Mardu Charm
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Sept. 7, 2014, 9:21 p.m. by nighthawk101
VampireArmy says... #2
In a strictly modern player with a huge obsession with making these colors tier 1..What would you expect?
September 8, 2014 2:10 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #3
As the colours are vastly only fringe, the card itself won't see much play. However there will be a large influx of decks in modern among the colours that khans signify. Particularly Junk, 
and 
. This set itself will define entirely the degree of which colours modern will see an influx of. As this is will be the 2nd card that represents instant speed hand disruption in modern EVER, it is guaranteed to see play. However as I said before, the colours will make it fringe, unlike Vendilion Clique
being only one colour, creature targetable, anti-graveyard interaction, AND a body.
September 8, 2014 3:12 a.m.
trentfaris242 says... #6
@abenz419 My point was that if you're running each of those cards main board then your deck already has problems with consistency and synergy. It's not worth having them all in the mainboard on one overcosted card.
The same is true of Sultai Charm . Part 1 says to destroy target monocolored creature. We saw from this last rotation that Ultimate Price was usually run in the side board. It's great against monocolored creature based decks, but that's about it. Part 2 says to destroy target artifact or enchantment. This section is useless if the opponent isn't running any. Part 3 says to draw 2 cards, then discard a card. This effect is universally good for Sultai, but not at 3 mana.
If you only need 1 part of the card, then you're wasting mana for having the option to the other 2 parts. If you're playing against control deck running only AEtherling , parts 1 and 2 become useless and you now have a 3-drop Duress at instant speed (which, by the way, it's not very often you need to discard at instant speed).
Sultai Charm is in the same boat as Mardu Charm . It only does 1 thing, but lists 3. Sure, you have options, but the odds that you need each of of those abilities frequently main board is pretty rare.
@CommanderOfBolas Call me when Modern pros are placing top-8 with it in either main board or side board. Spoiler alert: it won't happen.
September 8, 2014 9:45 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #7
I love how we're dissing the clan and the charm when less than a third of the set's cards have been spoiled.
September 8, 2014 9:48 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #8
Essentially, it reads 'Kill a creature with power 4 or less, OR kill two attacking creatures with toughness 1 (and get creatures to stay on your side), OR Duress at instant speed'
Charms will never be wonderfully costed, but I can see this being useful.
September 8, 2014 9:53 a.m.
I dislike the fact this has no flavor text, like Sultai Charm .
September 8, 2014 9:59 a.m.
Removal, or Disruption, or 2x Tokens... all at instant speed.
Sounds perfect for a B/W tokens deck... except for the fact that it has Red, of course.
If my deck design calls for splashing Red (which is starting to look promising), I will likely run this in BW tokens for KTK Standard
- Flame Slash
at +2CMC... but at instant speed instead of Sorcery.
- Raise the Alarm
at +1CMC... but gives First Strike until end of turn.
- Duress at +2CMC... but at Instant speed instead of Sorcery.
Assuming that being "overcosted" is due to versatility/options... this seems very reasonably costed and a very useful/powerful card. (Maybe not in all decks, but in many)
September 8, 2014 10:25 a.m.
the thing is....Ultimate Price isn't a sideboard card, it's been main boarded for quite some time. It deals with almost all of the biggest threats that have been around this entire standard season (for example: Polukranos, World Eater . Desecration Demon , Stormbreath Dragon , almost the entire mono-blue devotion deck, and Gray Merchant of Asphodel in response to his trigger). The destroy target enchantment or artifact part of Sultai Charm is a little more situation dependent but there is still quite a few enchantments running around from Theros which is why Golgari Charm has been seeing main board action depending on what they're expecting the meta to look like at any given tournament, and there's actually been quite a few spoiled in the new set already and very easily could be more that haven't been spoiled yet that end up seeing tons of play. So it seems a little hasty and stupid to say a card that destroys artifacts and enchantments is useless when you don't even know what's going to be used. Also I don't know where your getting your false information from but, 3 mana to draw 2 and then discard one is not too much. A quick search on gatherer for that ability shows that there are only 8 cards in magic history that do that for less than 3 mana and half of those are cards like Magus of the Bazaar and Forget which aren't even really the same ability but show up in a search for "draw two cards, then discard a card". Even Catalog one of the earliest cards with this ability cost 3 mana, and it doesn't even provide you with other useful abilities.
