Leaks = Ban
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 15, 2017, 3:33 p.m. by yeaGO
FYI. Please report any leaked images to the contact form and do not participate in discussions on this site that include such leaks.
If you have posted images in any discussion, report them to the contact form immediately so they can be removed, or the whole thread/deck and the poster's account is likely to become forfeited.
In summary:
don't post links and/or text from unofficially leaked cards
You're free to discuss the economics or implications of a leak, you're just not free to disseminate the material itself on the site. I'm not really sure why that's so complicated.
June 16, 2017 5:35 p.m.
yeaGO So, in summary, it's fine to:
Notify people of a leak
Discuss the potential ramifications of the leak
Discuss themes and/or make vague statements about leakss (e.g. X creature is really good, could warp standard format, etc.)
What you can't do:
Post links to or photos of leaks (or tell people where specifically to find them).
Quote card text or strongly imply it (e.g. in detailed card analysis)
Is that correct? It's just that it's hard to draw distinct lines on something like this, so people naturally get confused.
June 16, 2017 5:58 p.m.
DarkLaw,
I think the "detailed card analysis" phrase you used might be a slippery slope.
Over on Ixalan Spoilers (NO LEAKS), I'm trying "we CANNOT include images or descriptions/stats of those cards, or links to a site that has them, unless they have been officially acknowledged/spoiled by Wizards."
June 16, 2017 6:03 p.m. Edited.
Those replies do not seem that contradictory. Suffice it to say the level of attention you will get discussing leaks will go down immensely when the verbatim material itself stops appearing on the site.
June 16, 2017 6:06 p.m.
I don't think anyone is questioning that it's a rule yeaGO where questioning why it's a rule
June 16, 2017 6:16 p.m.
shadow63,
I can no longer tell if you're just trolling or if you're serious. If you're serious, please go back and read the posts where Epoch and others have already tried to explain to you exactly why. If you're trolling, please stop.
June 16, 2017 6:24 p.m. Edited.
I doubt he's trolling and if he is then I guess I am too as I completely agree with him (or her) on this. Any reasons beyond manipulating the secondary market, which this site has no vested interest in, is purely subjective and should be open for discussion.
June 16, 2017 6:41 p.m.
jparker-sartori21 says... #10
Yeah, I also want to talk about the leaks and (maybe) brew with them. I get the legal issue but is there a way for us to maybe talk about the new cards (LEAKED) without being banned?
June 16, 2017 6:46 p.m.
Well if you folks aren't trolling, then you're pretty terrible readers.
June 16, 2017 6:53 p.m.
yeaGO despite your obvious frustration, there's no need to be condescending. There are definitely two ways to look at this and while you ultimately have the final say that doesn't mean that you're just absolutely correct. Some of the community on this site that you've made for us, thanks btw, want an open dialogue about this and to just want to shut that down doesn't sit well with everyone. Especially on a topic with so much grey area.
June 16, 2017 7:30 p.m.
What gray area exists that hasn't been addressed very thoughtfully by clayperce and DarkLaw several inches above this statement? Happy to address any lingering concerns.
This isn't about my being correct. This is about protecting the site from hosting and disseminating leaks of legally infringing content, as well as protecting the brand itself, without which this site wouldn't exist.
June 16, 2017 7:42 p.m. Edited.
yeaGO id agree with that last statement if this site was the originator of the leaks. But where not wotc wouldn't go after this site they'd go after the host sites such as mythic spoiler. Also as long as there's a demand for the leaks people will supply them and as long as sites like read it and youtube exist the leaks will be easy to look at. Why shouldn't be we be allowed to post pics and discuss them. I'm sure you and/or your fellow admins have looked at and talked about them.
June 16, 2017 7:59 p.m.
I may be in the minority here but aside from deckbuikding and lore the main reason I love tappedout is specifically to discuss stuff like this, leaks/spoilers. Look, I'm not a lawyer and feel that you are very much just protecting the site from any legal ramifications that may occur.. common sense tells me that you'd be in the clear as the links being posted are from other sites but common sense isn't the law and to that I am ignorant. My main issue was just the way this was handled. Banning people and then saying this isn't open for discussion when it seems discussing things is one of the reasons that t/o is so popular. The gray areas that exist are the possible legal ramifications or why can't we talk about specific cards that are now public knowledge without posting any pics of the leaks. That all being said, I know this is futile so I'll let it be. Thanks again for giving us all a chance to be apart of this great community :)
June 16, 2017 8:04 p.m.
You're absolutely free to discuss the leaks and their implications here, you just have to find the content elsewhere.
The only reason I disabled accounts was because I was worried about the content being reposted. It wasn't meant as anything punitive. Disabling account gives me an opportunity to have a personal discussion with the owner, while limiting the damage in the short-term.
Glad you're here :)
June 16, 2017 8:11 p.m. Edited.
So serious question. When would we be able to talk about the leaks? Obviously it would be perfectly fine once Wizards starts the leaked set's spoiler season, but does that mean no conversations can be held until then or is there a specific set time before then in which conversation may be allowed about the leaked content?
