M16 Announced! It's called Magic: Origins
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Feb. 8, 2015, 1:10 p.m. by slovakattack
Interesting, eh?
GhostChieftain says... #3
Ok, yes, they are born with it. I meant the moment they ignite it or what have you.
February 9, 2015 11:14 a.m.
shinobigarth says... #4
they are born with it but it only ignites at a certain time, like when something traumatic happens mostly. except apparently Jace's ignited without him even knowing and then an old mage he was talking to told him.
February 9, 2015 2:22 p.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #5
Garruk's ignited when he was being chased by this mob, I think. Some planeswalker lore will be nice actually, its all rather interesting.
February 9, 2015 2:24 p.m.
LordoftheReal says... #6
Let's prepare for an appearance by a one miss Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
February 9, 2015 2:30 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #8
what would you like to know in particular, awesomeguy37? most of the info can be found at the wiki page for each walker (a simple google search will do)
February 9, 2015 3:03 p.m.
CastleSiege says... #9
I have a three-day pass to PAX East so I'll be sure to post info about the Magic panel here for those who miss the live stream.
February 9, 2015 3:21 p.m.
Currently reading through the comments (not finished), and I don't really know much of the backstory of these walkers, just putting that out up front. That said, while people have speculated that we are going to be getting legendary creature versions of the walkers, does anyone think we might get a couple of new revealed walkers? Like, some of the older walkers showing Jace and crew some obscure ritual to become a walker because the older ones are tired and want to retire or something. I dunno, just putting it out there.
February 9, 2015 4:12 p.m.
I really hope they are NOT level up creatures or double sided. While it's cool thematically, in practice they rarely are any good, even in standard. Wizards can't afford to disappoint people with this release and making the walkers with some unplayable mechanic as creatures would just be a sad way to end the core sets.
February 9, 2015 4:18 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #12
I doubt it, kyuuri117. Gideon Jura is the only one to my knowledge to have had a mentor that was a planeswalker. Jace Beleren was known to be a planeswalker by pretty much everyone else except for him for a couple years, but I don't think anyone he knew was a planeswalker. I expect the new mechanic to be related to the legendary creature version of the walkers and having their spark ignite
February 9, 2015 4:26 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas Yea, after reading through all of the comments I realized that some of them ignited the spark with no help from anyone. Haven't really read any of the lore. And I hope the new mechanic is a trigger of some sort, not a level up system. Would really be disappointing, at least for me.
Not only would the card have to be aggressively costed, it would have to have really pushed abilities, and then be good as a walker. Considering it's rare that wizards does any of that for a card with only one of those requirements, I feel like it would make all of them near unplayable.
February 9, 2015 4:30 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #14
Maybe it will be a triggered ability, something like "When a condition is met (creature dying, take damage, etc), you may pay X. If you do, flip this card." Then the flip side is a planeswalker.
February 9, 2015 4:43 p.m.
The only way I see that working is if the planeswalker costs 3-6 mana to cast normally and the legendary creature cost's 1-3 to cast. But at that point, it's probably too good to print.
February 9, 2015 4:46 p.m.
elpokitolama says... #17
New mechanic... Sounds interesting. The ones that appeared recently in standard weren't that bad after all. Let's hope that M16 will make it to the eternals formats! :'D
Jace was my favorite planeswalker before it was mainstream, I hope that he's gonna kick some asses down there!
Storm Crow in standard maybe? Or is it already part of the mythic set in MM2?
February 9, 2015 4:51 p.m.
LordoftheReal says... #18
I believe they worded the leveling up vibe mechanics as "the PLAYER is leveling up", so I think there may be some "you are treated as a planeswalker" shenanigans.
February 9, 2015 5:49 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #19
Oh, even better idea. How about the other new mechanic is actually an old one, namely assembling contraptions a la Steamflogger Boss?
February 9, 2015 5:55 p.m.
I WANT ALL DA CARDS IN THIS SET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Especially Chandra and Gideon..
February 9, 2015 6:24 p.m.
Come on wizards, go out with a big bang on the last core set, drop the reserve list and print some magical dreams for us all.
February 9, 2015 9:56 p.m.
Freeble mmm first time i've heard anyone say that they were looking forward to a Gideon release lol.
February 9, 2015 10:08 p.m.
Zuckfat Mark Rosewater has stated, with absolute certainty, that they will never be dropping the reserve list. So, unfortunately or fortunately from where you stand on the matter, that is the case. End of story. And anyway, at this point, dropping the reserve list could very well cause harm that the game could not come back from. A lot of the professions and leaders in the MTG community have legacy and vintage decks, and they and the rest of us who have some of them treat these cards the same way you treat a long term stock. Stopping the reserve list would crash the MTG market. No one would ever be able to trust WotC word anymore, collectors would liquidate their supplies, game stores would liquidate, and that would be that. No more mtg.
February 9, 2015 10:12 p.m.
jandrobard says... #27
All this talk on flip card PWs has got me thinking...
Your Legendary creature is evolving!
card flashes colors
Your legendary creature has evolved into a planeswalker!
