Metamorphosis
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Aug. 25, 2014, 11:14 a.m. by spyroswiz
According to today's article in Daily MTG, Mark Posewater announced the new structure of blocks. We are going to have 2 rotations each year( one in fall and one in spring). Also, in summer 2015 its going to be the last core set. From then we are going to have 2 blocks each year. Whats your thoughts about the new model? For more informations: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mm/metamorphosis
Why are we assuming there will be more archetypes? The top tier decks will shift more often, but the number of viable archetypes within each 6 month time frame doesn't seem likely to change.
I don't hate the new structure, but I do have some concern about the consequences of a smaller card pool.
August 26, 2014 9:46 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #3
Current extended meta would be all about the Innistrad and RTR decks that dominated standard. Theros wouldn't even stand a chance of getting a few cards in. Mana Confluence and Thoughtseize are probably the best of the cards, may see some Mono-U decks, but beyond that, extended is just a repeat of what we already saw in standard.
August 26, 2014 9:46 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #4
We are assuming more deck archetypes jr92_2000 because currently, there are 2-4 sets in any standard season that really do not change or add any new deck archetypes. Those sets are the core sets, and the third set of every block. Basically this means that there are only 4 sets that define the archetypes of standard, the first two sets of every block. Now if we eliminate the sets that are not benefiting standard at all, and instead replace them with another set that has brand new mechanics and potential staples ... we are guaranteed to be getting a better deck archetype variety.
August 26, 2014 9:51 a.m.
Sigh Everyone is already complaining before even opening their minds to the possibilities
August 26, 2014 9:59 a.m.
Femme_Fatale The sets that you consider useless also had their own mechanics (Constellation, Tribute, Inspired, &c.). Some mechanics are just more viable than others. M15 had a bigger impact on standard than Born or Journey. It's easy to imagine the best decks emerging with each rotation and those decks dominating the format until the next rotation. The quicker rotation should keep Standard fresh, but diversity doesn't seem guaranteed at all.
Hopefully you're right though; I'd like to see more archetypes become viable.
jmb072608 Standard would rotate with the first set of each new block (~6 months). Individual blocks would rotate every 18 months.
August 26, 2014 10:25 a.m.
your cards will be standard legal for 18 months but as sets are released the oldest sets will be dropped off, and that will be happening every 6 months. So what happens is every 6 months you lose a block of cards that just spent the last 18 months in standard.
August 26, 2014 10:32 a.m.
trentfaris242 says... #9
@jr92_2000 I would argue that diversity is guaranteed. Yes, each block has a lot of mechanics, but each mechanic in that block is specifically designed to work with that block. Constellation didn't come out until JOU, yet both Theros and BNG had lots of Enchantment Creatures already.
Each block might get 5-7 mechanics, however (as you've stated) only 1 or 2 of those mechanics do well at the competitive level. Why is this? It is because those mechanics have been designed to relate closely to one another. As a result, there's a low variety among decks in a given block.
You said yourself that M15 had a bigger impact on Standard than BNG or JOU. That's because the mechanics were wildly different than that of the Theros block. More blocks means more variety among mechanics. More variety among mechanics means more variety of archetypes.
Let's be honest, though. How many core sets have mechanics that see serious play in the competitive scene? Ya, there were some cool cards in M15 that helped a lot of decks out, but Convoke isn't a game changer. That said, we basically have decks from 2 blocks right now: RtR and Theros. The top control decks seem to be coming from RtR and the top aggro decks from Theros. Increasing the number of of blocks per rotation to 3 blocks increases our variety among decks by about 50% (obviously this number changes based on what's actually being printed).
This isn't a definitive formula, but the only way this new system wouldn't increase the number of archetypes is if WotC just straight up printed a terrible block.
August 26, 2014 10:48 a.m.
@trentfaris242 I think you just hit the important point. M15 caused a stir in standard because of the power level of certain cards rather than their specific mechanics: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Nissa, Worldwaker , Goblin Rabblemaster , Stoke the Flames , Chord of Calling , pain lands.
What I'm envisioning is every rotation certain archetypes will fall out of favor and others will take their spot in the top tier. The most powerful cards in the set (and leftover in the format) will dictate these changes. Diversity will vary wildly with each Standard season.
