Isn't it fun when Wizards reprint vintage cards straight into the ban hammer?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 23, 2015, 11:50 a.m. by pleasiodmakerblooloo
What the title is referring to is Treasure Cruise 2.0. This time, however, the card isn't doing its best, ban-worthy impression of Ancestral Recall but rather the just as powerful Timetwister. That's right. The card's name is "Day's Undoing". It is an exact copy of Timetwister except for the tiny detail in which, if cast during your turn, it precedes to end the turn, thus exiling all spells on the stack, including it, along with a bunch of other triggers. Now I believe that this is almost too good to be true and was wondering if we could get some commentary on this.
Here's a link; http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/daysundoing.html
P.S This IS worthy of its own forum.
Ending the turn is a massive downside. The decks that are going to want to utilize this type of card the most are storm decks, which need to use the cards immediately. Ending the turn means they can't, and now their opponent has a full grip of answers/aggression. Imagine playing this against burn in modern. You don't get to use the cards immediately, and they just kill you next turn or the turn after. Legacy, same deal, except now they probably have Force of Will to stop you. Is it good? Maybe in EDH. Giving it flash via Hypersonic Dragon and Vedalken Orrery does make it better, but not that much better because again, your opponents all draw seven cards. It'll probably see play, but it's nowhere near the power of Timetwister.
June 23, 2015 11:59 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #4
I don't think you realize how much of a drawback ending your turn early is.
This card is super cute in commander and standard, but anything else, I can almost guarantee that it will see little to no play. All it does is draw you some extra cards, with the drawback of your opponent also getting extra cards.
As opposed to treasure cruise, which was literally an Ancestral Recall that had the additional clause of "You cannot play this card on your first or second turn", which is literally zero drawback.
June 23, 2015 noon Edited.
Or you could, you know, play four copies of Quicken, and cast it in the end step of your opponents turn. It will probably end up getting banned in modern, and maybe legacy. Wont be banned in standard.
June 23, 2015 12:04 p.m. Edited.
Servo_Token says... #6
If you're spending four mana to draw some cards and give your opponent fresh cards as well in modern or legacy, you're doing it wrong.
June 23, 2015 12:07 p.m.
The_Black_Eagle says... #7
I agree. Quicken would make it more viable in storm. Especially because you don't lose card advantage off of quicken so you can cast it as a cantrip if you''re storming off.
June 23, 2015 12:08 p.m.
ThatJunkMage You're kidding right? Any combo deck in modern or legacy doesn't give a rats ass about giving their opponent cards as long as they refill their hand full of combo pieces. Sure they might pick up a Force of Will... but who cares, if they don't they lose. If they do, they are just back at parity.
June 23, 2015 12:09 p.m.
What?? Storm uses Timetwister as another Yawgmoth's Will, being able to refill their hand in the middle of the storm turn. Doing the Quicken strategy just makes you have seven cards in your hand, and you then need to combo out turn five, which is when the decks were hopefully comboing off anyways. Besides, even if that does work, it's not broken/format warping. This wins the game for storm on turn five(sometimes). Modern is a turn four format, according to WoTC. Good(kinda), not broken, and definitely not bannable.
June 23, 2015 12:10 p.m.
filledelanuit says... #11
This card makes might see some very small play in reset tide but other than that no one actually wants this card. Ending the turn defeats the purpose of this kind of card. Wheels are good because you get access to the cards first.
June 23, 2015 12:11 p.m.
Timetwister isn't even close to "just as powerful" to Ancestral Recall. If you need evidence of that, Recall is in 70% of vintage decks, whereas Twister is stuck only in Storm decks.
Seeing as this card kills your storm, I really don't see it having a place in modern or vintage, unless some really really aggro blue deck surfaces that can empty it's hand by turn 3/4.
June 23, 2015 12:14 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #13
This is a thread. General is a forum. You also don't need to include a notice of what you consider worthy of its own thread. You obviously think it is; you're the one who posted it.
June 23, 2015 12:15 p.m. Edited.
pleasiodmakerblooloo says... #14
I'm sorry Epochalyptik, I shall return to my cave in pity, though slightly wiser.
June 23, 2015 12:19 p.m.
Giving it flash means you now have the ultimate counter spell and start with 7 cards the next turn.
June 23, 2015 12:30 p.m.
