Magic Origins SPOILERS!
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 8, 2015, 1:03 a.m. by JWiley129
MaRo's article got spoiled early, so we have some SPICY Previews with "new" mechanics!
TL;DR: Menace is replacing Intimidate & Landwalk, Prowess is now evergreen primary in Blue secondary in Red and maybe tertiary in White, and Protection is now deciduous used only as necessary.
Magic Origins Card Image Gallery
Prowess is an AWFUL ability for Blue. Especially considering that wizards is completely unwilling to print decent cantrips for fear of 'ruining' modern.
Also the Chandra Flipwalker has been leaked but is still unconfirmed if anyone is interested in talking about that. 
So far these commons all seem like junk for the most part. Even the rares/mythics don't look that great. I'll wait for more spoiler's though. Cant have a set of 300+ cards without some junk.
June 9, 2015 10:15 p.m.
Regarding Chandra (if this is her final version.)
You end up dealing 9dmg with her before you can get the ultimate. Then after it's used you've dealt 15dmg, and as soon as you end they'll have taken 18. So basically if you ult her your opponent has probably already lost a few turns ago. It seems like it would be a good card in EDH but not as much in competitive. I'm also not a fan of the -2 really.
June 9, 2015 10:23 p.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #5
I see you weren't around for the KTK standard season where almost every deck was Jeskai Ascendancy combo. Also, that Chandra looks like complete crap. Can't wizards print a decent mono red planeswalker? I like the cost to flip it, but the walker side is shit.
June 9, 2015 10:24 p.m.
Man, lili was terrible and so is chandra. Great flavor and whatever, but terrible magic cards.
June 9, 2015 10:24 p.m.
AwesomeName says... #7
@Lokotor, there have only been 2 mythics so far, three if you count Chandra, and only a few rares, so I wouldn't say that the whole set is garbage already. And how come you think prowess is awful? It's something that blue has always needed.
About the Chandra, I hope that it is fake, but it will probably end up being real. I really like the design of the creature side, but the planeswalker side is so boring. Damage, damage, and more damage? Really Wizards? Also, the Chandra walker art isn't that great in my opinion...
June 9, 2015 10:25 p.m. Edited.
Meh, lili and chandra were probably just made for Tiny Leaders tbh
June 9, 2015 10:26 p.m.
Wizards does dedicate some cards each set to people who like big splashy effects, and some cards each set to EDH. Tiny Leaders isn't big enough to warrant any special treatment though. All the walkers this set are humans/elves, which generally don't cost more than 3 cmc anyway. So while they should all fit in tiny leaders, they definitely weren't made that way just for tiny leaders.
June 9, 2015 10:28 p.m.
vishnarg - There is no way they knew about TL by the time they were designing these cards based on the fact that TL became popular THIS year.
Lokotor - That Chandra is a confirmed fake. Prowess is a fun ability that plays into Blue's "spells matter" theme. And we've seen less than 20 cards, don't be so hasty to judge an entire set off of <20 cards.
June 9, 2015 10:28 p.m.
@MAGESTIC_LLAMA I am aware that it is possible to use prowess in blue, but my point is that evaluating it only from a mono colored perspective it's not a good ability for blue. if it is an evergreen ability in a color then that color should be able to use it on it's own without needing support from another color. Blue is not an aggressive color and doesn't have the support it needs to use prowess without dipping into another color imo.
June 9, 2015 10:33 p.m.
HolyFalcon says... #12
MAGESTIC_LLAMA wait, Jeskai Ascendancy combo was dominant in Standard? When?
June 9, 2015 10:34 p.m.
also to everyone note the last part of my comment states that the cards that are spoiled as of right now seem fairly junky but that I hope for better stuff in the rest of the 300 cards. i never said that the whole set was garbo.
June 9, 2015 10:36 p.m.
Lokotor - Well of course the first few cards that have been spoiled are junky, they're mostly commons/uncommons. You don't really expect Wizards to show us the good cards with 2 weeks to go before the real spoilers start? Additionally, Blue is THE spell color. Why does Prowess, a spells matter mechanic, a bad fit for Blue?
June 9, 2015 10:39 p.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #15
Between KTK and FRF, that was the meta at every LGS at my shop. Don't no about PT, but it was a very opressive boring deck. And, Prowess is great for blue. Cantrips and force spikes make for a win condition. And who doesn't like the lili? I think shes great
June 9, 2015 10:42 p.m.
I've only been playing since gatecrash but as far as spoilers go, i'm used to wizards showing us most of the rares and mythics way before the bulk of the commons. Having the commons revealed first isn't a bad thing, but it's not what i'm used to. Maybe they did it differently in the past.
June 9, 2015 10:42 p.m.
i dont have a link but that chandra has been confirmed as fake.
June 9, 2015 10:44 p.m.
