Metamorphosis
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Aug. 25, 2014, 11:14 a.m. by spyroswiz
According to today's article in Daily MTG, Mark Posewater announced the new structure of blocks. We are going to have 2 rotations each year( one in fall and one in spring). Also, in summer 2015 its going to be the last core set. From then we are going to have 2 blocks each year. Whats your thoughts about the new model? For more informations: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mm/metamorphosis
JakeHarlow says... #3
I don't like this. At all. Did I hear this right? No more Core Sets??
August 25, 2014 11:21 a.m.
Youre mad at the core sets being removed? Im mad at the double rotations
August 25, 2014 11:23 a.m.
Yeah, im kinda disappointed about the core set. As about double rotations, EmblemMan is right, more money for standard cards that rotate in about 6 months!
August 25, 2014 11:25 a.m.
Yeah it just seems like the rotations are happening faster and faster, which is making it pointless to hold onto/find cards just to play standard because they rotate too fast to make it worth it.
August 25, 2014 11:26 a.m.
Nigeltastic says... #9
I personally think this is an awesome change. I don't play Standard because I want to hold onto cards forever and the format to get stale, that's why Modern and Legacy exist. The fact that there are two rotations a year will mean things like Mono Black Devotion don't just run the ship for an entire year, as things will get mixed up faster, and the "Third Set Issue" won't exist anymore so we won't have shitty sets like Born of the Gods as they try to compensate. I'm super excited.
August 25, 2014 11:29 a.m.
Also, this year's standard was WAY repetitive and boring after awhile. MBD,MUD,Control decks and a bit of Burn was this year decks that won almost every big tournament.
August 25, 2014 11:32 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #11
I'm actually happy to see coreset go. There never was really much in it except rehashed walkers and the few chase cards.
August 25, 2014 11:33 a.m.
I loved Lorwyn/Shadowmoor, and people are always complaining that cards are around too long for standard.
I'd like to see archetypes be shaken constantly.
August 25, 2014 11:34 a.m.
Am I happy that the format won't get stale? Yes. But WotC is nuts if they think I'm going to drop $100+ on a deck that rotates after 6 months. This is the stupidest thing I've read. Now I have a better reason to just stock up on modern staples in standard and stop playing standard. Screw you Wizards.
August 25, 2014 11:35 a.m.
Getting to buy another expansion set instead of a core set in the summer doesn't sound like a waste of money to me. Core sets are almost always terrible.
August 25, 2014 11:38 a.m.
MindAblaze says... #15
I agree with Nigeltastic to some extent.
With the internet, everybody has access to whatever the flavor of the week is. It drives the secondary market, and it allows certain decks to just sit and stagnate as the "best deck of the format" until rotation. I imagine this set-up will allow decks to sit for shorter spans atop the podium as more cards will be released a year, theoretically. Shake things up.
August 25, 2014 11:40 a.m.
Also...has nobody considered that the speed with which standard cards rotate might just REDUCE the cost of standard staples before they cycle out and go into modern? This could easily make standard cheaper to play rather than the same price or more expensive. The lack of a crappy core set will also generally increase how much of each set gets bought.
August 25, 2014 11:41 a.m.
I'm on board with shaking up the block structure and axing the core sets. I don't like the new rotation; it may shake things up, but it will also mean an even more limited pool of cards (fewer playables, fewer viable decks).
August 25, 2014 11:41 a.m.
I can completely agree that the meta in this standard, and others, has been completely repetitive and dominated by a few decks. However, this is not the way to "shake up standard" as people say. This is similar to a ban list, wizards thinks that something is too good so they just get rid of it. They think standard is too repetitive and only a couple of decks are valid and so they just want to scrap it, waste people's money, and push them to the most expensive and less played formats (I understand legacy and modern are played but I believe standard to be the most widely played). Now, I realize that this would only upset standard players, like myself, but keep in mind this does NOT push people towards modern it simply repels people from standard and from the game itself because part of being a new player is building your first GOOD deck and competing in FNM but you cant do that as much if your spending 100+ dollars every six months instead of a year and a half or whatever it is. The solution to the stale meta problem is not just to scrap what is stale but to not overpower one color. Granted when multiple blocks are in standard its hard to test everything, but there has to be another solution then to just rotate every 6 months.