This could legit be played in combo decks in modern if, and only if, they empty their hand out quickly. It's not totally broken though - not even close. To do anything immediate and useful it needs other cards to break it. That makes it unreliable. That makes it weak.
If you use it on its own its slowwww.
Will burn play this?
June 23, 2015 12:57 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #17
I think that the only things that will play this are burn and aggro when they need to refill. otherwise, its not THAT great.
June 23, 2015 1:04 p.m.
It's pretty sweet, but not OP. It feels like burn and some other decks will get really damn good, but others will not profit. I feel this certainly up for debate.
EDIT: Would control want this to restock? Snappys exile so it's kind hard to tell.
June 23, 2015 1:16 p.m. Edited.
This will be banned in modern. There is a reason Timetwister is one of the power 9
June 23, 2015 1:16 p.m.
I really like the card though, since the art is fresh as fuck!
June 23, 2015 1:19 p.m.
I think this is breakable. It'll be great in Burn, and Domain Zoo might become more of a thing with it, but there's a combo deck that can use this card. This effect is just super powerful, there's got to be a way to abuse it.
June 23, 2015 1:43 p.m.
slovakattack says... #24
It's extremely plausible that this card will be banned. Ending your turn is a moderate drawback at best in the decks that want to run this, as you aren't tapping your mana down in addition. You can still play all the instants you draw off this thing.
June 23, 2015 1:44 p.m.
I don't think you can play all the instants you draw off it. The entire spell needs to resolve first, right? You can't have half the spell go off, then have the other half stay on the stack, right?
June 23, 2015 1:49 p.m.
slovakattack says... #27
awphutt: You can play instants on your opponent's turn, is what I mean.
June 23, 2015 1:51 p.m.
I'm actually tempted to try this out in American Control over the Sphinx's Revelation I'm running. Outside of lands basically anything I draw I'll be able to cast on their turn and chances are when I resolve it, I'm just going to go for the kill anyways with a mix of burn and flashing in Vendilion Clique and the like.
I also REALLY like this for burn, whether it winds up as 3 or 4 color I think is the question. Regardless, emptying on their hand by turn 3? Not too hard.
June 23, 2015 2:04 p.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #30
I don't think burn will play this, giving the opponent more answers is not what burn wants. No thanks. Not to mention you'll probably just die from the mana base and/or get rekt by Blood Moon.
June 23, 2015 2:09 p.m.
I definitely don't see this as ban-worthy. There might be a few decks that take advantage of the card, and may even do moderately well, but it's not going to be a staple, or format-breaking by any means.
I think it could make it in Blue Tron. I don't see it in burn considering they have to get to 3 mana, and then take a turn off to cast it. It could be a sideboard against control at best in that deck.
For those of you that think it's the ultimate counterspell if you give it flash, you may want to read the card more carefully. It only ends the turn if it's your turn.
I think it will be a fun card, but I highly doubt it will make ANY ban lists.
June 23, 2015 2:20 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #32
I could see this being a role player in affinity. Wouldn't be too hard to replace Thoughtcast with this for some extra puking of robots.
June 23, 2015 4:08 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #33
I got really excited about this card in my Melek, Izzet Paragon EDH deck until I realized that it ends your turn and exiles everything else on the stack, so I can't copy it with Melek's ability and refill my hand twice. That being said, it'll still go in there, because I need my graveyard back and Past in Flames is too expensive for me atm. Lol
June 23, 2015 4:49 p.m.
Past in Flames is under five dollars... this faux timetwister is going to pre-sell for at least ten. Probably twenty.
June 23, 2015 4:51 p.m.
There's a month before release. These things always fluctuate.
June 23, 2015 6:20 p.m.
People don't even play Reforge the Soul, which is easier to set up as-is without using Quicken. It's harder to do in Modern (requires Telling Time, Serum Visions, etc.), but in Legacy and Vintage you have Ponder, Preordain, Brainstorm, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Sylvan Library, Mystical Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Scroll Rack, Sensei's Divining Top...the list goes on.
I think this is a really cool card and I'm anxious to see what people come up with in terms of trying to break it, but the reality is it's a much harder card to build around than Reforge the Soul.
I'm more curious if we'll see a "draw 7" deck in Modern with this, Time Reversal, and Reforge the Soul all in the format.