June 17, 2017 7:14 a.m.
StopShot,
We're working to sort out exactly that question over at Ixalan Spoilers (NO LEAKS). You're welcome to join us!
June 17, 2017 7:26 a.m.
I understand and can appreciate not wanting to support the people who leak content by hosting images and discussions on this site. That's fine. But let's stop acting like it's the end of the world that it happened and that whoever did it is criminal scum who needs to be sent to prison for life. There has never been any proof that the leaks actually hurt wotc's profits, and there is good reason to believe that all the discussion over it could actually bolster their profits when they actually release the set. Especially in this case as it contains dinosaurs, something most people have been wanting.
Sure wotc is going to release a couple of "how could you do this to us, this severely hurts the mtg community and ruins all the plans we made for this set blah blah blah" statements. But seriously? This doesn't hurt them, and it's not going to hurt their sales. It's just aggravates them that they can't string us along for a three week period.
June 17, 2017 12:56 p.m.
kyuuri117,
One thing I do know: It hurts content providers. Why should I stay up until midnight to watch Wedge's exclusive preview when I already know everything about the card? Sure, the ad revenue from my one view isn't much, but it certainly adds up.
June 17, 2017 1:03 p.m.
Sure, maybe this time its fine, maybe there's more enthusiasm. But I certainly would not want this site to contribute to a leak that led to a bad press cycle based on potentially incomplete information and resulted in a decline in pre-release participation. To pretend you have some insight into how it hurts or helps overall is a fantasy (and one that's becoming pretty redundant in this thread......)
June 17, 2017 1:08 p.m. Edited.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #23
I always just check MythicSpoiler, is next-set stuff there okay to discuss? (I didn't know the Ix stuff was leaked but I did think it odd there were more cards for Ixalan than HoD...)
Are all the HoD ones that come out okay to discuss?
Also, I sometimes wonder if some "leaks" are actually clever marketing techniques to drum up interest online.
June 17, 2017 2:09 p.m.
I have another question. Let's say I wanted to include a leaked card into one of my decks. If under the given scenario I made a custom card of a particular card (just so its not blurry) and I black out all key parts of information so that it didn't provide any real information to someone unaware of any of the leaked cards, but would be identifiable to someone who has seen the leaked card, would that be acceptable?
To give a more specific example I would basically black out everything but the card frame, and the only parts left visible to the viewer would be mana cost of the card, card type, (not subtype) and maybe a specific word in the card text that doesn't give much information away just so it can determined by only those that know what the card might be. Specifically if the card mentions "X" I only list "X" or if a card mentions a number like "one" I just list "one" or a rarely-used vague word like "with" that I would only include a single instance of text such as those I provided just to make it identifiable without spoiling anything. And in my deck description I'd merely put, "all censored cards are leaked content" and nothing more. Would something such as that be allowed or will leaking any card regardless of how heavily censored they are be punished all the same?
June 17, 2017 4:18 p.m.
Turn off card validation and enter whatever card name you want
June 17, 2017 4:44 p.m.
@yeaGO, I've never heard of card validation. Could you explain to me what it is or link me to a page that details everything about it? Thank you.
June 17, 2017 4:54 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #28
I understand the importance of not posting pics and links but I don't really understand censoring people's ability to talk about things.
I just don't see a difference between unofficial spoilers and well done custom cards. I.e. "It's not confirmed but this would be cool or that would be cool"
I for one have gained a huge amount of hype for Ixalan since the leaks. I feel like it's refreshing and it looks amazing but again, nothing was confirmed so it's meh if things change.
June 17, 2017 5:22 p.m.
Nobody has been censored from talking about anything, and no amount of clarification seems to be able to dispel this belief.
June 17, 2017 5:29 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #30
"and do not participate in discussions on this site that include such leaks."
This quote from the original post is the main source of that feeling. It feels to me as if I would be punished for talking about a leaked card, especially when the name of this thread is "leaks = ban". It may have not been your intention to make it feel like discussion was off limits but that's the prevailing feeling I've seen so far.
June 17, 2017 8:49 p.m.
yeah, as in, if someone leaks something report the leak immediately.
several attempts have been made to convey that its okay to discuss the content as normal. maybe its just a failing of the english language or something, but we're stuck in a paradox where I can explicitly say "you are free to discuss whatever you like. just don't leak anything." and people keep showing up and saying, "why can't we talk about the leak!!"
June 17, 2017 8:57 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #32
Well, "discussion" typically means talking about stuff so by saying "do not participate in discussions" people may be of the mind that they are not allowed to talk about the leaks at all. Most people have a hard time reading down into a thread so seeing just the original post might plant the thought in their heads.
Possibly condense it down to "don't post links and/or text from unofficially leaked cards" but hey, I'm just a user on your site ;) (No snark just respect)
June 17, 2017 9:08 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #34
Hope so, glad to know I can still be hyped about Pirates!
June 17, 2017 9:18 p.m.
My two cents.
I run a message board where I pay to keep it open, and do all the work behind the schemes.