August 25, 2014 11:48 a.m.
So Modern becomes the primary format. Stop suggesting that would be so terrible or that it pushes you to a more expensive format.
The faster standard rotates the more often they can print things like, I dunno, Fetchlands, Duals with basic land types, maybe Damnation.
There's been such a power concern over certain things being in standard together which is why they take so long to see reprints, which is half the reason why modern is so expensive.
August 25, 2014 11:54 a.m.
while exact decklists might rotate every six months, individual cards will still be legal for 18-15 months at a time.
Someone posted this on another forum:
"Under the old system a year consisted of 4 sets:1 - Standard legal for 24 months2 - Standard legal for ~20 months3 - Standard legal for ~17 months4 - Standard legal for ~15 monthsYour average cards you buy are now legal in Standard for around ~18-19 months. (PLUS MORE because Core sets had a lot of reprints).New system is like this:1 - Standard legal for 18 months2 - Standard legal for ~15 months3 - Standard legal for 18 months4 - Standard legal for ~15 monthsYour average cards you buy will be legal in Standard for around ~17.5 months."
the biggest 2 complaints i see about standard are that it costs too much and people are sick of x card or y deck and can't wait for it to be gone. the new system will help with the 2nd issue, and proper planning and smart trading can help with the 1st issue. if you have a certain style or colors you like to play, keep acquiring cards that could potentially fit in that deck and come rotation you'll have options for when your current cards rotate out.
also realize, for people that play the game as a hobby (not the pros or gp/ptq winning decks) at your local fnm, everyone is going to be dealing with rotation at the same time and it gives you a chance to put the random rares/uncommons that no one thinks are good to use before everyone "figures out" the format.
August 25, 2014 11:58 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #22
People are not receptive to change at all. First the 2 week freakout over the boarder change now this. XD
August 25, 2014 11:58 a.m.
ugh, sorry for the double post but my cut/paste job didn't translate well. trying again.
"Under the old system a year consisted of 4 sets:
1 - Standard legal for 24 months
2 - Standard legal for ~20 months
3 - Standard legal for ~17 months
4 - Standard legal for ~15 months
Your average cards you buy are now legal in Standard for around ~18-19 months. (PLUS MORE because Core sets had a lot of reprints).
New system is like this:
1 - Standard legal for 18 months
2 - Standard legal for ~15 months
3 - Standard legal for 18 months
4 - Standard legal for ~15 months
Your average cards you buy will be legal in Standard for around ~17.5 months."
August 25, 2014 12:03 p.m.
As a Standard player, I like that the meta will change up more often.
I'm sure the FFL (Future Future League) will be able to provide feedback on what cards need to be made to keep certain decks viable. This could lead to decks steadily evolving over time instead of immediately becoming trash the moment cards rotate, and that would help mitigate the financial aspect of the rotation structure.
August 25, 2014 12:06 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #25
Now that I actually read it, I can kind of get the axing of the Core Set.
The cost of Standard for dedicated Standard players might nearly double, while the playing value of Standard, non-Modern playable staples will be reduced by about half. So what concerns me is that competitive Standard might get smaller as some players decide to switch to Eternal formats to protect the play value of their MTG purchases.
That said, I'll keep an open mind. Standard is hella stale these days. Upon considering both sides of this issue, I conclude the following:
The stale nature of Standard (largely due to slow rotation) drives players away from the format.
The new rotation structure will likely damage the play value and re-sale value of Standard staples (ones that are playable in competitive Modern will probably be unaffected). This might drive some players to Eternal formats. The staleness of the format would be lessened greatly, though, so players unsatisfied with the current rotation structure would probably find this more appealing and thus remain more committed to Standard.