August 26, 2014 11:13 a.m.
trentfaris242 says... #11
Power cards do determine archetypes quite frequently, but mechanics do as well. Devotion has been huge for Standard over the last year. Constellation was even big for a while. There will always be Tier 1 decks that are just the best, but at least players will have more options as far as what to play, and that makes the format way more fun and interesting.
August 26, 2014 11:19 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #12
You also have to consider one more thing jr92_2000, what is WotC main consumer base?
Actually, let's correct this, what is EVERY GAME COMPANY'S MAIN CONSUMER BASE?
The answer: Casual players. This frequent rotation of sets, and introduction of more blocks will appeal to casual players a lot more.
Don't believe me that casual players drive a game company's sales? Then why did Mario Kart 7 beat the sales of BOTH Portals? Why has Resident Evil 5 beaten the total sales in every single Okami, Wind Waker and ICO game series? Why did Final Fantasy 13 become the third best selling Final Fantasy game in history? Why will we see EA sports making Madden NFL 30 in the far future?
Because they all appeal to casual players. Now in another aspect as to why this will be beneficial indirectly to magic, is more casual players purchasing magic product obviously means more income for WotC. This income means they can hire more people to the developing team. This now means that the aspects of magic, the lore side and the mechanics side, both have an increase in brain power to develop their aspects. This change, which will bring a lot more casual players to buy magic product, will help the developing teams create blocks that are interesting to the level of Zendikar, and have mechanics that are widely used and that create numerous different deck archetypes to the level of Innistrad-RTR.
August 26, 2014 12:12 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #13
I'm pretty sure that was Mario Party 8 that beat both sales of Portal, Femme_Fatale.
August 26, 2014 12:19 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #15
@GoldGhost012 Don't you speak ill of Ocarina of Time, sir! We will have us a throw down!
August 26, 2014 12:43 p.m.
PreZchoICE1 says... #16
Please please please wotc do NOT print another 'twilight' block/set. Otherwise, carry on.
August 26, 2014 12:44 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #17
I'm not knocking Ocarina of Time trentfaris242, it's the truth.
August 26, 2014 12:46 p.m.
@Femme_Fatale I certainly agree that adding more blocks will increase casual interest. This is a smart business move by WotC, and it'll probably turn out to be a smart move for game play reasons as well. Equating that to a more diverse meta seems like a stretch, however.
August 26, 2014 12:48 p.m.
I don't like double rotation at all, that seems bad. I don't play much standard, so Im probably going to enjoy this last year of the standard I know and then stop playing the format completely. Not to say I wont buy new cards, I just don't want to need new cards and build a different deck twice a year. Just isn't going to happen.
I am actually glad they are dropping core sets, as many people have said, there is never really anything super enticing out of core sets (for the most part).
Standard Is meant to be an ever cycling format, so I suppose it is fitting, But Im not big on the decision.
August 26, 2014 12:51 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #20
@Femme_Fatale: I might disagree with post 9:1.
While casual players are certainly a significant demographic in their own right, I have to wonder whether they actually spend as much as the Standard and Limited crowd. Standard and Limited seem to me to be the highest drivers of spend for sets because they are the ones who most need the new cards. Limited can't exist without fairly direct consumption of new product.
The counterargument, I suppose, is that many competitive players purchase their product as singles from the secondary market, which doesn't directly drive spend as far as WOTC is concerned. But I think it's reasonable to say that the number of Standard and Limited players who purchase boxes or packs or fatpacks is still fairly high, and you also have to account for stores that provide product for Limited events in exchange for an entry fee.
As far as secondary products such as Commander releases and Conspiracy, you're right in saying that casual is at the forefront of both spend and consumption.
August 26, 2014 12:51 p.m.
PreZchoICE1 says... #21
Limited is mostly only 'fun' in the first two weeks after release imo.
August 26, 2014 12:56 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #22
Mario Kart 7 has over 9 mil in sales ChiefBell, Mario Party 8 has only a little over 8 mil.
August 26, 2014 1:01 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #23
Lots of comments, didn't read them all, but I'll give my two pennies.
I'm with Epoch in that it's a smart business move on WOTC behalf. More sealed product more often equals more sales. Concerning the rotation cycle, I'm not too keen on that from a competitive player standpoint. I tend to purchase more singles, and being able to get less use out of them if they're primarily Standard playable is a huge con. I opted out of Standard due to cost coupled with the lack of eternal playability of the Theros block. This new change makes me question wanting to invest in Standard ever again.
