Karametra, Tandris' Chieftain
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Jan. 16, 2014, 12:16 a.m. by Spootyone
Karametra, God of the Harvests
Indestructible
Normal stuff
Whenever you cast a creature spell, you may search your library for a plains or forest and put it on the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.
Maybe it's just based on first impressions and the wake of the ever-famous Emmara Tandris blunder, but I'm incredibly dissapointed in my guild's new "god". This card feels as though it would have little to no use in standard right off the bat, as a 5-drop ramp goddess. Devotion makes her good, of course, but what is G/W going to ramp into past 5 mana anyway? Mistcutter Hydra ? that's no devotion at all, practically. And what makes me more upset is that Most of what I've seen of these high-cost G/W cards still involve tokens, such as Advent of the Wurm and Pheres-band centaurs (I think is its name?)
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this will help make something like Armada Wurm viable in standard. I'm going to do my best to be part of the forefront to make this card work, but I'm just highly disappointed...
Thank you cr14mson. Forgot to add that.
I think it works in EDH, yes, but that's the thing. I've been looking forward to Selesnya getting a god to maybe play with along the rest of all the gods being announced here and there and suddenly we're given an edh card. I'm just hoping they spoil things that make her more viable.
I'm already beginning to brew a little. With enough ramp maybe she could work alongside something like Angel of Serenity and maybe Armada Wurm . Don't get me wrong -- If I get to play a deck with both those cards, I will be ecstatic. I'm just hoping it isn't a clearly T2 or even T3 build.
January 16, 2014 12:23 a.m.
She'll be a really great EDH general. I'm pleased. Plus she'll be pretty in foil.
January 16, 2014 12:25 a.m.
Also, I like that her ability isn't restricted to basics. You can find shocks, or even things like Mistveil Plains .
January 16, 2014 12:26 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #7
I think she'll be pretty terrible in Standard, but that's not the point. She's an EDH goddess, pardon the pun.
Selesnya didn't have any really special options for a general until now. She's sweet.
January 16, 2014 12:43 a.m.
Honestly, I think she'll be pretty good, even standard playable. You can ramp into her turn 4 no problem, and probably turn 3. The format is slowing down, and I think higher cmc creatures will become more playable, especially in green with the ramp available. I just think Selesnya decks will have to start looking at longer, less aggressive builds. If you can get her out turn 3 or 4, she generates such a huge advantage each turn.I wouldn't focus so much on what she ramps into. By pulling lands out of your library, you thin it out and increase your chances of drawing creatures. Selesnya has problems generating card draw, so making each draw count is very valuable.
January 16, 2014 1:01 a.m.
I'm currently brewing up something with ramp into her and then maybe a finisher such as Angel of Serenity . I do appreciate the deck thinning, even if it's on a small degree. The issue is that it requires creatures to be played to activate, so I'm having to work around that angel as well. This isn't easy lol.
January 16, 2014 1:11 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #11
It strikes me as similar to Liliana of the Dark Realms but not as good of ramp. They could have pushed her to 2 lands per creature and it'd be okay. Or at least untapped.
January 16, 2014 1:24 a.m.
I'm just curious of Journey to Nyx gives us gods to the other guild lineups, I would love for my guild to get a god (Izzet)
January 16, 2014 1:53 a.m.
Tradeylouish says... #13
It will. The name of the UR god is Keranos (mentioned in the flavor text of Steam Augury and Lightning Strike ).
January 16, 2014 1:56 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #14
Sadly Spootyone, I think you're right. It's an EDH powerhouse, but not really viable in other formats. It also seems especially un-Selesnya like, at least for the current rotation with the Ravnica block, since it requires "creature spells" and thus there's no room for token-producing instants and sorceries. It also sucks that the best GW Devotion card (Trostani, Selesnya's Voice ) seems to have little synergy.
But here's a card to consider: Primeval Bounty . Now every creature spell gets a Beast token for Populating fun, a land, and 3 life.
If it makes you feel better, my favorite guild is Simic, imo one of the Johnniest guilds, and we had to grin and bear it when the completely un-Johnny Kiora, the Crashing Wave was spoiled as the guild's first ever planeswalker. The ONLY situation in which that card might be viable is Maze's End Turbofog, which makes me want to puke.
January 16, 2014 4:03 a.m.
