Magic Origins SPOILERS!
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 8, 2015, 1:03 a.m. by JWiley129
MaRo's article got spoiled early, so we have some SPICY Previews with "new" mechanics!
TL;DR: Menace is replacing Intimidate & Landwalk, Prowess is now evergreen primary in Blue secondary in Red and maybe tertiary in White, and Protection is now deciduous used only as necessary.
Magic Origins Card Image Gallery
kyuuri117 ~ whoops. Sorry about that. I forgot how to math for a second.
I'm not saying that honorable hierarch is amazing. Just that it's far from trash and that I don't think it's being given enough thought before being dismissed
The BoP comparison was a slight oversight. I was just naming mana dorks. Yeah not even close.
I'll concede that HH is a bad mana dork for a ramp deck. BUT it has definite possibilities as a one drop aggro green creature(of which I think there are 0 right now. Apologies if I'm incorrect. Been out of standard for a bit) and that is what it needs to be in. Esspecially when we lose Elvish Mystic in October.
Yeah that's a ways off but unless they reprint it in origins or another one drop dork comes up in BFZ it might be our only option. No clue on that one though
June 23, 2015 10:18 p.m.
I mean, I guess if you are primarily an aggro deck with like, a curve of three, and like 19-20 lands... then it could be useful if you get stuck. I just think it's completely mediocre.
June 23, 2015 10:20 p.m.
kyuuri117 ~ mediocre is better than trash. Lol
I also want to say that it's nice to have a difference of opinion and have someone plead their case with well reasoned logic rather than "you're wrong and stupid and bad at magic" so for that I thank you.
I'm also actually not that great at card evaluations. Like ever. I tend to over estimate how good a card is a fair amount of the time so there's that. And have a bad habit of thinking about cards from a "timmy" angle. I suck at standard deck building when it comes to homebrewing but toss me in a draft and I wreck a large percentage of them. I just don't get it. Lol
June 23, 2015 10:26 p.m.
Player3.14 says... #5
I guess I'll toss my two cents in about the Honored Heiarch discission.
I think Honored Heirarch is a niche card. It's meant exclusively for beatdown or a faster type of midrange deck. It may also be strong when backed up with a lot of removal to clear the way. When used outside of these rather narrow parameters, I don't think it'll perform as well as an Elvish Mystic. Swining with it early, then using it on turn three or four for a larger creature such as a Siege Rhino or Stormbreath Dragon is how it's best used in my oppinion.
June 23, 2015 10:53 p.m.
I actually think that like, it's best spot is probably in a Bant or Bug control shell.
You play it early, great, it will become a 2/2 that can make mana to pay for your counter/kill spells. You get it late? Whatever, it's prob on chump block duty, or waiting to be played until you clear the board, at which point it goes back to being a 2/2 beater that produces mana... or eats a kill spell, which is fine.
When I think about it like that, I actually start to like the thing.
June 23, 2015 10:57 p.m.
Player3.14 says... #7
Actually, that might just work too, at least in Standard. That's actually a really good idea.
In any case, someone always finds a use for cheap fixing/ramp creatures. At best it could be a standard staple; at worst it could be a fringe playable card.
June 23, 2015 11:17 p.m.
NoviceMagician says... #10
I really like that card. I definitely see some play with that in Limited and Standard. It'll probably get some play in modern, but there are just so many other blue 4 drops or lower, that it won't shine as much in other formats. I don't play EDH, so I don't know if it'll play in that, though I would think it would. But like I said, I'm not really an EDH player.
June 24, 2015 12:43 a.m.
wakawakawaka says... #11
dont think it'll see play in modern as Goblin Electromancer exists.
standard play certainly is a possibility
June 24, 2015 12:51 a.m.
wakawakawaka - I agree. If it was 
I would think about running it in UR Storm. That said, it doesn't so it won't see play in Modern unless a rogue deck pops up.
