Lands
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on March 8, 2015, 3:03 a.m. by showda
Do we have any idea on what exactly the non-basic lands for this set is going to be? I know that nothing except for a Evolving Wilds has been spoiled yet, but I'm wondering if anyone's heard any rumors. I've got plans on a couple of Allied colored deck ideas running in my head and I'm wondering if i'd get any land support for it. ((Jund/Naya if anyone's wondering))
slovakattack says... #3
Also, you know. Return to Zendikar. Fetches will probably be in there.
March 8, 2015 3:09 a.m.
slovakattack - I think we all want them to be there, but we have no real idea if they will. If I had to put a probability on it, I'd say it's about 50% of enemy fetches being in Battle for Zendikar.
March 8, 2015 3:17 a.m.
Don't you know? 78.5% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
March 8, 2015 3:31 a.m.
They've started to split cycles of lands which is really annoying people. I doubt they'll start splitting half cycles of land. So you get like 3 zen fetches in one set and then 2 in another. That would be frustrating for players and horrible to draft. It would be like saying 'hey look at this enemy coloured set - but there's NO golgari mana support - you HAVE to draft orzhov!'
March 8, 2015 6:10 a.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #9
They either print all five or none at all. End of story. JWiley129: Can you do that magic you just did with the Fetches evaluating if there's a chance Rugged Highlands, Swiftwater Cliffs, Thornwood Falls and friends will be reprinted? Would be nice to know. Because if they aren't, I assume Evolving Wilds will be a freakishly high pick for Drafts, because you really can't rely on the fix-lands that you'll see this one single pack of Fate Reforged.
I mean, if they're not in the list, they still might be in the boosters. Fetchlands were in the Fate-Boosters, too, and still not being a re-reprint.
March 8, 2015 7:11 a.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #10
ChiefBell: Would you really consider the Fetch Lands to be an influence on the draftability (this word probably doesn't exist) of a set? You see so few Fetchlands anyways and the likelyhood that you see the one fitting your colours is even lower. I mean, yeah, finding one in your colours is winning the jackpot, but considering the influence of Fetchlands to determine whether the set is "horrible to draft" or not... I think that's an overestimation of the influence that these rares can have.
March 8, 2015 7:15 a.m.
CaptainWoosh - It should be pretty clear that there won't be the gain-lands (Rugged Highlands and friends) in Dragons of Tarkir, since DTK isn't a 3-color set and doesn't need that level of mana-fixing. And again, the numbers just wouldn't add up with Evolving Wilds being 2 lands away from the basics. I would expect some lands, but I don't think they will be fetches.
I mean, they COULD rename the fetches, but that seems like a terrible idea.
March 8, 2015 7:16 a.m.
CaptainWoosh: Yeh I really would. When you draft you don't force colours, you go with what's best supported. Fetchlands support your mana base really well. I realise you're going to open far more common lands than rare, but they're still very important, yeah. And it would be frustrating to know there's only support for 3 of the 5 possibilities.
March 8, 2015 7:23 a.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #13
Hypothetically, they could just reprint the friendly-coloured gainlands. If you look at the art of the gainlands, Swiftwater Cliffs and Swiftwater Cliffs, those that were in enemy colours would represent one clan that plays it in one set (Khans example is Temur, see the banner) and the follow-up would represent the other clan (Jeskai, see the Monastery in the mountain). They could just do such a thing with the Friendly Coloured now. That would be:
245 Blossoming Sands
246 Bloodfell Caves
247 Dismal Backwater
248 Evolving Wilds
250 Tranquil Cove
Basic Lands
Well, to be honest, that seems like a pretty likely thing here.
March 8, 2015 7:23 a.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #14
Well yeah I kind of made a typo in my list:
245 Blossoming Sands
246 Bloodfell Caves
247 Dismal Backwater
248 Evolving Wilds
249 Rugged Highlands
250 Tranquil Cove
Basic Lands
March 8, 2015 7:25 a.m.
They don't have enough space to do that though, I don't think. Due to the number that Evolving Wilds is and the fact that 250 is the first plains I think.
March 8, 2015 7:25 a.m.
I would be REALLY surprised if they only reprinted the allied gainlands. The numbers do add up, but I doubt that is what will happen.
March 8, 2015 7:32 a.m.
It's an ally set. It would make perfect drafting sense. Have we already had all 10 of the gainlands?
