets will be reserved. In consideration of past commitments, however, no cards will be removed from this list. The exclusion of any particular card from the reserved list doesn't Indicate that there are any plans to reprint that card."
Up until the release of From the Vault Relics, Wizards reserved the right to be able to reprint anything on the list in a premium format, as at the time of the lists creation, foils didn't exist. This led to a few interesting reprints:
Sadly, they removed this loophole with the announcement of From the Vault Relics.
Another interesting thing they did with the list, was remove ALL commons and uncommons from it due to the huge public support for the change.
In summary, the Reserved List is now just a list of all the rares from the sets leading up to, but not including, Mercadian Masques. Not all of them are powerful though some are due to the power level of the game at the time.
In fact, the cards on the list were not even that expensive at the time. I've been told that, once upon a time, Black Lotus was at $15. Heck, what's even more hilarious, is that there is an article explaining why they make bad cards, where Mark Rosewater showcases an angry letter he had received which complains about "sucky cards" one such example they used being Lion's Eye Diamond.
May 23, 2017 6:15 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #3
Another interesting thing they did with the list, was remove ALL commons and uncommons from it due to the huge public support for the change.
remove ALL commons and uncommons from it due to the huge public support for the change.
due to the huge public support for the change.
Huh. Interesting.
May 23, 2017 11:32 p.m.
Guftders: Dammit! Now I need a new subject for Pattern Recognition in a couple weeks! ;) Oh well.
May 24, 2017 7:29 p.m.
I... Admittedly might have looked up the bit about the removal of the commons and uncommons. I vaguely remembered that they had taken some cards off, just didn't remember specifically what, so just quoted what I found on the matter.
Eh, I reckon it was more a case of, "let's free up some design space for our commons/uncommons", rather than catering to the people.
I hate that they also closed up the possibility of more cards being removed from the list with the last update back in 2010. I mean, closing up the promo loophole was bad enough, but I hadn't realised they'd stopped the possibility of others leaving the list.
And aww damn it, I'm sorry berryjon! I genuinely love your articles, and I'm sure you would have done a much better job :)
May 26, 2017 6:50 p.m.
Actually, I thought of a nice add on to that subject to make it work. I just need to do some research and planning first.
May 26, 2017 7:23 p.m.
I hope they reprint Storm Crow. New art for my Crows Of The Storm deck!
May 27, 2017 6:52 p.m.
I should not comment on the reserved list but can't help it; it should be gone. It's foolish restricting and I would really, really want new border/art versions of the dual lands. I don't like mixing the white-bordered Revised versions with black border/new frame cards!
That done with, I know better than to expect anything mind-blowing from this and will not buy a box after the massive dissappointment with MM3 but some old cards with new frame will always be welcome. I'd like to have Filth, Valor and Glory redone. They did Anger, Brawn and Wonder already, so now the rest thank you!
May 31, 2017 6:11 p.m.
Agreed, I don't see how a couple of nerdasses lording over everyone else with their expensive as hell mana base is healthy... I want more Laissez faire! & more free access to newcomers who want equal competitive footing without being priced out of it
May 31, 2017 9:52 p.m.
It makes it "pay to play", which made me reluctant to start playing eternal formats.
May 31, 2017 10:07 p.m.
So what I'm getting out of this -
"We didn't know what to reprint, so we're just going to reprint random cards from our already existing FTVs"
June 9, 2017 6:32 p.m.
It always looks this way this early into spoilers for these kinds of sets, but it sure looks like there's a lot of value there...
September 8, 2017 4:21 p.m.
Enter the Infinite reprints
"Don't just have a reprint - have all of them."
-WotC, apparently
Somebody photoshop the art with all the big cards like Channel and Mana Drain pouring out of his head please, I'm too lazy.
Seriously, did they just throw in every card that was on the short list to reprint into one set? This is admittedly the perfect excuse.
September 8, 2017 5:23 p.m.
Dredge4life says... #18
Just need a Mox Opal reprint and I'll be over the moon.
September 8, 2017 5:29 p.m.
smackjack Unless you're counting the Masterpiece, which nobody ever does, they're too rare, the last time it was reprinted was 2 years ago. It's still pretty expensive.
What we need is Mind Twist at common.
September 8, 2017 5:34 p.m.
DarkLaw MM15 was available for purchase until just a couple of moths ago, and the printing before that was 7 years ago. 2 years ago is pretty recent when it comes to magic reprints. I doubt a reprint in a couple of years.