June 24, 2015 12:52 a.m.
they didn't nerf Opalescence, they gave a slight downside and a massive upside. Timetwister, they literally cant reprint it (reserve list) so they made a new one with standard in mind. you cant compare that to lightning bolt, if anything its a worse/better flame slash. Losing the move counters ability is sad but at 3cmc and starting at a 1/1 could be worth it, Mana Glutton Hydra could see play in the right deck where Forgotten Ancient wouldn't. Once again, 2 different cards, one is made for beating one is made to help beat, one taps for 3 types of mana the other taps for any.
June 24, 2015 12:58 a.m.
JA14732: You rang?
But yeah, Sanctum is immediately getting tested in Talrand. All value.
June 24, 2015 1:09 a.m.
NoviceMagician says... #16
Oh, they also nerfed Gideon's Lawkeeper into Akroan Jailer which makes me really really sad...
Sorry I keep bringing Lawkeeper back up, I am just really disappointed I didn't get a reprint
June 24, 2015 1:43 a.m. Edited.
logansullivan says... #17
hateindigital add in sphinx's tutelage and you might have a semi decent mill plan
June 24, 2015 1:55 a.m.
I think Day's Undoing could see in play in U/B Control decks. I believe, yes, if you have them in a controlled environment it would be foolish to reset their hand; lets say that I'm out of fuel, and they have 3-4 cards in hand. I'll reset my hand, counter a few of their cards, and I'll have a boardwipe (Crux of Fate and Languish are probably going to be there) in hand. Dig Through Time will still have a strong hold in control, but if you have enough mana for a counter or 2 after Day's Undoing in the late game but no threats or removal this could work.
June 24, 2015 2:38 a.m.
magnetcrocodile says... #19
Sphinx's Tutelage + Day's Undoing
Mill them and put it back together. All the lolz
June 24, 2015 3:08 a.m.
No, days undoing clears the stack, including sphinx triggers..
June 24, 2015 3:18 a.m.
Melek and I love Jace's Sanctum. I am a happy, happy man.
June 24, 2015 5:01 a.m. Edited.
smackjack - are you sure Day's Undoing won't work with Sphinx's Tutelage? It's ability triggers whenever you draw a card. The second part of Day's Undoing effect (end your turn) also uses the stack. In my turn, due to the priority, I can decide if I rather want the Sphinx's effect to resolve first, or the second part of Day's effect, right? If so, it'd work as it's said - I'm drawing first card, Sphinx's Tutelage triggers - you mill 2 cards. I'm drawing second card - the same. After all seven cards are drawn the second part of that card's effect comes to play. Otherwise it would be written as "then draw seven cards AND if it's your turn, end the turn".
June 24, 2015 5:33 a.m.
"In my turn, due to the priority, I can decide if I rather want the Sphinx's effect to resolve first, or the second part of Day's effect, right?"
No. You do not get to choose to resolve only part of an effect and insert another trigger in between first part of an effect and its second part. Nothing can happen during the resolution of a spell or effect, except replacement effects.
If you cast this card and it resolves, nothing else can resolve that turn, not even triggers, since we move directly to the cleanup step.
June 24, 2015 5:42 a.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #27
Yeah, I got exited for a few seconds thinking that Day's Undoing is yet another good card for Nekusar, the Mindrazer decks. Sadly, it isn't.
June 24, 2015 7:23 a.m.
I think this hasn't been talked yet, but waht do you guys thinks about Flameshadow Conjuring? I think it can be a good card, even with it's high CMC, but this card with thing like Impact Tremors + Young Pyromancer can cause alot of damage. For instance, play a Pyromancer, make a copy and then trow a Lightning Bolt, you deal 7 damage, plus 2 if you have an open field.
Also, it's a good card to combine with Alesha and her effect. If you bring back a Avalanche Riders for the grave, pay 
and you have another rider, destroying 2 lands.
What are your thought?
June 24, 2015 7:25 a.m.
Tainted Remedy is the most exciting card for me so far from the set. The Cure legacy deck feat. False Cure was already a very fast combo/aggro deck. Now, it can be more consistent.
One of the cheapest and most fun ways to get into legacy.
June 24, 2015 7:35 a.m.
@Wiktul / smackjack / GeminiSpartanX .... and others.
Day's Undoing does work with Sphinx's Tutelage.