I do enjoy a prerelease, though, and may do that if a set piques my interest. I'm thankful that Modern and Legacy are supported by my LGS and derive comfort in the playability of my current card investments. I can hope that WOTC will continue to reprint Modern and Legacy cards in the near future.
August 26, 2014 1:03 p.m.
Problem I do see is card cost will stay high to maximize their profits during that rotation. I personally think the rotation should be slower, keep your odd 2 block set idea but allow more sets to be standard at a time than 2. There has been multiple times in which when a set gets spoiled, it has lots of great cards to battle against current meta yet because of rotation, the older cards cycle out and now these nifty counter meta cards end up not as useful as their intentions.
My idea was to dump standard constructed all together. Emphasize on sealed, draft, and Block Constructed for Standard Tournament players. This allows for the new sets to be used and cycle quickly as stated, it also allows for more new players to get involved with major tournaments. I greatly enjoy block constructed. You can still run into issues with powerful cards but what set doesn't have that? This keeps the flavor of the set more vibrant as well as a simpler format for new players but still allows veterans to be involved with the latest metagame.
August 26, 2014 1:07 p.m.
PreZchoICE1 says... #25
I was driven away from standard a looooooong time ago. I generally dislike it as a format simply because of the type of players the format seems to attract. I will still play it from time to time but usually only when I can borrow a deck/an extra player is needed.
August 26, 2014 1:11 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #26
@SkRiGeR: I assume you're talking about the stores that comprise the secondary market because WOTC makes no profit off of singles.
Also, there will still be a minimum of five sets per season. It's just that the maximum will be reduced from eight to six.
@8vomit: My above point (in this post) may console you slightly. With fewer sets being dumped each rotation, there's a good chance that decks will become better at adapting and evolving with rotation rather than becoming completely obsolete. Of course, we shouldn't preclude the possibility that one release will make a deck unplayable due to countersupport, but the likelihood of you needing to replace half of your deck every block is, I think, low. Standard will become a smaller, ongoing investment rather than an all-in annual investment.
August 26, 2014 1:13 p.m.
I've put in bets before and been wrong, but I'd be willing to bet right now that all that happens is that card prices stay the same but they cycle out more frequently.
August 26, 2014 1:19 p.m.
And consider: How long was RTR block in standard making Wizards say "100% no chance whatsoever of a Fetchlands reprint" since Fetches and Shocks were too good to be in standard at the same time?
I rather suspect that the shorter length of time a set is in Standard will also have the effect of making Modern much more accessible, as the rate at which they're likely to reprint modern staples and end up printing new cards which are great for modern will also be increasing.
August 26, 2014 1:23 p.m.
The rate will increase but the supply will decrease because its likely theyll print each set for a shorter amount of time.
August 26, 2014 1:24 p.m.
PreZchoICE1 says... #30
Im with ChiefBell I think thats a pretty safe bet.
August 26, 2014 1:39 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #31
The whole time reading this thread I kept singing "po' people" by nappy roots to myself. All the complaints.
Anyways, I'm pumped for consistent rotation. I kinda wish this change were happening sooner to be honest. Wizards wouldn't have been making the change unless they knew it was something needed and as the article said, several different groups of people all had a similar idea before getting together. It's gonna be great, people won't have to worry about facing the same power decks all the time for a year
The only thing I don't like is that we will never see the end of "post rotation" decks on the feed now...
August 26, 2014 1:41 p.m.
By a few months, maybe. Not enough to really notice. They print cards until the new block releases, right? Maybe they'll keep releasing until two new sets replace the current, i.e. keep printing "Blood" and "Sweat" until "Fears" releases.
I do think the execution of the new rotation is a little clunky to start with. They're releasing 3 sets in the Khans block and a core set we can call M16, most likely. Rather than have the entire Khans block rotate out at the same time, we'll still be playing with "Louie" and M16 after Khans and "Dewey" rotate out. Standard hasn't felt that awkward since Coldsnap.
August 26, 2014 1:44 p.m.
I mean you can con yourself into thinking that wizards trying to line their pockets at our expense is a good thing if you really want to......
August 26, 2014 1:49 p.m.