This is getting to be pointless. You've already determined that your incorrect information and your opinions are right and everyone else is wrong, so it's now just a waste of my time having to constantly correct all of your false misleading information because frankly you don't care if it's right or wrong. You just want to argue about it. That's why you only pointed out that one matchup against a near creatureless control deck and claimed your right because you say it's not useful in that match up because you'd only want the last ability. Yeah your not going to use it to kill their AEtherling
(then again it doesn't really matter what removal spell you have your not gonna kill it) but you are going to use it to destroy their Banishing Light
, Detention Sphere
, and if you get lucky and catch them sleeping without enough mana up their Elixir of Immortality
along with gaining some card advantage by being able to draw 2 cards and then discarding whatever card in your hand you need the least. Instead of the control match up, how come you didn't bring up the Mono-Black matchup (you know easily the most popular deck over the last year) where the only creature you can't kill with Sultai Charm
is Nightveil Specter
, and where their Underworld Connections
(an important card for them) could be destroyed with it, not to mention how helpful the card draw would be in a game of attrition. Oh wait, I think I know why you didn't bring up that match up. You didn't bring up the match up against Mono-Black because it makes everything you've argued completely wrong.
I'm done trying to explain things to you. Like I said you don't care about being right or wrong, all you care about is arguing and your willing to even make thing up to do so. SHAME ON YOU!
September 8, 2014 10:49 a.m.
trentfaris242 says... #12
I have to wade through a wall of text to respond to you.
Ultimate Price hasn't been main board in MBD in 6 months. That's just a fact. They run Hero's Downfall , Bile Blight , and Devour Flesh to deal with each of the threats you listed.
Golgari Charm sees main board play because of its ability to regenerate creatures in response to Supreme Verdict .
Every mechanic you've listed is absolutely necessary in both the Modern and Standard meta. You're not wrong about that! However, you don't need access to them at all times! You're arguing that you should main board an over costed, jack-of-all-trades card just because it can handle lots of match ups. But the fact of the matter is that when it doesn't have to, it's weak!
Post rotation doesn't have Nightveil Specter or Underworld Connections , but let's assume they did. Instead of side boarding Ultimate Price and some enchantment hate, idk, say Unravel the Aether , you're going to main board a card that could well be useless against GW Aggro (another very popular deck right now). You don't get to benefit by destroying enchants because they barely run any. You don't get to benefit by destroying lots of monocolored creatures because their best creatures are multicolored. That leaves a 3-drop draw 2 and discard 1.
When building a side board, you fill it with cards that help against otherwise weak match ups. You don't try to compensate by finding a way to throw it all into the mainboard in a janky way.
September 8, 2014 11:12 a.m.
GW Aggro runs Banishing Light , so it's not really a dead card.
September 8, 2014 2:35 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #14
Some GW Aggro decks run Banishing Light , not all. MTGTop8.com shows lots of top-8 GW Aggro decks without it, and very rarely do the ones who do run it include more than a 2 or 3-of.
September 8, 2014 2:39 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #15
It's really asinine that there's this huge debate about the sultai charm here when it's the Mardu charm in question. Also who the hell knows what will be popular after rotation until every single card is shown. The meta is going to shift, things are going to change. If you don't like it. Don't play it. If you do like it, play it. personally I've come to halfway retract my earlier statement. The instant speed is not something to forget. It's really odd to me that people are knee jerk bashing nearly every card spoiled. Try it out, proxy and play-test THEN come to conclusion
In essence : chill the fuck out.
September 8, 2014 2:49 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #16
@VampireArmy Normally I'd agree with you, but this is a completion of a cycle that Wizards already started (see cards like Bant Charm ). The ally clan colored charms are better, and still very few of those cards see play. Some do, but a lot do not.
September 8, 2014 2:54 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #17
I'd say it depends on the brew. All the charms are at the very least EDH playable (if not but barely) the mardu charm for example works much better in my modern aggro deck than i'd first though heres why :
I don't want flameslash in my deck because at 1 mana, i'm playing creatures and i need to be able to answer them fast or give up a turn burning away blockers. All of my removal spells need to be fast or cheap. This mode fits because i can leave up the mana for it fairly easily in accordance to it's other modes.
A raise the alarm type effect where I can spawn them in and block semi-favorably then attack the next turn matters. It's the diffference between chumping, loosing both of them and having to spend more mana to deploy more guys and just having these guys survive the attack to fight aniother turn. If not that, then they become aristocrat bait and instant speed save my creature.
third mode is basically RBW Vendilion Clique yes, not half as powerful but in my deck, i don't care about removing anything except wipes, combo peices, and Path to Exile i'll happily deploy this on draw steps when they seem to have the right thing
My point is, these new charms can see play. Just gotta get much more creative
Arwin_Rand says... #1
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure why all the hate for the card but it's not as hyperbolic here as other places so I'll take it. It at least warrants testing I think and it's going on my relatively small list of cards I know I want from this set. I reevaluate that list completely once the set's been spoiled anyway but it's nice to see things jump on it fast.
September 8, 2014 2:07 a.m.