While Day's Undoing is resolving, Sphinx's Tutelage will trigger 7 times. - But triggers which occur during the resolution of another spell or ability do not get put on the stack until after the spell or ability has finished resolving.
As such, after Day's Undoing has finished resolving (everything that was on the stack has already been exiled), during your clean-up step, there will be 7 triggers of Sphinx's Tutelage added to the stack.
The same goes for Nekusar, the Mindrazer triggers, or any other 'draw' triggers.
June 24, 2015 8:26 a.m.
@ Rayenous Nobody has priority during the cleanup step, so no triggers can be put on stack during that step, nor can they resolve.
June 24, 2015 8:29 a.m.
No one has priority... unless a trigger occurs.
713. Ending the Turn
713.2. No player gets priority during this process, so triggered abilities are not put onto the stack. If any triggered abilities have triggered between the spell or ability resolving and the cleanup step ending, those abilities are put onto the stack during the cleanup step, then the active player gets priority and players can cast spells and activate abilities. Then there will be another cleanup step before the turn finally ends. If no triggered abilities have triggered during this process, no player gets priority during the cleanup step. See rule 514, "Cleanup Step."
June 24, 2015 8:32 a.m.
Actually... the more I read that, the less sure I am of what it is saying.
I'm going to wait until Wizards make their usual 'card clarifications' that they do for each new set.
June 24, 2015 8:40 a.m.
713.1b Check state-based effects. No player gets priority, and no triggered abilities are put onto the stack.
The part you quoted refers to antiquated cards (like Necromancy) which trigger specifically during the cleanup step. Those no longer exist and 713.2 has no effect.
June 24, 2015 8:44 a.m.
so its likfe Goblin Electromancer and Prescient Chimera had a baby.
June 24, 2015 8:46 a.m.
also, why is Bounding Krasis put in twice once as Bounding Krasis and once as Bouding Krasis?
June 24, 2015 8:49 a.m.
Hope we will see the lands today, and i really hope they are good :)
June 24, 2015 8:50 a.m.
after yesterday's load of rares/mythics, today ill settle for some commons/uncommons with a mythic or two with them
June 24, 2015 8:51 a.m.
514.3. Normally, no player receives priority during the cleanup step, so no spells can be cast and no abilities can be activated. However, this rule is subject to the following exception:
514.3a At this point, the game checks to see if any state-based actions would be performed and/or any triggered abilities are waiting to be put onto the stack (including those that trigger at the beginning of the next cleanup step). If so, those state-based actions are performed, then those triggered abilities are put on the stack, then the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities. Once the stack is empty and all players pass in succession, another cleanup step begins.
June 24, 2015 8:51 a.m.
i need some good non basics either in origins or BFZ, since Mana Confluence, scry lands, pain lands, and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth are rotating out with BFZ
June 24, 2015 8:52 a.m.
What lands do you guys think we'll see, if any at all? With the amount of "old cards brought back but more balanced," could we see the ABUR duals with a specific drawback? Or is that woo wishful?
June 24, 2015 8:54 a.m.
so what's that mean pskinn01? I literally have no idea how this would work
June 24, 2015 8:54 a.m.
also, not sure if anyone's said this yet, but mtgsalvation has jace's actual artwork.
June 24, 2015 8:56 a.m.
@ pskinn01
Still not true. This rule affects only stuff that will trigger because of entering into cleanup and nothing else. Every other trigger never hits the stack. Trust me, I would love to be wrong about this, but there is no way.
June 24, 2015 8:58 a.m.
and another thing. I think I must have been away when they spoiled hixus' power and toughness. What do we think about him being a 4/4?
wakawakawaka says... #1
i dont think honored hierarch will see any play in t1/t2/any legitimately competitive standard deck, much less modern or legacy. Why? because its both a bad aggro creature and a bad mana dork in a competitive environment.
you want to play a 4 drop t3? play caryatid or rattleclaw. you want to play a 3 drop turn 2? play mystic.
honored hierarch really isn't too bad in limited and in a reasonably casual environment it's actually quite good.
June 23, 2015 10:09 p.m.