Yeah, Wizards is the only corporation that does that. Shame on them.
August 26, 2014 1:51 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #35
The current schedule has 4 set releases per year and 4 sets rotating out. The proposed schedule has 4 set releases per year and 4 sets rotating out. Who's "lining their pockets"?
August 26, 2014 1:53 p.m.
Technically the only people who might see some unexpected positive revenue from this are the secondary retailers. With cards rotating out after 18 months instead of 24.
Of course, that article MaRo posted did discuss a possible entry level Magic product, which may be where Wizards is dastardly plotting to make money.
August 26, 2014 1:56 p.m.
Wizards are basically trying to push drafting more aggressively by taking out the weaker sets.
It doesn't matter that many corporations are trying to do it - shame on all of them.
August 26, 2014 1:59 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #38
If players start drafting more with the same number of sets that means they already wanted to do it. Besides, Core Set draft formats have been very fun for the last several years.
August 26, 2014 2:05 p.m.
Wizards is going to sell booster packs no matter how much people draft, ChiefBell. They haven't done anything to push drafting outside of releasing the Conspiracy set, which has nothing to do with Standard or this announcement. Taking out the weaker set of the 3-set format was done to make blocks flow better, both mechanically and flavor-wise.
August 26, 2014 2:07 p.m.
I mean if wizards put out better products then they deserve all the money they get, really. However the temptation is basically to put out lots more EXCITING, but not necessarily BETTER sets - there'll be more drafting but the product won't necessarily be better.
August 26, 2014 2:11 p.m.
Jaxis - wizards wont sell booster packs if shops aren't buying them........ So that's not strictly true at all. Wizards sales are almost completely propagated by drafters.
August 26, 2014 2:14 p.m.
No, I'm not - that's something that's fairly well known. Wizards make money by selling boosters and boxes right? The casual crowd and drafters are most likely to buy these products whilst the hardcore crowds are more likely to buy singles - which give wizards nothing directly.
This revelation came post future sight (which flopped) when wizards realised that their revenue mainly came from the drafting environment and casual players.
August 26, 2014 2:18 p.m.
A little divergence from the norm for this thread....
Regarding the loss of core sets and the development of a new "Beginner Product":
Does anyone think the "Not available in Booster" cards of M15 may be a hint of what is to come?
A "starter game" that consists of "basic" cards from the current Block, + some additional "simple" cards.... put together into "Deck Builder Toolkits" and other 'give-aways' and 'pre-con' decks.
The "additional" cards will be standard legal - allowing new players to simply use their current deck to get into standard without an additional huge investment - but will be more for flavour (Serra Angel / Nightmare ... etc.) and not be overly powerful.
August 26, 2014 2:23 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #45
Future Sight flopped because the entire Time Spiral block was impenetrably complex. The primary audience was players who'd been in the game for a very long time. New players were strongly discouraged by the way the set played, and many more were driven away.
August 26, 2014 2:25 p.m.
Exactly! That's correct. We know that this game isn't propagated by those that love the game and have played it for many years but by new and casual players who dabble.
August 26, 2014 2:26 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #47
I'm just going to give up on trying to understand anything you say.
August 26, 2014 2:28 p.m.
Am I the only tournament-goer who doesn't rely on the singles market?
August 26, 2014 2:37 p.m.
So...changing the game to appeal to the people who pay them the most money for it is an evil corporation lining their pockets? They should be going out of their way to support the people who pride themselves on how LITTLE money they actually pay in Primary Market purchases?
"I've been playing for years! I don't buy packs, I just get what I need in singles!" is not something a person would say that Wizards should care AT ALL about supporting. If Wizards were truly trying to line their own pockets at the expense of the long-time players of Magic, this announcement would have been "We're cancelling the Reserve List" so until that happens, don't worry, Wizards is still making completely unnecessary and arguably poor business choices by catering to the people who gave them some money a long time ago but don't anymore.
August 26, 2014 2:41 p.m.
Devonin but they're increasing rate of rotation, which very simply, means that people need to buy more shit.
darthfrog says... #1
Even when Modern wasn't a format, no one played nor cared about Extended, it basically was just the same decks that were played that everyone had been sick of during that standard season. Extended will never be a thing again. Modern's popularity has pretty much put the nail in Extended's coffin.
August 26, 2014 9:33 a.m.