March 8, 2015 7:35 a.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #19
Yeah, it doesn't work out, though. Unless there's something I'm missing, if we'd start at 251 with basics, we only have 14 basics. That doesn't really work out, does it? There'd have to be a non-basic-land fewer to make it work with three arts per basic and four more non-basics... well, whatever. We have some more non-basics coming at us, no matter what.
I somehow do agree on the Fetchland-Issue, by the way. It will, looking at 100.000 Drafts, probably influence the likelihood of one combo being better than the other. That sucks and will inevitably lead to one pair being drafted fewer for reasons that are retarded. But as I said, Wizards would never do that. They're weird, not dumb.
March 8, 2015 7:37 a.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #20
Wow, I'm good at double-posting today. ChiefBell, I'm not sure where your question points, but if I interpret this right, the answer is "Yes". All Two-Colour-Combiantions had their land:
March 8, 2015 7:39 a.m.
So it would be reasonable to reprint only some of them given that they all saw a print in this same block so in a sense none of them have been 'left out'. I don't think the numbers quite add up, but it certainly would be an elegant solution. Like guild gates in RTR.
March 8, 2015 7:43 a.m.
If the set is an ally set, do we really need the mana-fixing? We didn't need mana fixing when drafting Theros and/or M15. Why would we need it in a 2-color focused set?
March 8, 2015 7:47 a.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #23
I'm not saying we need it. It's nice to have, and they're already in the block. That's all. I think being able to pick one, two or even three Evolving wilds over the course of a draft should easily be enough mana fixing for two coloured decks, and apart from Sarkhan Unbroken there won't be any Three-Coloured card in a D/D/F draft (as of now).
March 8, 2015 7:49 a.m.
I feel like Khans and Fate-Khans-Khans has spoiled us for Limited with all the fixing that was present. And I feel like having one-two Evolving Wilds in a draft deck should be enough for a splash in an ally colored deck. Also, don't forget that we still have one pack of Fate Reforged to grab a gain-land or two if you really feel like you need it.
March 8, 2015 7:53 a.m.
Theros and core sets are typically mono colour orientated. This is dual colour orientated like RTR. RTR had guild gates in every set, even when they were redundant.
March 8, 2015 8:03 a.m.
accelerando11 says... #26
Is there maybe a chance that they might replace the basic land with a gainland from an earlier set in some packs? I feel like they've done something similar before.
March 8, 2015 11:19 a.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #27
accelerando11, that's basically what they did with KTK Fetch Lands in FRF Packs.
March 8, 2015 11:24 a.m.
HolyFalcon says... #28
Wat if they don't do 20 basics, lime last time? They could only do three, leaving space for fetches.
March 8, 2015 11:55 a.m.
accelerando11 says... #29
CaptainWoosh So it's still a possibility, then? I don't see why it couldn't be.
March 8, 2015 12:04 p.m.
I personally want to see enemy colored manlands myself, but I doubt that that's going to happen. It's a good hope though.
March 8, 2015 12:06 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #31
accelerando11 - Yes, it is. I actually think it's quite likely.
March 8, 2015 12:14 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #32
I am hoping some utility lands. I want things I can use in EDH on par with stuff like Volrath's Stronghold, Yavimaya Hollow, Minamo, School at Water's Edge
March 8, 2015 12:19 p.m.
Hopefully Sulfurous Springs, Underground River, and the others to finish off the set of 5 enemy lands we got in M15.
March 9, 2015 2:38 a.m.
(I already posted much of this in the DTK spoiler thread before seeing this thread)
Usually they show the Basic Land artwork early, but haven't yet, so I'm thinking there's something special about these ones.
There is definitely one that comes after Evolving Wilds, but there could be some before it. (currently, card numbers 234-247 are unknown... but there could be more multicolour, and we haven't seen any artifacts yet.
I'm thinking there will be another iteration of Tomb of the Spirit Dragon / Crucible of the Spirit Dragon... something that shows Ugin's emergence from the Crucible.
Hopefully this one will be a little more playable.
I'm thinking:
Cradle of the Spirit Dragon
Land
"As Cradle of the Spirit Dragon enters the battlefield, you may reveal a Dragon card from your hand. If you don't and you don't control a dragon, Cradle of the Spirit Dragon enters the battlefield tapped."
"
: Add to your mana pool."