Haha thanks for that, I feel your pain too. Alot of what you said in that first paragraph are my exact feelings. It makes me sad that I began making a deck for her and it just can't even be used due to how she works (you mentioned trostani, for example)
I have heard of/noticed the synergy with Primeval Bounty though. I think I'm going to try to figure that one out. I much prefer playing midrange over aggro, so i'm not necessarily unhappy to get a way to make that more possible, but I just don't think it can be competitive until I (or someone) finds a magic (pun!) solution against control. It may mean splashing a third color, which is much more doable since she can search for shocks.
I love bant, but I feel that's too obvious. And her "cast a creature" ability doesn't fit well with bant's normal playstyle. Junk would be my next favorable choice. I'll have to do some researching and come up with a few more prototypes for testing.
January 16, 2014 4:19 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #16
Actually, I was thinking Bant Ramp could be pretty awesome, mostly because of the card draw options like Prime Speaker Zegana and Sphinx's Revelation , and Prophet of Kruphix to use Karametra's ramp right away. That way you have a bunch of mana dorks to trigger Karametra & Primeval Bounty while having the cards to keep it going and the tempo to do it quickly..Load up on Rootborn Defenses to thwart Supreme Verdict and you're in business. I, of course, would be including Master Biomancer in this deck to make all the dorks and Beasts huge, but that's probably optional.
January 16, 2014 4:30 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #17
And here's the shameless plug- it'd probably be a Selesnya tweak of my current competitive Simic deck- My Prophet, Your Loss (Top 4 FNM)
January 16, 2014 4:32 a.m.
The amount of mana advantage she could give is insane. She'll be just barely playable in some decks, even in standard.
January 16, 2014 6:52 a.m.
Standard playable for sure. She has great targets to ramp into: Angel of Serenity , Armada Wurm , and don't forget that 3 color is still a thing. Bant allows access to some really nutty 6 and 7 cmc cards that would benefit from the ramp. Red, the bombs kind of curve out at 5 anyway so Naya gets no love here but Junk has some nasty demons you could ramp into. That all said....think of it like this, too. G/W loves to lay down more land, to play more creatures. I wouldn't build around her just yet, but she can help in a G/W shell. Much better than Emara.
As for EDH, than you WotC!!!! I found a G/W general I won't hate to use. 5 mana on turn 2 is very doable in EDH and I would love to play this as a general. Search up my Temple Garden and Savannah to fix me well on mana and curve into Craterhoof Behemoth early on. She is cool
January 16, 2014 8:52 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #20
What about a Naya control deck? Play her and ramp, Sylvan Caryatid still dodges both black sweepers. Polukranos, World Eater other fattys, Advent of the Wurm , Assemble the Legion , maybe Trostroni. Imagine the ramp off Assemble, your deck would thin very fast. Garruk, Caller of Beasts fits, maybe even Domri Rade .
I'm playing Naya but its Gruul splash Boros with no Selesnya. I was going to keep an eye on what they got new. Remember that the uncommons have been amazing. I think it might be a bear that taps for GW mana.
January 16, 2014 9:03 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #21
Rasta_Viking29: Unfortunately, ramping with Assemble the Legion does not work (or other token-makers like Advent of the Wurm for that matter) since it only happens when you cast a creature spell.
January 16, 2014 9:08 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #22
I like her, but other than being an all-star in edh and limited, she's really terrible.
In limited I would for sure play this, chances of it turning into a creature is slim, but ramping everytime I play a creature (like 70% of cards) and thinning out my deck, oh gawd yes. fun fun.
January 16, 2014 9:29 a.m.
Is it just me or does selesnya never know what it wants to be?Voice of Resurgence
/Fleecemane Lion
/Loxodon Smiter
are very good aggro cards, while Armada Wurm
/Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
/Emmara Tandris
support token strategies, and then karametra comes along supports ramp into Armada Wurm
and Angel of Serenity
.
karametra definitely wasnt built for standard, but EDH, where selesnya didnt have a good non-token general as an option.
January 16, 2014 9:42 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #24
@ChrisHansonBiomancin Doh! That sucks. Guess I never really read it.
January 16, 2014 10:18 a.m.