September 8, 2017 5:48 p.m.
smackjack That depends on the card. Mox Opal is such a powerful and often critical part of many artifact decks that it should see more than a printing every 5 years. Though this does make me consider how useful the reprint is. Competitively played cards rarely go below a certain threshold, so really need printings at lower rarities than previously as opposed to reprinting them often and at mythic. Goyf will never go down very far.
Of course, WotC is too greedy to print things like FoW or Goyf at less than mythic, or at least rare.
There are so many spoilers that MythicSpoiler isn't showing. Such as Cryptic Command.
September 8, 2017 6:07 p.m.
DarkLaw Its not about greed from WotC side, WotC is a company and the only reason for them to exist is to make money. Like all companies. Making us happy is not their mission. Making cards sought after is very important to them. They build up a ecosystem where some cards are more worth than others. If cards didnt run away in price it would be very hard for WotC to create a sought after product. They have reprinted Goys et.al over and over for a couple of master sets now, and thats the reason they can sell boosters at the premium price. I don't think Opal is one of those big hype cards as Goyf. Its limited to such a smaller playerbase. It will probably be reprinted again in a future MM set, but i think it will be a while until it does.
Cryptic is on Mythic Spoiler, but not in recent spoilers for some reason, you need to check the set. Also, i saw Magus of the Moon but now its gone..
September 8, 2017 6:20 p.m.
There is loads of sweet stuff cropping up. The set seems very heavy on walls/defenders by the looks of it, what's that about?
September 9, 2017 1:46 a.m.
This looks like the kind of set I would actually buy a booster box of, but it just isn't worth it since it costs way more than a regular one.
smackjack There's also other things important to the company, such as reputation and whatnot. They often tie in with each other, but that doesn't mean they are the same. It's the kind of reason WotC listens to the player base (on occasion), influencing their decisions on bannings and such. It's also the reason that they don't rarity bump EVERY card, or increase the MSRP of booster sets apart from Masters sets.
Anyway, I'm sure WotC's sales will be just fine if they printed Goyf as a rare or something. Its price is hardly going to stay "low" for long. Especially if printed in a Masters set.
Oh wait, I forgot the point. High rarity cards often don't deserve their rarity - WotC said originally that the mythic rare slot was supposed to be for big, splashy things - I hate the "Timmy, Johnny, Spike" representation, but sometimes it works; in this case, mythics would more or less be aimed at anything but Spikes. Plus they gave numerous other restrictions of what should be placed at mythic. Increasingly, the reverse is becoming true. A prime example is Force of Will at mythic, since there are roughly two reasons to put it at mythic. The first is because it's an iconic card (but you could say the same about Brainstorm, they don't print that at mythic). The second can be simplified as greed, but you may want to be specific and say things like "to protect investors" (defeating the point of a reprint) or "because WotC doesn't want the price to drop that much so that they can immediately reprint it whenever, but they still want the card kind of in the set to drive sales because of competitive players needing it to play legacy or even commander" (or, put simply, "greed").
September 9, 2017 4:21 a.m.
Spoiled: All the praetors, Consecrated Sphinx, Primeval Titan, Austere Command, Cryptic Command, Serra Ascendant, Decree of Pain, Thoughtseize, Lotus Cobra, Monastery Swiftspear, Magus of the Moon, Aether Vial, Oblivion Stone and more!
September 9, 2017 1:29 p.m. Edited.
aeonstoremyliver says... #28
I couldn't tell what rarity Lotus Cobra and Magus of the Moon were. Anyone get any clear shots?
September 9, 2017 1:37 p.m.
Both are way too strong to be anything less than a rare.
September 9, 2017 1:46 p.m.
"to protect investors" (defeating the point of a reprint)
Actually, reprinting Force of Will at Mythic rarity lets investors get some protection, because the market won't be flooded with the card, while the price will drop SLIGHTLY for those who want to purchase the card.
It's kind of the best of both worlds.
September 9, 2017 4:28 p.m.
I can't believe that I was holding off buying a Mana Drain until recently.
I JUST bought one.
Bad timing.
September 9, 2017 6:36 p.m.
Argy If memory serves, changes of artwork is also a way that Wizards uses to protect the value of a card. The new artwork version tends to have a lower price (compare Lorwyn Thoughtseize vs TherosThoughtseize), but if they put the bump new printing to mythic AND change the art (see Snapcaster Mage and Cavern of Souls), then the price barely changes at all. My predictions are (say 6 months after release):
Cards like Thoughtseize, Glimpse the Unthinkable, Aether Vial (ie same art same rarity) will drop a fair bit (say 50% to 25% price). The three mentioned cards should drop quite a lot because they're all from sets from years ago, back when the print run was lower
Cards like Ancestral Vision, Cryptic Command, Serra Ascendant etc (ie new art same rarity), the originals shouldn't drop that much, but the newer versions will be worth slightly less.