February 9, 2015 11:59 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #28
they won't be flip cards and i really don't see them being transform cards either. i see them being tutors, probably just searching for the base form, "search your library for a card named Jace Beleren..." rather than "search your library for a Jace card..." to avoid getting the most powerful versions.
February 10, 2015 1:02 a.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #30
My favorite planeswalker is liliana so I would quite like to see her full storyline CommanderOfBolas.
February 10, 2015 1:36 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #31
Well, she has a lot of info. here is one of the better sources of information on her. if you don't want to read it all, id be more than happy to summarize it for you, but the link is more interesting than me
February 10, 2015 1:43 a.m.
shinobigarth, imagine opening a booster pack and reaching the rare slot only to find half a mythic, with the flavor text "find the other half". It would pretty much be a "screw you" to anyone who buys a booster pack. They can get away with it with cards like Renowned Weaponsmith and Dragon's Herald because those particular cards are uncommons, but rares? They would never do something like that.
February 10, 2015 1:55 a.m.
shinobigarth says... #34
MisterMayhem not if its an ability on the creature version of the walker, which also does something else to help you out. thats the whole point of this thing is having cards represent the walker BEFORE their spark ignites and having them be able to tutor for their (base) walker card is extremely flavorful. Lili was a healer therefore she would be a white legendary with some sort of life gain, Chandra could use fire magic before her spark ignited so thats easy, Jace knew mind magic from a young age, etc.
February 10, 2015 2:41 a.m.
Hey, hey, hey. Let's not go making Lili useless before the set even has any cards revealed. Instead of representing healing by gaining life, let's pretend wizards likes us and chooses to represent healing by "exiling the illness".
February 10, 2015 2:45 a.m.
Liliana of the habit, www
Legendary creature- human nun
3/4 life link
When "" enters the battlefield search for a card, from your hand or library, named Liliana ' s brother and put it in the graveyard.
bb: exile a creature from your graveyard, put a 2/2 zombie token with death touch on the battlefield.
February 10, 2015 4:04 a.m.
I'm so excited for this set! I haven't had much luck with the KTK/FRF block so far, because I just can't seem to put a good tri-color deck together. Most of the best cards in this block are tri-color. Hopefully Origins will be more focused on dual-colors and single-colors like other core sets.Also, still can't believe that they chose Gideon and Nissa over Ajani and Garruk. I do see how we haven't learned a lot about them, but Ajani is my favorite planeswalker.
February 10, 2015 6:40 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #39
As a huge lore enthusiast, I am flipping the fuck out right now. I can't wait.
February 10, 2015 1:29 p.m.
Nomeacuerdo says... #40
I see flip cards Kamigawa style.
As my favorite planeswalker is Nicol Bolas, I am not soooo excited for the chosen Planeswalkers. In the other hand, I am looking forward for more Liliana's cosplays :P
February 10, 2015 2:09 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #41
I like how this core set
- is going to have less reprints than any other core set before
- is going to have new mechanics
- is going to have a unique flavor theme
- is not going to be called M16 and is in fact going to have a unique set symbol
So... It's not actually going to be a core set?
I mean, I don't really care that the core set is going to be gone before we were told it would, but I just find it funny that this is being marketed as a core set and not as a regular set with a few more reprints than usual :)
February 10, 2015 2:12 p.m.
TheRedMage I think the only way it's going to resemble a core set is in the length it stays in the format. They needed to do the format change around the time of a core set release or it would mess up the rotations.
Anyway, i'm glad that they have realized that we magic players are dumbasses for the most part and can actually read and understand mechanics haha. Happy enough to go out with an (presumably) awesome set.
February 10, 2015 2:17 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #43
Sure, but it wouldn't be the only time that they have published a regular non-core set to fulfill a similar function without being part of the block structure. They did that with Coldsnap for example (and we can argue whether that was a success or not, but if it wasn't, I suspect that has a lot to do with the set being a small set and not a lot with it not being in a block).
The Core Set is supposed to be a gateway for new players to be introduced to the game in an environment that is more friendly to them - and that requires that there isn't too much going on. If that's not the case with this set, then it's not going to fulfill the one function that makes a Core Set different than a regular set and saying it is a Core Set is just not true.
Granted, I agree that trying to teach new player with a standard-legal set that needs enough complexity to make for interesting drafts on the pro-tour stage might not be the best way to do so, but that conflict is exactly why Core Sets are going away in the first place.
I am just a bit worried for the players that are going to purchase "core set" product in order to teach their friends how to play and end up putting on a learner's plate more that they can handle. But I am sure wizards have thought of that. We'll see I guess.
February 10, 2015 2:35 p.m.
Core sets weren't a good entrance for new players anyway because they always had old returning mechanics. They were also disjointed from a lore perspective and often contained awful cards. They were generally all around bad for new players. Not engaging from a flavour perspective. Not that much easier to grasp. Poor in terms of value.
February 10, 2015 2:44 p.m.