You have to remember than in a high ramping standard deck you can achieve Karametra on turn 3 or 4. Once you have her down, every large creature that you play increases to the ramp and increases your tempo. This makes high CMC deck a lot easier to maintain.
January 16, 2014 10:22 a.m.
Dudes, Bant Flash, get Hallowed Fountain s, Breeding Pool s, and of coarse Temple Garden s every time I flash in a Boon Satyr ? Yes please...draw with the UW god? thank you.
Deputy of Acquittals is something that brings a guy up so you reap both benifits from the gods, or even save a stronger guy and set up for a Supreme Verdict , and with Lyev Skyknight and Lavinia of the Tenth shits gettin done.
Welcome to the New Theros Order.
January 16, 2014 4:26 p.m.
CW: It's funny you mention that. I spent most of my day at work today thinking of how to make her work and the obvious choice seems to be bant. I think that's the route I'm going to take with her. Sphinx's Revelation is just too good right now not to take advantage of.
January 16, 2014 8:30 p.m.
Rhinowarrior says... #28
Naya control would be nasty.... Play defensive creatures Yoked Ox and walls. build up to karametra. when you get to her lay someGround Assault s, along with a Rubblehulk perhaps? A little different from yours but her ability should be abused and those two cards... damn.
January 16, 2014 9:16 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #29
Post your deck link when you do. I have Simic cards and thought about Bant Control but no Azorius cards. Selesnya cards are more affordable and I'm playing G/R/w Monsters as my main deck.
You going to use Ephara, God of the Polis ?
January 16, 2014 9:26 p.m.
I'll have to see if I can, Rasta_Viking29. I mean about Ephera lol. I have the first bant prototype complete now and I'm doing some initial testing to feel the flow of it. I'd like to include her if I can. We will have to see. She does work really well with Detention Sphere for devotion.
January 16, 2014 9:34 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #31
I had also thought about including Ephara, God of the Polis in the Bant build being discussed, but at the end of the day there are much better options for card advantage and Azorius doesn't have many intriguing options outside of Detention Sphere .
January 16, 2014 9:52 p.m.
Ultimaodin says... #32
How to Bant beat down style:
1 drops:
2 drops:
2x Kiora's Follower
3 drops
3x Witchstalker
4 drop:
5drops
2x Karametra, God of the Harvests
6 drops:
Land:
very rough build made in 5 minutes, I'd make it in the deck builder and put more thought into it but a number of cards still aren't recognised.
January 16, 2014 11:34 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #33
Ephara is a 4-drop, but looks like a solid rough draft.
January 17, 2014 2:01 a.m.
Ultimaodin says... #34
My bad... XD It's hard when I can't see the card art by hovering over.
The new green Archetype may make it in - but at 8cmc I'd rather just play the blue Archetype of Imagination and beat down with my army of fliers.
January 17, 2014 2:59 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #35
Alright here's my take- 10 mana dorks, token-producing creatures (including the newly-spoiled Brimaz, King of Orezkos), mad counter dispersal from Master Biomancer , heavy-hitting draw power, and lots of life gain.
1-DROP: 3x Elvish Mystic
2-DROP: 3x Kiora's Follower; 4x Sylvan Caryatid ; 3x Voice of Resurgence
3-DROP: 2x Brimaz, King of Orezkos; 3x Loxodon Smiter
4-DROP: 3x Master Biomancer ; 2x Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
5-DROP: 3x Prophet of Kruphix ; 2x Scion of Vitu-Ghazi ; 2x Karametra, God of Harvests
6-DROP: 2x Prime Speaker Zegana ; 2x Armada Wurm ; 1x Primeval Bounty
SPHINX-DROP: 2x Sphinx's Revelation
LAND: 4x Breeding Pool ; 4x Temple Garden ; 4x Hallowed Fountain ; 4x Temple of Plenty ; 4x Temple of Mystery ; 3x Temple of Enlightenment
January 17, 2014 3:14 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #36
Oh shit mix in a couple Grove of the Guardian in there too.
January 17, 2014 3:18 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #37
On one hand I like the Archtype of Endurance since Hexproof for the team is pretty ridiculous, but on the other hand, I expect a Craterhoof Behemoth -type impact from my 8-drops.,
January 17, 2014 3:29 a.m.