Because blue isn't an aggro color and wizards doesn't print cantrips or other convenient low cost spells that can be used to trigger prowess frequently. Blue is about attacking with evasive creatures, ones that don't have to be buffed with prowess triggers to be able to hit. Cards like Invisible Stalker or Storm Crow. Things that are tough to block so they can get in while you control what your opponent plays and set the tempo of the game. Blue is a slow color, and prowess is an aggressive mechanic which is better suited in colors that use combat tricks, such as red or white. it's fine to have blue be paired with them, as it was in ktk, but blue shouldn't be the primary color for prowess imo if it's an evergreen.
My argument is that prowess probably shouldn't be an evergreen ability. at least not with blue as the primary color for it. I'm Not saying that blue is complete poo and the worst color in magic and that prowess is a bad mechanic.
June 9, 2015 10:48 p.m.
thenba2kgod says... #19
Prowess can be used in a non aggressive way though. It can be used to keep your creature safe from a Lightning Bolt or Lightning Strike.
June 9, 2015 10:52 p.m.
Lokotor - You and I have a fundamental disagreement about Prowess's place with Blue as its primary color. If I attack with a prowess creature on an empty board, and you attempt to remove it and I cast Cancel not only does my creature live but it hits you harder than before. Prowess pushes Blue in an aggressive direction much like Delver of Secrets Flip. This lets Blue show off its tempo side by taking advantage of spells like Unsummon, Disperse, Jace's Ingenuity, and so on. Prowess is a "spells matter" mechanic and Blue is the "spells matter" color. It's a match made in heaven.
That said, I'm a little skeptical as well for Prowess being evergreen, since it's the only evergreen mechanic that actually pumps creatures. But I'm willing to give Wizards the benefit of the doubt because of how it played in Khans of Tarkir and Fate Reforged.
June 9, 2015 10:53 p.m.
I know i'm late to the party, but Liliana isn't bad. Maybe for standard, but in EDH if built well, she can make a pretty nasty control general.
June 9, 2015 11:04 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #22
I'm not a fan of Prowess as an evergreen mechanic. All the other evergreens leave it all on the table. Flying creatures fly, trampling creatures trample...etc.
Prowess is unique in that it's deceptive. Deception can be very important to high-level gameplay, but I don't believe that it belongs at the most basic level of the game, where the other evergreen mechanics really shine.
June 9, 2015 11:09 p.m.
Liliana is never going to flip. If you are playing against someone competent they are just going to take the hits or block until they find a kill spell.
June 9, 2015 11:21 p.m.
Sidisi, Undead Vizier ect... You don't need to let the opponent have an option.
June 9, 2015 11:23 p.m.
@kyuuri117, You do realize there are other ways to kill your own creature than having someone block it, right?
June 9, 2015 11:24 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #26
Seismic elemental looks so boss. A good addition to red deck wins
June 9, 2015 11:25 p.m.
They can kill her with exploit on the stack. I mean, yea, i didn't mean she literally won't ever flip. Of course it's going to happen sometimes. But the vast majority of the time, you are going to be getting a 2/2 lifelink creature for 3. And that's it.
You can't put these planeswalker/creatures into your deck on the value of their walker side, because realistically, you aren't going to get to them often. If the walker half's end up being worthwhile, decks are going to be crafted with the intention of not letting that happen. Which will just make it even harder to flip em.
And sonnet666, two-for-one-ing yourself just to get a planeswalker on the field is not worth it, no matter how good the walker is. Because the walker will be dead in a turn or two.
June 9, 2015 11:27 p.m.
OtakulordAndrew says... #28
@IndependentMeta RDW does not want a high cmc below curve power and toughness creature that only prevents creatures with flying from blocking, it might be alright for limited but I can't see it being played in standard or any eternal format.
June 9, 2015 11:32 p.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #29
So I'm going to assume you've never heard of cards like Fleshbag Marauder and its ilk? Or the whole black theme of sacrificing creatures for power? Or how liliana is really good in MBC edh or tiny leaders? Most legends are not good for Standard or Modern, but bust balls in EDH. MBC is a thing, y'know
June 9, 2015 11:36 p.m.
In modern I think the best way to trigger the new Liliana will be either Sakura-Tribe Elder, Spellskite or Vampire Hexmage. While the land ramp from Steve may not be needed in every deck he's an easy way to play around removal while netting advantage. Spellskite is just good because it can save Lili from most things. Vampire Hex Mage is good against anything with counters. (Like an Opponent's Liliana, either new or Liliana of the Veil).
June 9, 2015 11:39 p.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA thank you for articulating my point better. Thats what I was trying to say.
I'm a bit defensive of Liliana because I have a deck around her. (have for quite a while now.)