Squisherton says... #45
I'm calling it! Dual color core planeswalkers. i.e. W/B Lilliana, R/W Gideon. Also I believe we will get Legendary creature versions of planeswalkers before the "ignited the spark". What I'm most excited about, that was revealed, is that the cards will reflect more of a story line! REALLY anxious to see it!
February 10, 2015 2:55 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #46
But the old returning mechanic was just a compromise to make the set more interesting to existing players, right? That's just part of the original sin of the Core Set - needs to have enough going on that it's interesting to existing players, but not too much that it's too difficult for the new ones. Ultimately Wizards acknowledged that striking a good balance there every time was too much of a problem and decided to stop producing Core Sets going forward. Which - don't get me wrong - is an idea I agree with.
I disagree that Core Sets are not engaging from a flavor perspective for newer players too. In fact, I think that the generic high fantasy setting was a great gateway to getting the gist of the game flavor. It's easier to get into the idea that you are a wizard fighting another wizard than it is to get into the idea that you are a wizard fighting another wizard and also everything is made of metal for whatever reasons and there's these evil creatures you never heard about trying to conquer a planet you also never heard about. Sure, to you or me the idea of tapping a mountain to cast a Shock is not particularly exciting, but to a new player, raining electric death on the enemy probably feels pretty awesome regardless of the world you are on (it did for me at least).
As for the "not much easier to grasp" part, I also disagree. I tried to teach the same person using a Dragon's Maze starter deck and an M14 starter deck and after their first brushes with the former they were kind of ready to give up - things were triggering left and right, and there were a bunch of block mechanics that only appeared on a card or two but still required understanding, on top of all the evergreen stuff like trample and flying and stuff. We switched to M14, and things became much easier to process.
I am not saying that from the point of view of a more enfranchised player your complaints don't make sense. It's just that fulfilling our expectations is not the primary function of Core Sets to begin with.
February 10, 2015 3:08 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #47
Yes, yes, all the things TheRedMage said. So on point.
I started with a core set, too, and while things were by far easier in the old days (Started with Classical Sixth, shortly before the Seventh was released) and even the expansion sets didn't have mechanisms as complex as today can get - at least I remember so, maybe I just didn't understand. I was just too stunned when I first casted my first Ogre Warrior I was pretty certain that thing was over. Terror was the most evil spell I could imagine and I cringed of laughter when I pulled a Dead Ringers from a pack shortly after I decided I want to play Black.
Core Sets were boring for us "old" players, but just the simplicty within it was argument enough for me to keep them. I like the new system, but I'm uncertain in all the same ways. I expect to be the first set of a block to generally become a bit less complex. We'll see, but I really feel Origins strikes a nerve very well.
February 10, 2015 3:38 p.m.
I found that using the Duel Decks is a great way to teach people how to play. They are engaging, usually, and pretty fairly balanced. They also come with instructions on what mechanic does what and how to play the game, so the new player has something to look at while learning.
February 10, 2015 3:44 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #49
Tried that, but Duel Decks tend to still have a lot going on. I tried teaching a friend using Jace vs Vraska and immediately gave up when they showed me an Errant Ephemeron and asked me how Suspend works.
It's possible other DDs are more basic, but I suspect they are more of a thing you can use to take a player that knows the rules already and teach them strategy than a good tool to teach the rules.
February 10, 2015 3:50 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #50
I am going to teach a friend of mine the game fairly soon and I'm currently about to build myself four "Into-Decks" myself. So far, the hardest mechanism I've picked is +1/+1 counters.
You sometimes underestimate what basic knowledge we already have. We get the stack, we understand how instant and sorcery speed differs. We understand what exiling and destroying means and can differ between the phases. We realize when attacking can't work out, why Deathtouch and First Strike are something that's a hundred times better than any basic 7/7 will ever be and realize that our opponent can have combat tricks. We even, given we play standard, know which tricks are currently in the format and can derive from the opponent's mana base if it's a good point to play a very important enchantment.
It's easy to underestimate what a immense knowledge is required to play this game, even at a mediocre level.
Now, what I found most frustrating about learning League of Legends (which I dropped, by the way) was seeing my friends do all that stuff absolutely intuitively and I struggled even at the most basic concept. We're going entirely off-topic here, but I loved how the Core Sets offered a kind-of turtorial level that, when used by a newbie and a more experienced player, would still yield results in which the Newbie might win, simply because the experienced player's skills were not that required.
I can imagine it as a full horror trip for new players being thrown into a world where all sets are like KTK/FRF. Here, have: BOLSTER MORPH PROWESS OUTLAST KHANS DRAGONS MULTICOLOR DELVE RAID DASH FUCKYOUSERIOUSLY, A PACK OF FRIES WITH FEROCIOUS KETCHUP TO GO ALONG WITH IT and now try to keep your shit together while you figure out again why you can't enchantment your opponent!
I'm a fan of core sets. I sometimes, not all the times, enjoy simplicity.
GhostChieftain says... #1
I am hoping to see some cards that depict each walker at the moment of their spark. I can only imagine gaining your spark is really painful so the art has to be super cool.
February 9, 2015 10:58 a.m.