Magic Origins SPOILERS!
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 8, 2015, 1:03 a.m. by JWiley129
MaRo's article got spoiled early, so we have some SPICY Previews with "new" mechanics!
TL;DR: Menace is replacing Intimidate & Landwalk, Prowess is now evergreen primary in Blue secondary in Red and maybe tertiary in White, and Protection is now deciduous used only as necessary.
Magic Origins Card Image Gallery
Gideon's +2 is good for "removal" in those colors. Basically, you make it attack him, and then you can block it to kill it. It's a very situational ability, so they gave him his AMAZING +1 to compensate. And then his 0 is, of course, gud.
This will see Modern play somewhere, mark my words.
June 16, 2015 8:44 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #4
So will R/W aggro now be a thing? The only question I have is Raise the Alarm getting a reprint in Origins? If so turn 3 PW here we go! (With Dragon Fodder being the alternative less good option)
June 16, 2015 8:48 p.m.
Gideon?
Gideon!
GIDEON!!!!!
(er, Kytheon is pretty good too.)
June 16, 2015 8:51 p.m.
Raise the Alarm has gotten a LOT of reprints recently. M15, MM2, the Elspeth vs Kiora DD. I think WotC likes this card, and may reprint it yet again lol
June 16, 2015 8:52 p.m.
I'm excited. Could Boros 1-drop Aggro be a thing? I see it.
June 16, 2015 8:53 p.m.
Evaluating the flip conditions of Magic Origins flip-walkers
I will mainly talk about them in Standard, but the discussion can extend to other Constructed formats.
Gideon
Attacking with 3 creatures during a combat isn't that hard, the difficult part will be ensuring he's alive. Sure there is the dream of T1 Gideon, T2 Raise the Alarm, T3 attack leaving up Indestructible, but that's not super likely. Being a 2/1 hurts a bit, since every piece of removal will kill him. Plus he dies to all the popular anti-aggro cards. I'd say you will flip Gideon about 50% of the time, given good draws and favorable board-states.
Jace
Jace is probably the easiest to flip, especially in older formats. In the decks you will play Jace, you're likely to get 2-3 cards in your GY incidentally, not including fetchlands. He'll probably flip most often on T4-5 in Standard, and even earlier in older formats. Now, Jace has the same problem of the others, dieing too easily to common removal, but he'll probably flip 40-50% of the time due to color considerations.
Liliana
Liliana has one of the most obscure flip conditions, but with the right cards you can flip her a good percentage of the time. Obviously she synergizes well with Exploit, but you'll have to play around some removal. He'll likely flip 40% of the time, because your opponent likely won't want her to flip so she can eat your opponent's hand.
Chandra
Chandra's flip condition requires the most work, but in a mono-red deck it will be worth it. She'll get much better if Shock or (god forbid) Lightning Bolt gets reprinted. She will likely not flip too often, like 30% of the time. But as a Goblin Fireslinger, she'll do some work.
Nissa
Nissa's flip condition is the "easiest" in the sense all you have to do is play a land, which she grabs you. The difficult part is actually getting to 7 lands. She'll probably flip 30-40% of the time, but you can definitely increase those odds by playing the right deck and around the right cards.
June 16, 2015 8:54 p.m.
Gideon and liliana could bring Mardu tokens to tier 1. Gideon, Lilliana, sorin, butcher, fodder, outburst, raise. I also like the flip walkers in a CoCo deck, especially liliana and Merciless Executioner in CoCo.
June 16, 2015 9:02 p.m.
Chadtherest00 says... #12
Dear god lol I think a planes walker deck is possible in modern now that I saw Gideon...
June 16, 2015 9:03 p.m.
Gideon is not good in a Super Friends deck though. He is much better in a White-Weenie aggro deck so you can flip him ASAP. A 1-mana 2/1 is not what a Super Friends deck wants. It wants 1 mana cantrips, Wrath of God, and ways of keeping creatures off the board.
June 16, 2015 9:05 p.m.
Imo the only good walkers Gideon works with are the lili flipper because she can attack and flip Gideon, and sorin solemn visitors because he supports a go wide strategy. But you can't overload on any of them, or else they are all much weaker.
June 16, 2015 9:08 p.m.
HOLY CRAP I WANT GIDEON NOW WHY DO I NOT HAVE A FOIL PLAYSET IN MY HAND ATM I WANT IT SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BAD
June 16, 2015 9:34 p.m.
Gideon looks really good....oh, hi Heliod. I missed you, you thick-headed brute (Check the background in Kytheon's art, you'll see Heliod, God of the Sun among the clouds.
This might make me build mono-white. It might. Now THAT is a worthy EDH general for White.
June 16, 2015 9:49 p.m.
NoviceMagician says... #20
Wow, I love the new Gideon, and only 1 CMC? That's awesome!
Looks like I know how to finally get involved into TL.....
;)
June 16, 2015 9:57 p.m.
his +2 is kind of like Gideon Jura's ability. Indestructible and untap is great! Untap a creature that attacked and you have an indestructible blocker! getting a 4/4 that cant be killed is just down right broken. 2/1 for 1 that gets indestructible? sign me up!
W/R aggro might be a thing!
T1: Battlefield Forge, Gideon
T2: Mountain, 2 Monastery Swiftspears, attack with all 3, flip gideon. Turn 2 planeswalker!
June 16, 2015 10:16 p.m.
will he see modern Play? What do you guys think? I think he might see some in white weenie and soldier decks. In edh and tiny leaders he will be played a ton!