Looking at both these observations, we can see that both the current status quo and the new are and probably will drive players away from Standard. But the new system might indeed make the format more healthy since it promotes a (probably) more healthy metagame.
I guess we'll see. I doubt that the secondary market and singles market will recognize that Standard staples will have half their previous lifespan for playability and reduce prices accordingly. Are competive Standard players willing to fork over twice as much to remain with their format of choice? Again, I guess we'll see.
August 25, 2014 12:07 p.m.
Devonin You're comment about making standard cheaper is exactly what WONT happen. With less people playing standard and cracking packs, there will be less of a good card and it will go up in price. In response to "So Modern becomes the primary format. Stop suggesting that would be so terrible or that it pushes you to a more expensive format." comment, modern is a very WIDE format, yet at the same time narrow in what works well. Meaning that until those cards are reprinted that make modern so expensive it will STILL be expensive and these cards are always going to be strong in standard because they are strong cards and only need a few supporting cards in order to make it viable. Sure in the very LONG run modern will drop, but that would happen anyway because they have to reprint those cards in order to make modern as popular as they want it to be.
August 25, 2014 12:09 p.m.
EmblemMan - "You/re comment about making standard cheaper is exactly what WONT happen. With less people playing standard and cracking packs, there will be less of a good card and it will go up in price."
you might be right, but you might be wrong. while standard players do crack a lot of prize packs and boxes, limited is also a very large format and something that wizards spends a lot of time developing. the new 2-block format might increase the number of packs opened due to the limited format and creative world changing twice a year. normally by the end of a block the number of drafters go way down because everyone is sick of the plane (and the cards). also many people don't like to draft core sets at all. the new format could help correct both of those issues.
August 25, 2014 12:17 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #28
I think you guys are over exaggerating to how the market will be affected. With more rotations, cards literally HAVE to drop in price for anyone to make money or play. Sure, you may rotate more often, but I'd be incredibly surprised if the average cost of a Standard deck didn't also drop quite heftily. If it didn't, the format would be way too expensive to play and sellers would make next to no money.
August 25, 2014 12:20 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #29
"Starting with "Blood" block in September 2015" NEXT BLOCK ANNOUNCED GUYS WHUTUP.
August 25, 2014 12:21 p.m.
shuflw I honestly do not care one way or the other about core sets, I understand the problem with them and why they want to get rid of them. However, a LARGE portion of competitive people crack a box or two once a set comes out. The problem with this is that people are going to want to buy singles because they dont have the time to just open packs and hope they get them, they would want to spend their money on what they know they need. NOW, at the same time that would cause prices to go up and people might crack packs in hopes to open that card so they do not have to buy them? That is a possibility, and I do not deny that, but I wouldn't want to take the risk that people would just drop out of standard.
August 25, 2014 12:24 p.m.
EmblemMan, I think you really believe that standard players crack the majority packs (or even enough to impact available singles)? That is false, they don't. The smart ones buy singles for their decks, because it's cheaper than cracking packs.
You know who crack packs? Limited players. We will still be cracking packs. I'm not sure about where you're at. But for the most part, the block is only drafted from sept-june at most. and it usually suffers during the winter, (November to February for the end set release) drafting every few weeks.
The 3rd set problem is a limited problem and BNG wasn't drafted that much. I think we only did a couple weeks of drafting that because it was boring. Meaning that drafters and sealed should be cracking more packs than not. These are also the ones that sell cards back to the LGS so standard players can buy the singles. Casuals will still impulse buy packs also and trade in high priced singles for more packs.
While BNG was the 2nd set, it was still a '3rd set problem' because they held back mechanics for the 3rd set (constellation).
In short, this single drought you're expecting won't be as bad as you think, because standard players aren't buying the majority of packs. If all goes well, more packs will be opened.
Standard won't get more expensive, but the window for a certain card to be considered a playable and worth more than it should be is going to get shorter. The financial game won't change as much as you think, besides get faster. And we're talking 6 month difference in the life of a standard card. Each block will essentially legal for 18 months instead of a max 24 months.