June 9, 2015 11:40 p.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA So... let's try this scenario out. You play lili, pass. I play land and pass, intending to take a hit from her next turn, see what you do, and kill her end of turn. You draw, attack. I take the damage. Main phase 2, you play fleshbag marauder... and I kill lili in response to either you casting it or with the trigger on the stack. Lili dies, does not trigger, and then fleshbag has to sac itself.
Your board is gone, and she didn't trigger. This is how it's going to work out most of the time. Yes, sometimes your opponent wont have a removal spell and lili will flip. That won't make up for the times she did nothing.
Secondly, this new lili is terrible in mono-black control edh. Mono-black control edh plays what, 10 creatures? Fifteen? You aren't going to get her to trigger there either.
Yea she's fine in tiny leaders. Not bad, not great, but fine. Or, you know, you could play an actual relevant general in mono-black tiny leaders like Toshiro Umezawa and just run Lili of the Veil in the deck.
June 9, 2015 11:51 p.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #33
OtakulordAndrew he's pretty beasty in a sense he prevents all creatures without flying from blocking leaving the doors opens for tiny monsters to come in and attack. I like him as a staple monster for maybe something like grixis or something that can offer protection diffently a contender for the standard format
June 9, 2015 11:57 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #34
New Lilly isn't even worth it to flip. As a planeswalker she's meh at best.
I would have liked Prowess to be a white or red ability myself but who cares, when they give us a mana efficient creature with prowess modern players will just splash for it.
June 10, 2015 12:01 a.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #35
It's a lot of early skeptism. Most player do make the mistake of saying a card wouldn't be good from playing knowledge of the game. But there are deciding factors that could change the way the game is being played out. Some people thought a staple such as Anticipate wouldn't get main deck play. Even thou we all know how good scrying is. I remember I underestimated a card I forgot which one. But as soon as I saw a friend of mine play it with board factors it dominated. I forget lilianas requiremeants to flip but I'm sure it shouldn't be near impossible unless we have like a two drop kill spell that can take her out
June 10, 2015 12:05 a.m.
IndependentMeta Well it's too darn bad we don't have Ultimate Price in the format huh. That would just be super convenient. Oh well.
June 10, 2015 12:08 a.m. Edited.
IndepenentMeta says... #37
Plays with Sidisi's Faithful seem pretty possible with the new liliana
June 10, 2015 12:08 a.m.
Plays with the new liliana seem pretty possible with the new liliana.
I am not shitting you.
June 10, 2015 12:11 a.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #40
Dude I swear to god this man is a fucking genius if any of you hypothermia retards planned out shit half as well as this guy tapped out would diffently have more pt champions. Thanks 6tennis we d be lost with out u
June 10, 2015 12:13 a.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #41
Anyways the plan would be
Turn 4
Liliana summon
Sidisi's Faithful summon
Exploit Sidisi's Faithful bounce monastery mentor or other early drops. Take advantage of summon sickness
Liliana transform
Discard.
Not sure how well that would work thou
June 10, 2015 12:16 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ - Prowess is primary in Blue, secondary in Red, and tertiary in White. So there will exist Red and White cards with Prowess, it's just that Blue will have more of it being the "spells matter" color.
June 10, 2015 12:16 a.m.
OtakulordAndrew says... #43
Considering that Seismic Elemental's etb will be active only on the turn played and the high cmc I really can't see RDW wanting it as it feels to slow at 5cmc if it was 3cmc maybe even 4cmc for a creature with below curve power and toughness that prevents non flying creature from blocking it might see more play in a standard environment but who knows maybe it will be relevant in the new standard, although it is without question to slow to be viable in any eternal format RDW. Modern RDW wanting to win by turn 4, legacy RDW wanting to win by turn 3, and Vintage RDW being non existent.
June 10, 2015 12:24 a.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #44
What is this perfect world scenario where I cast a useless Fleshbag Marauder and you have removal? Call me skeptic, but it seems highly unlikely that I misplay terribly and you have the perfect hand.
June 10, 2015 12:33 a.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #45
You don't even gurantee that every deck will be control. The fact is, lili will be good in Mono Black edh along with sac engines and all the other good stuff that makes black good. Players will not always have removal, and I certainly won't misplay by casting a Fleshbag Marauder against a control deck for the sole purpose of flipping my lili.
June 10, 2015 12:35 a.m.
IndepenentMeta says... #46
well it could be used as a tech 1-2 card in GR aggro along side Surrak, the Hunt Caller, his effect of giving a creature. Haste could synergize well with creatures not being able to block
June 10, 2015 1:16 a.m.
I'm just really antsy to see what the Gideon and Jace flipwalkers are going to be like.
June 10, 2015 2:12 a.m.
MAGESTIC_LLAMA says... #48
Jace had better be good. Hopefully he's flip is counter a spell or drawn two-three cards this turn
mathimus55 says... #1
Preach
June 9, 2015 10:06 p.m.