Ultimaodin says... #38
Pure Selesnya time. How about Selesnya wolves:
1-DROP:4x Elvish Mystic ,
2-DROP:4x Sylvan Caryatid , 4x Voice of Resurgence
3-DROP:4x Witchstalker , 1x Bow of Nylea , 2x Wayfaring Temple
4 -DROP:4x Raised by Wolves, 2x Trostani, Selesnya's Voice , 4x Briarpack Alpha , 1x Nylea, God of the Hunt
5-DROP:2x Karametra, God of Harvests
6-DROP:2x Primeval Bounty
7-DROP:3x Howl of the Night Pack
LAND:4x Temple Garden , 4x Temple of Plenty 12x Forest , 3x Plains
January 17, 2014 3:57 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #39
Selesnya Keyrune . And Raised by Wolves is a 5-drop :)
January 17, 2014 4:09 a.m.
Ultimaodin says... #40
Damn, why am I so bad at this today. Also, forgot the Keyrune becomes a wolf.
January 17, 2014 4:12 a.m.
It could be useful in a Prime Speaker Zegana Bant list, like this one.
January 18, 2014 5:44 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #43
Damn that's a pretty mean list. I will say that having nothing but mana dorks until the 4-drops seems a little loose, and probably susceptible to aggro, but I love me a deck with tons of ramp and draw power. I'm encouraged to see that he's been getting away with so many 6+ drops (including Sphinx's Revelation for all intents and purposes).
Also, have you guys been playtesting Brimaz, King of Oreskos ? Dude is a beast; you're nearly getting Loxodon Smiter for the cost except with vigilance and spamming tokens. I was a little skeptical of putting him in my list to start due to the WW cost, but after a few test runs he's there to stay. I love curving into Master Biomancer before attacking with him.
I went ahead and made the decklist- This One's for Karametra. It's still raw, like I still need to find room for stuff like Detention Sphere and Rootborn Defenses , but I'm really digging the synergy, I think I might have to play something similar once BotG comes out. Ironically, and counter to this thread, I'm thinking that Karametra, God of Harvests is going to have to be replaced with Archangel of Thune .
January 19, 2014 8:27 a.m.
Ultimaodin says... #44
Oh the cards work now do they? Time to put my wolf deck in
January 19, 2014 8:30 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin: Bahaha that description. To be fair, I've always loved Archangel of Thune . You know I'm actually quite happy to see I'm not the only person out there determined to make her have a place and not be a strict downgrade to something else. In most decks and archetypes I've tried using her in she has been such, be it in mostly green ramp decks or g/w aggro and/or midrange. I ended up turning to bant just like most people have done. I actually have been brewing my own build and ended up finding a unique synergy/combo that I'm loving oh so much. I can't wait to reveal it in an article once I get finished!
January 19, 2014 2:05 p.m.
Ultimaodin: The problem I have with your deck is the same I had with many of my own which was that you could simply remove Karametra and the deck would function relatively the same. Besides sometimes being a big creature that easily is taken care of due to the nature of devotion, she doesn't impact the deck like she should. By this I mean her ramp doesn't do anything besides let you maybe play Howl of the Night Pack one turn earlier.
I like the idea of Prime Speaker Zegana and Sphinx's Revelation simply because they refill your hand at a time when you'll hopefully have a ton of mana to use it for.
January 19, 2014 2:09 p.m.
Yeah, this is definitely a bant card. And it searches for a Temple Garden , Hallowed Fountain or Breeding Pool , which will then untap thanks to prophet, and then you draw 10 cards from a revelation, and then you ulty Kiora, and then you obliterate EVERYTHING MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
January 19, 2014 5:41 p.m.
lord_of_the_snakes says... #48
at least you have something for your guild, with my deck, I get maybe Champion of Stray Souls
(golgari self-mill)
January 19, 2014 6:35 p.m.
You know what Karametra lets you do? Play 5 colour decks. Quite reliably probably.
January 19, 2014 6:47 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #50
That's true ChiefBell, especially if you're also running dorks like Manaweft Sliver and Sylvan Caryatid . Maybe stick with mostly GW but mix in heavy-hitters at the top of the curve like Ashen Rider , Aurelia, the Warleader , Rakdos's Return , and the Blue card-advantage options already discussed.
Tradeylouish says... #2
At least it looks like a cool EDH card.
January 16, 2014 12:19 a.m.