June 16, 2015 10:18 p.m.
Chadtherest00 says... #23
Moonmist isn't gonna be able to flip them walkers... O well I hope we get a card that flips them as that's the right thing to do for the game design.....
June 16, 2015 10:25 p.m.
NoviceMagician says... #24
Oh he'll definitely be run in Modern. Modern players have a way of finding uses for every card.
He is also going to be my excuse to start actually playing TL.
June 16, 2015 10:26 p.m.
I think a Moonmist like card would be bad game design. Sure you can have the cards like Chandra's Ignition that essentially auto-flip Chandra. But I don't want to see a general use card like that for all five.
June 16, 2015 10:28 p.m.
NoviceMagician - Because Planeswalkers get their loyalty counters as an enters the battlefield ability. Moonmist just transforms them, so Kytheon would flip into Gideon with 0 loyalty counters and immediately be put into the GY.
June 16, 2015 10:32 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #28
anyone else think gideon is much better unflipped?
June 16, 2015 10:33 p.m.
Probably not. A 4/4 indestructible is better than a 2/1 pay 2W to make indestructible. But the fact that Gideon isn't always a creature is kinda hindering. He's still ridiculous, though.
June 16, 2015 10:36 p.m.
NoviceMagician says... #30
Oh wow, guess I'm really showing my casual roots. Thanks for the info JWiley129! :)
June 16, 2015 10:50 p.m.
NoviceMagician - That's fine, it's a weird interaction that you definitely don't want to get wrong.
June 16, 2015 10:52 p.m.
Chadtherest00 says... #32
Honestly it would help create a new deck type if that card did ever happen. I ain't holding my breath thou I know how much tcg's have let me down over the years...
June 16, 2015 10:59 p.m.
Chadtherest00 says... #33
Yeah too bad transforming isn't considered summoning even thou your basically putting a new card into play... Shit I wanna know if there's a tcg out there that doesn't have such unfair rulings. Oppressive to say the least
June 16, 2015 11 p.m.
NoviceMagician says... #34
Thanks again.
I can't wait to run Gideon in my W/U. That's sure to be fun. Looks like I have a new wincon.
June 16, 2015 11:04 p.m.
Guys, I'd like to propose an idea. Just thinking here, but hear me out.
Modern format.
, possibly either 
or 
.
4 Collected Company, 4 AEther Vial.
Combinations of...
New Gideon, New Liliana, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit, Saffi Eriksdotter, Anafenza, the Foremost, Jenara, Asura of War, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, Teysa, Orzhov Scion, Varolz, the Scar-Striped, and others I may have forgotten about.
Finally, depending on colors...
Noble Hierarch, Path to Exile, and other various support spells.
When they format the newer cards into the site I'll make a decklist, probably Bant. Tell me what you guys think, I'm just musing here.
June 17, 2015 12:01 a.m.
Chadtherest00 says... #37
Ha those are actually some very great finds for coco techs. Thanks for sharing JDMCRIB
June 17, 2015 12:11 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #38
I could very happily see having two Gideons (one flipped, one unflipped) on the board at once. Only one of the five where that'd actually be a reasonable option.
June 17, 2015 12:18 a.m.
I'm unsure about the new Lili in CoCo. She could work in a Sultai brew with exploitstuffs, like Silumgar Sorcerer and Sidisi, Undead Vizier. Turn ur CoCos into super utility. Hey, that Nissa might work there too, but I don't know about that one.
June 17, 2015 12:18 a.m.
I'm not even sure about in the deck, it was just a consideration. But would the new Nissa be good here at all? I don't plan on running many lands with the low curve.
June 17, 2015 12:20 a.m.
I'm talking about Standard, sry.
But about ur deck, the Nissa probably won't have any use after you can cast CoCo.
June 17, 2015 12:22 a.m.
New Gideon is so good! I want this more than I have ever wanted Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. And yes I want a foil Playset!
Question, if a flip card like Huntmaster of the Fells Flip is foil are both sides foil?
You know I was 100% sure that the only cards I would buy from Origins is 1x Liliana. Now I know I need 4x Foil Gideon and my wallet is not happy lol.
June 17, 2015 1:03 a.m.
Damn you WotC! You know just what kinds of shinnies I like the most!
June 17, 2015 2:29 a.m.
The new gideon seems nice at a first glance, but its really a legendary 2/1 for 1, that can be a 4/4 that cant block if you invest another 3 mana (needed for him to survive the attack). Figure of destiny and that new guy thats kinda like FoD are both much better..
June 17, 2015 5:32 a.m.
I remember the old days, when Savannah Lions was king. Now, it pales in comparison, sadly. Gideon is love, Gideon is life me thinks.
He will be the defining 1-drop of standard. Abzan aggro and Boros aggro will love him in the current setup of standard.
June 17, 2015 5:40 a.m.
wow seeing as this gideon will be so op in constructed, he could easily win matches in limited! All you need are 2 other creatures, and they almost lose if you're able to transform him.
June 17, 2015 7:16 a.m.
ok now a question...
with the currently seen spoilers, do you think you can possibly predict the most popular deck colors/combos in limited?
OtakulordAndrew says... #1
That Gideon is great deffinitely playable in standard white aggro probbably playable in modern as well. I guess wizards wanted to create an awesome gideon card as he is going to be a central character in Battle for Zendikar.
June 16, 2015 8:42 p.m.