Custom avatars, deregistering troll accounts, archiving threads, things like that.
It has rules set out.
Due to fact that I, and the management team, are doing all the work WE get to decide what the rules are.
If we "took a poll" every time people didn't like those rules, we'd spend all of our time updating the bloody things.
I love this site. It's an invaluable resource for setting up, tweaking, and playtesting decks.
If you don't want to abide by its rules then don't use it.
It's not a democracy, because you CAN use it for no cost. Someone else pays so you can do that, and make sure it keeps working.
Oh and thanks yeaGO and Epochalyptik for keeping this place running.
July 21, 2017 11:34 a.m.
I understand not allowing us to post pictures but if we want to discuss about these leaks then we can discuss them
August 5, 2017 6:24 a.m.
Stumbled across this out of nowhere. It might seem a few months late but I would also like to thank the site admins for allowing me to use TappedOut for free.
October 16, 2017 1:30 p.m.
stensiagamekeeper says... #39
So despite being over a year since the last comment I have a question that relates to this topic.
If a hypothetical individual hypothetically wanted to rant about a hypothetical green enchantment how would this person (definitely not me) know whether it had been officially leaked. Is this the site I sh- I mean this other person should check first? https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/ravnica-allegiance/cards?rna-alt-productblock Also, is this rule even still in place for non-entire-set-leaked sets.
January 4, 2019 4:58 a.m.
The MTG community has not had any major leaks since Ixalan incident. The basic things to adhere to are described:
"So, in summary, it's fine to:
•Notify people of a leak
•Discuss the potential ramifications of the leak
•Discuss themes and/or make vague statements about leakss (e.g. X creature is really good, could warp standard format, etc.)
What you can't do:
•Post links to or photos of leaks (or tell people where specifically to find them).
•Quote card text or strongly imply it (e.g. in detailed card analysis)"
The official card gallery is a very good indicator of what is spoiled, though it is updated once a day, so there is a period where a card is spoiled in an article on a site, but the gallery is updated with it the next day.
Spoilers are two weeks meticously planned out by WOTC to gradually introduce the set and provide content for various sites, etc. Messing with it messes with the work of a team of people who handle that.
However, in official spoiler season (2-3 weeks prior to prerelease) for the set, there is really not damage a leak can do. Compare that to Ixalan, where cards were leaked half a year prior to release.
TLDR: If it is a Ravnica Allegiance card, it probably be a non-event, but it is best to wait for the official spoiler still. If it is something else, do not do it.
January 4, 2019 5:45 a.m.
stensiagamekeeper,
I use Scryfall as my source for officially spoiled cards.
They put new images up very fast, they always mention where they got the images (so we know they've been officially spoiled), and they have excellent image quality.
Not to mention they have hilarious translations for the foreign cards. Panic! At the Disco, anyone? :-D
January 4, 2019 10:22 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #43
Does this mean that we cannot discuss the cards from Theros: Beyond Death that were leaked?
November 24, 2019 10:51 p.m.
You can speak about them very generally but please do not share detailed descriptions or links to leaked content
November 24, 2019 10:57 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #45
yeaGO, someone else may already have asked this, but would you please explain how leaks are bad for this game?
November 28, 2019 9:39 a.m.
DemonDragonJ leaks allow people to playtest with cards before they actually come out so they have an edge potentially. Also as far as I know wizards kind of just let's sights like this and edhrec.com go as long as they dont break any rules. So its worth just waiting a few weeks to talk about the cards rather then take a chance at upsetting notc
November 28, 2019 11:16 a.m.
Its about the only thing that wizards becomes litigious about in recent years. I don't know how to really measure the damage leaks do. Its a pretty broad topic. T/O draws a broad line when it comes to leaked content because the questions never really seem to end from people who are interested in discussing them...but at some point discussion seems to become dissemination which causes unnecessary drama. T/O just isn't the best place to have those discussions.
sylvannos says... #1
The other issue of unofficial leaks is a type of "insider trading" that goes on at higher levels. If SCG gets a complete set leak months ahead of everyone else? You bet your fucking balls they're going to use that information to manipulate the secondary market. They're going to do buyouts on cards no one else would have thought of. Or, remove parts of their stock to float those cards to sell later at a higher profit, rather than having some other person buy those cards from them and sell back at a later date.
Then, there's the issue of what happens at the Pro Tour level. I forget which set (might have been OGW or NPH? Both? Not sure), but the entire set was spoiled to a small group of players. Those players then made proxies and began playtesting the new format months ahead of everyone else. This means they had more time to solve the format, figure out the metagame, and fine tune archetypes. This is straight-up cheating, IMO.
So with these new leaks, who knows who has what and in what quantities. While some of the cards have been leaked to the public, for all we know ChannelFireball has the entire spoiler and is out scalping Ebay and TCG Player at this very moment. Or LSV is rubbing his hands together as he begins designing the next Pro Tour winning deck, almost a year ahead of everyone else.
I'm ranting at this point. Tl;dr--Leaks are bad. Listen to the management here on TappedOut.
June 16, 2017 5:19 p.m.