I'm actually pretty hyped for this set- I thought it would be mostly jank, but this is actually the best series of reprints in years. I'll be looking to pick up a lot of cards from the set, but I'm not sure I'll buy a box unless my LGS is super cool as usual and sell it for msrp
September 9, 2017 8:04 p.m.
Guftders my take away from that is that I DON'T have to be sorry that I bought a Mana Drain?
lol
September 9, 2017 9:18 p.m.
Guftders, I agree with most of what you said, except for Cryptic Command. Cryptic was barely $20 not that long ago and has been reprinted three times now if you include Iconic Masters (most recently in MM15). I think it's going to hit a saturation point and will likely drop more significantly than the others.
September 9, 2017 9:25 p.m.
I mean, dropping from $100 to $80 will barely faze a hoarder/investor. It may help "budget" players a little more, but honestly most still can't afford it. And many of those can't see the value of saving up for months to buy 4 cards, when there are better products value-wise to buy (e.g. you get around 3x the return financially from commander sets at most, and 2x at least, while buying Force of Will, which is still not going anywhere, is just a 1x return). Plus, if you're making a commitment to true eternal staples, there's a massive pool of other similarly or higher priced cards to buy, many of which are on the RL. It's too much.
Saying it's the best of both worlds is inaccurate. It's just a little of both worlds, since the two can't really overlap in significant margins.
September 10, 2017 4:10 a.m.
Best of both worlds was me saying basically as good as it's gonna get.
Magic players are never going to get card bargains from Wizards as Wizards is a for profit company.
September 11, 2017 12:53 a.m.
The weird thing about that is, Wizards intermittently does and doesn't care about reprints. Conspiracy 2 and commander 16? Those were great sets, with great reprints - some great examples are Berserk (which dropped 90%) and Show and Tell (which dropped 75%), both of which also had some gorgeous new artwork. Then, most things up until this set have been pretty "meh". It's like the set designers all want different things and they're in a constant power struggle or something. It's bizarre.
September 11, 2017 1:23 a.m.
So the full set list is up here and whenever a masters set comes out, I have a look at the number of value reprints in the set, and it's uncanny how similar numbers always come up (give or take a card or two).
there seems to be an average amount of value in the rare slot, about 15 out of the 53 rares are of value (by this I mean, worth above $10).
and in the mythic slot there seem to be about 11 mythics worth pulling.
If memory serves, I left numbers for MM15 and Eternal Masters on the MM3 spoilers discussion, but pretty sure they were roughly the same as this.
September 11, 2017 6:07 p.m.
Mind you (apologies for the second post), I did make some allowances for cards that will tank after the release of the set. For example, the reprints from future sight etc, where supply is criminally low, so the price of the cards themselves are higher than they should be
September 11, 2017 6:12 p.m.
September 12, 2017 1:34 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #44
The complete card list of this set has been revealed!
I am displeased that the majority of this set is newer cards, but there are some very nice reprints; in particular, I like the reprints of Archangel of Thune and Sheoldred, Whispering One, both of whom I need for EDH decks that I am buildings. The new artwork on the Kamigawa dragons as well as Bladewing the Risen is very nice, but I do not understand why Bladewing was demoted to an uncommon.
The reprints of the dual lands from Future Sight are very nice, but I dislike how only Horizon Canopy has new artwork, since I have four copies of Nimbus Maze in my blue/white deck,and would like to be able to have a variety of artwork for them. Hopefully, at some point in the future, the other filter lands shall be reprinted at some point and there shall be a complete cycle for Nimbus Maze.
I dearly wish that both Serra Angel and Swords to Plowshares had been given new artwork, but all the other awesome new art makes up for that, especially Disenchant and Condescend, both of which I have in various decks of mine.
It will not be easy to wait until November for this product, but I am very excited to know that it contains so many great cards. Is anyone else excited for this product?
DemonDragonJ says... #1
mande, yes, they definitely would look awesome with new artwork, and I also would like to see Sol'kanar the Swamp King and possibly other legendary creatures from the original Legends set reprinted, as well. The five primordial dragons from the Invasion block would also be welcome reprints, as well.
May 22, 2017 10:50 p.m.