August 25, 2014 12:28 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #32
I think @shuflw is spot on. Card rarity does affect price SOME, but the primary influence on a card's price is its performance in tournaments over time. With Standard rotating more often, card prices also drop in the short term.
August 25, 2014 12:32 p.m.
EmblemMan - i'd argue that box sales (and thus pack-cracking) will increase.
i don't think the slight decrease in standard duration (24 months to 18 months for the first set and 20 months to 15 months for the second set) will prevent most standard players who normally buy a box from changing their habits.
i also think the the 3rd set of a block changing to a 1st set from a brand new block and the core set not being a core set will increase the numbers of boxes being opened in spring and summer. people get excited about the new possibilities.
August 25, 2014 12:32 p.m.
When looking at Standard costs, the real important thing to look at is "With the new system, how often do I have to buy new cards?" - The answer is "The same as before."
Each new set will be printed in the same frequency as new sets currently are (4 sets per year).
The fact that sets rotate sooner than they previously have does not change the fact that when new cards are printed, you will need/want to buy them (at a rate that is based on their relative power and influence on Standard).
The only financial aspect to consider when looking at the rotation times is that when rotation occurs, 2 sets leave and one is added... as opposed to 4x leaving as 1 (sort of 2, due to overlapping Core sets) is added. - This makes it much more likely that the core of your deck will remain intact, and it will be cheaper to maintain that deck longer (less cards needing to be replaced on any given rotation) - This, of course assumes that you continue using the same deck for a long period... something which is not common in Standard.
In short, the costs associated with the new Standard format will be the same as the costs of the current Standard format... what will change is "when" you decide to spend you money, as you will have more variation/options of what to do with your deck(s).
August 25, 2014 12:32 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #35
I should have added: that doesn't make Standard cheaper in the long run. It actually keeps the price at around the same as it is now.
August 25, 2014 12:33 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #36
I don't see how this could possibly be a bad thing for Standard. It's actually making me reconsidering playing it once Theros rotates out.
August 25, 2014 12:41 p.m.
Also note.... when Wizards prints one of their Thragtusk , Supreme Verdict , or Sphinx's Revelation strength of cards, it will rotate out in 15-18 months.
Might keep some of the complaining down a little... Maybe...?
August 25, 2014 12:43 p.m.
I can't afford this system! I live on ~100 dollars per month and I still have to buy food!
My access to this game (or standard atleast) is hereby gone.
August 25, 2014 12:58 p.m.
@TexasDice...
Still only 4 sets introduced per year... same as before. If you can't afford the new rotation cycle, you can't afford the current one.
August 25, 2014 1 p.m.
Except for all the 20-30 dollar cards I can't use for two years. Saving up for those is pointless now.
RDW, here I come...?
August 25, 2014 1:06 p.m.
...so... if you're "saving up" for cards... you aren't currently getting 2 years out of them, are you...? - Unless you are saving up for cards before they have been spoiled/released... but then I would have to assume you can do that at the same frequency as before, and buy cards you want, as they are being release, when you can afford them.
August 25, 2014 1:12 p.m.
The point is that poorer players lose 6 months of saving, which is a bad thing.
It also means that demand for certain chase rares will remain the same but the supply will be lower (due to rotation happening a bit more often) which will increase some costs.
It's not a great idea really.
August 25, 2014 1:27 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #43
@ChiefBell Card prices tend to fall over time in Standard. As rotation grows nearer, cards drop in price as players realize their value plummets upon rotation. This is just going to escalate that process. As a result, the average value of a card decreases. So 6 months less of saving doesn't actually lose you anything, because you don't need to save as much.
I predict this same economic occurrence will "spill over" into prerelease prices. Because cards are in the meta for 6 months less, players are much less inclined to pay through the nose for them. Gone are the days where a Standard card is released at $35-40.
The chase mythics thing is pretty accurate, but that's few and far between.