June 23, 2015 7:18 p.m.
jethstriker says... #38
A slight off topic question if I may ask, but somewhat related to the card in question. Will people play Wheel of Fortune in legacy burn if it was unbanned? The way I see it, in perspective of legacy burn, is both these spells cost 3 cmc, both are sorceries, both will be cast as the last card in the hand by their casters, and replaces each players' hands with new seven cards (barring the graveyard shuffle, which is in most cases irrelevant to burn). Because if the answer is yes (I'm not an expert, so I really don't know the answer), this is something to be considered to splash for.
June 23, 2015 10:55 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #39
Scapeshift with Day's Undoing... I'm coming for you.
June 23, 2015 10:57 p.m.
slovakattack says... #42
GlistenerAgent: Depends on the matchup. You don't want to be running 3 of these vs. burn. I do admit tho, the ability to slam down yo lands and just keep the chain going is tempting...
June 23, 2015 11:27 p.m.
Dalektable says... #43
Will this be good in modern burn? I certainly will be testing it...Jeskai burn here I come.
June 24, 2015 12:17 p.m.
I wonder if this helps the turns deck at all? It has always been a fun interesting deck, and maybe this gives it the push it needs to be fnm competitive or fringe playable.
June 24, 2015 3:13 p.m.
It will not see play in modern burn. You don't want to waste your turn 3 using this spell. And you don't want to play it on turn 4,becayse you should straight up win there.
However, if you could make a burn deck full of cards that deal 3 dmg for 1 mana, it might work. You would be able to deal 9 dmg turn 1 and 2, play this card turn 3, and then play another 4 3 dmg spells on turn 4,which would equal 21 dmg. However many burn decks play with cards that deal 3 dmg for 2 mana.
June 24, 2015 4:36 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #46
"However, if you could make a burn deck full of cards that deal 3 dmg for 1 mana"
Lol.
You don't have to cast this card on turn 3. You can cast it whenever your hand is empty and they aren't dead.
June 24, 2015 4:41 p.m.
It's not broken, but it's certainly good. It's gonna see play in Burn somewhere, and it sounds plausible in Scapeshift. But it's not something like Treasure Cruise, where you could jam 4 of them into everything.dec and make it work.
June 24, 2015 4:50 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #48
It's good, but it's slow. Even if we throw Quicken in there there are better thing to be doing in Modern with 4 mana. Especially when you need those slots for other things. You can't just dedicate 5-8 slots of a deck just to return everything to parity, especially if you're down.
This won't be banned. And if it is then I'll be amazed.
June 24, 2015 5:14 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #49
Is Day's Undoing going to be good? Maybe.
Is it going to be problematic? Probably not.
Effect like this are, by their nature, symmetrical. The way that you break them (and then they become problematic, and might need banning) is if you somehow can break he symmetry by making an effect much better for you than it is for the opponent.
In Legacy and Vintage that happens because of Storm. Storm decks don't care about your hand... Even, to a degree, if it has Force of Will because they don't care about what they are casting (and whether it resolves) too much as long as they are casting stuff. They just want seven new cards so they can keep going and keep going and eventually Tendrils of Agony you for a million.
That doesn't happen with Day's Undoing. The turn ends so they can't keep casting stuff. If storm decks are unable to break this card, I doubt it will be problematic enough to be banned from modern (and it's almost certainly going to be fine in standard).
Maybe the facts will prove me wrong but I think this will just be yet another card that gets a lot of hype before being printed, and not a lot of play afterwards.
June 24, 2015 5:33 p.m.
"You don't have to cast this card on turn 3. You can cast it whenever your hand is empty and they aren't dead."
Lol.
If your hand is empty, and the opponent isn't dead, he will certainly be very close to being dead. (in the 1-4 life range). A card that refills your hand would be decent in that situation (TC...)
However, a card that refills your opponent's AND ends the turn is not.
Imagine this: turn 4. You have played all your burn spells, but you still need that last bit of damage. You top deck this. Sweet you think. You play, refill your hand with lots of bolts. Now you just need to play them. But... You still have 3 lands, which means that you can't play the bolt for the last 3 dmg...
If you somehow have the 4th land turn 4, you would be way too behind. Playing this card when you only have 3 lands I'd not good. Having more than 3 lands is neither good.
However, the all 3 dmg spell deck could be quite fun! (Pretty reliable turn 4 win.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #2
This thread title doesn't make sense. So basically you think Day's Undoing needs to be banned?
June 23, 2015 11:56 a.m.