": Add 1 mana of any color to your mana pool, spend this mana only to cast dragon spells or activate abilities of dragons."
While not totally impossible that the allied lands get reprinted, it would mean that there are not 3 of each basic land as the Basics start at 250, and evolving Wilds is 248... that would mean there needs to be 2 cards in slot 249.
It is also possible that the allied lands are not "reprinted" (do not take up a numbered card slot for the set), but could still be included in the basic land slot of DTK packs, allowing for better mana fixing in draft.
March 9, 2015 8:54 a.m.
That actually would make a lot of sense! It gives us fixing for the appropriate Broods, plus we still have the 10 gainlands from Fate Reforged so you get better fixing for splashing.
Now that Zendikar has been announced, with the fact they have mentioned they would revisit landfall, and fetches fit in with landfall so well, seeing the other 5 fetch's in Zendikar makes the most sense.
March 9, 2015 8:55 a.m.
I'm still not convinced that we will see any common level fixing aside from Evolving Wilds. Also why would they put more fixing in a 2-color set? Sure they did for RTR block, but that was all two color combinations and odds are you could end up in multiple guilds (full disclosure: I never drafted RTR or GTC).
March 9, 2015 9:01 a.m.
I don't see anything at common level considering we will have gainlands in fate reforged. The set doesn't need it as fate has only 10 gold cards, one for each guild and the hybrid abilities can all match up with the Brood colour pairings.
Dragons so far has had only Brood colour gold cards asides from our new Temur Sarkhan! With evolving wilds at common in dragons, gainlands at common in fate having the painlands at rare in Dragons just makes fixing a little nicer for the set and gives us the complete cycle.
March 9, 2015 9:09 a.m.
The main reason I think we won't see gain lands in the basic land slot is due to the new rotation schedule.
Currently, when KTK and FRF rotate the Fetches and gain lands rotate with them... and, although not 'reprinted' in DTK, their inclusion in the packs mat confuse some people (especially new players), who will assume they will remain in standard because they saw the cards in the packs.
For this reason alone, it is best if these lands are not available in these packs.
March 9, 2015 9:17 a.m.
I'm also realizing that the Draft format for DTK is DTK-DTK-FRF... (unlike the FRF-KTK-KTK we currently have). This means we will open the more multicolour packs first, allowing us to prioritize land in the FRF pack ONLY if it's required based on the DTK picks.
March 9, 2015 4:17 p.m.
JWiley129 - you are correct that drafting rtf was often a three colour affair.
March 9, 2015 4:22 p.m.
CastleSiege says... #42
Rayenous, it is my understanding that khans will rotate when BFZ is released but FRF and DTK will rremain in standard for the new world order.
March 10, 2015 11:01 a.m.
Nope. Khans is in rotation for 18 months. So will rotate out once the block AFTER BFZ is released.
March 10, 2015 11:03 a.m.
Good for standard as well. The new dragon decks we will not doubt be seeing will all play this.
I'm really hoping we see a decent Dragon deck actually being standard playable!
March 10, 2015 11:18 a.m.
Maltanis I will do my best to make this happen, the question is Jund or Naya
March 10, 2015 11:34 a.m.
You need to be running the new Sarkhan Unbroken, so I think a Temur splash Black build could be good. Although with cards like "Haven of the Spirit Dragon" & Sylvan Caryatid you have pretty good access to all the colour's. 5 colour dragons in standard would be mental!
You've got so much choice it's ridiculous! I expect to see many, many brews appearing over the coming months.
March 10, 2015 12:13 p.m.
So that is #249? That leaves room for 3 different artwork for each basic
March 11, 2015 2:14 p.m.
And khans will drop off standard before fate and dragons witch is why the put the "gain lands" in fate as well as khans
March 11, 2015 2:16 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #50
Kozelek, Khans of Tarkir and Fate Reforged rotate as one, Dragons of Tarkir rotates on its own. All gain-lands rotate at once.
With Sarkhan's Triumph, the Sarkhan walker isn't necessarily needed. I think Naya Dragons should be a big thing.
JWiley129 says... #2
The only thing I know is that we won't be getting enemy fetches in DTK. The numbers just don't allow it with Evolving Wilds being 248 and the first basic Plains being 250, there isn't space for Verdant Catacombs, Marsh Flats, Misty Rainforest, Scalding Tarn after E.
March 8, 2015 3:05 a.m.