August 25, 2014 1:37 p.m.
I think this idea is great. Really great! It's great for us players, it's great for WOTC and it's great for Standard as a format. Just imagine the new rotation-cycle in our current Standard! No more mono-boring-devotion dominating Standard for months! This is so awesome!
Yeah sure the money-factor might be a thing - but let's face it: Magic is expensive. Deal with it - or look for another hobby. More frequent rotations just means you have to watch magic finance more closely than before and it actually benefits players that are skilled in card evaluation.
I think it's awesome that the stupid core-sets are history. Who actually ever loved the core-set anyways? The only thing I hope for, is that WOTC tries to take some regulating action in the secondary market by reprinting more high-profile cards that are simply way too expensive right now: Liliana of the Veil , Snapcaster Mage , Fulminator Mage , Damnation , Tarmogoyf , Cryptic Command , Celestial Colonnade , Dark Confidant , all the fetchies, Mox Opal , Karn Liberated , Vendilion Clique etc. (you know them all, all those shiney cards you'd like to own, but can't because of their absurd price-tag).
Other than that, this is the best news in months and I cannot wait for 2016. Good riddance core-sets!
August 25, 2014 1:43 p.m.
6 months of saving on the fall set, 3 months on the winter set, breaks even on the spring set and gains 3 months on the core/summer set. so an average of 3 months.
the speculation on chase rares being pricier may be valid, but i still speculate in the opposite direction due to more potential for limited pack-opening, and twice as many rotations where it takes weeks/months for people to figure out the format and nail down the tier 1-1.5 decks.
also with more rotation more often, there could just be that many more rogue decks in the format that can be tier 1.5-2. more different decks competitive decks in a format and less time for the internet to determine the "best" decks could lead the top decks to be less oppressive, as it could be harder to have answers for every deck in the format.
August 25, 2014 1:46 p.m.
But no-one wants to buy the card when it's about to rotate - you want to buy the card with the standard season ahead so you can actually play with it. All this does is reduce the length of the season by 6 months which is 6 months less save time and 6 months less play time.
Some prices stay pretty damn high for a long time. If an individual wanted to purchase say......Stormbreath Dragon (who stayed around $17-$20 for somewhere in the region of 6 months) they'd have less time to save and then play with the card.
This is also not very good for modern. We might see more reprints with an increased cycle, but each reprint will be around for less time.
August 25, 2014 1:47 p.m.
redid my math:
6 months saving on the fall set, 6 on the winter set, even on the spring and summer. still averages to 3 months.
August 25, 2014 1:49 p.m.
From the point of view as someone who primarily plays EDH and Limited, this is great. The Core Sets were a waste of space if you've been playing all that long because there were a very limited number of interesting cards that came from them for EDH and they weren't all that fun to draft.
Also with having dabbled in Standard previously, I'm fine with it too. As others have said, this is probably going to force people into trying out more and different types of decks. When I played Standard there were 1 or 2 decks that actually mattered and everyone bought them, and that is just boring, so let's skip that and see a greater variety as people adjust more quickly to try and find the next winning deck.
August 25, 2014 1:49 p.m.
I don't even play standard anyway, but I'm thinking about the guys that literally get like $10 a week from their parents and want to play standard - this robs them of valuable time and it's just not fair for the casual player.
August 25, 2014 1:49 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #50
Money will not be an issue. Either:
- The 18 month legality window will crash singles prices for the entire time period. The game becomes more affordable.
- The 18 month legality window will only accelerate the pre-rotation decrease in price. Affordability remains the same or improves slightly.
I don't see how it's possible to come up with a scenario where the 18 month legality window somehow raises singles prices or prevents some of the effect of the pre-rotation decrease. Don't say "fed up players cracking less packs and making things scarce", because that means interest in the game has dropped significantly enough that singles prices will follow.
EmblemMan says... #2
It makes standard a bigger waste of money and thats coming from someone who only plays standard
August 25, 2014 11:19 a.m.