MGD in M15, splash a color or no?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on July 9, 2014, 2:21 p.m. by strateupjee
So I know this may get moved to deck help or something, but I'm not gonna post the deck list or anything. The only thing that I'm looking for is, how will the MGD decks look? I had the idea to ask from my friend's MGD list that ramps hard, is consistent in play testing, and is pretty much all around ruthless (welcome to MGD right? Haha). Now his question was, would it be worth it to splash a color? A couple notes about this up front is that his budget is pretty high, and he doesn't plan on playing until RTR rotates. That being said, he wanted to splash black for Garruk, Hero's Downfall, and Thoughtseize. I told him that may not offer enough value to offset the cost of the duals and loss of consistency. I have mentioned black because I already know that G/R Monsters will survive very healthily after rotation, so that is a given. What do you guys think? What are other black cards worth splashing for?
trentfaris242 says... #3
What ThatBlueMage said. Pre-rotation it's almost not worth playing.
July 9, 2014 2:52 p.m.
As long as there are large creatures black will always have cheap removal. If it doesn't come in m15 it will come in khans. It's just what black does. That said - if the green player can play multiple threats per turn it does often leave the black player in a sticky situation.
Also something like phytotitan cannot he 1for1d
July 9, 2014 2:55 p.m.
I'm actually interested in seeing how Phytotitan does come rotation. Typically, I would think of the card as bad, but in a different metagame that inability to be 1 for 1'd (apart from exile), even at a slow speed is pretty great.
The problem is that exile does exist -- even come rotation. Cards like Banishing Light and Silence the Believers will almost certainly be played heavily and it would suck to do all the work to get him out and have him "die to doom blade."
All that said, it IS still just a 1 for 1. And green does have some card advantage options even after rotation.
July 9, 2014 3:39 p.m.
It does and remember that you're losing a 6 drop (or 7?) to like 3 and 4 drops. Grim. I don't think phytotitan will be good unless attrition becomes a thing. I would love golgari attrition with lots of control and then phytotitan as a wincon to be a thing.
July 9, 2014 3:42 p.m.
I'm also someone who lately has been despising 2-toughness creatures. Phytotitan
is like the king of the derps in the regard. I would so much more rather play Terra Stomper
, Polukranos, World Eater
, Hornet Queen
, Arbor Colossus
, Hornet Queen
, Soul of New Phyrexia
, Soul of Zendikar
, Hornet Queen
, Genesis Hydra
, Scuttling Doom Engine
, or even Hornet Queen
.
I just don't see the large benefit over most of those guys, especially over Hornet Queen .
July 9, 2014 3:49 p.m.
I don't think hornet queen wins games. She just stalls them out. Not necessarily a good thing for a 7 or 8 drop. I'm on my phone so can't check.
July 9, 2014 3:50 p.m.
With Black, you get Golgari Charm , Reaper of the Wilds , Duress , Thoughtseize , Garruk, Apex Predator , Hero's Downfall (depending on how many Black sources you're running), and lesser options from there.
IMHO, these kinda make the case against MGD. Adding Black doesn't necessarily make your aggro matchup too much better, but it makes your control match-up hugely stronger.
July 9, 2014 3:56 p.m.
I think of Hornet Queen as a card advantage engine over other midrange decks. If you can ramp into her, you've got 5 blockers that (assuming they attack into them) will almost certainly guarantee a 1 for 1 for each of them via creature or kill spell. In an ideal situation, that would mean a 5 for 1, which is insane.
If things happen to get to a point where you'd like to be aggressive, hornet queen still means 6 flying power in the air that can't just be killed all at once with a Doom Blade . The flying means that you have a good chance to crack in damage against planeswalkers -- most notably Elspeth, who can't protect herself from the assault with either or her abilities.
In my opinion, Hornet Queen is basically the queen of the skies come the release of M15. Stormbreath Dragon is very good but does die in battle to a 1/1 deathtouch/flyer. Arbor Colossus can try to catch a bee if he wants to, but he's going to feel the sting. Archangel of Thune can block or attack but I'm pretty sure that isn't going to go too well for her with a swarm on the other side of the field.
I just love all the value you get from one creature -- one you could feasibly get out on T4 or 5 with the printing of Nissa.
July 9, 2014 3:59 p.m.
I forgot all about Hornet Queen being in Standard now.
Yeah, I'd be packing that as a 2-of, probably. The implications of that card in the right situation are insane.
July 9, 2014 4:01 p.m.
Btw, if I personally am going to splash a color, it would be for blue or white (because I'm not about that swamp life). White gives access to Banishing Light and Ajani, Mentor of Heroes . Having access to some great removal and card advantage in that way seems good, and it wouldn't need to result in too many non-forest lands.
Splashing blue would give access to less appealing things for me, at the moment. Prognostic Sphinx is crazy good, of course, but idk if the double-blue would be a problem or not. I wouldn't want to run any of the Jaces, though Kiora, the Crashing Wave is probably the best thing for you in that respect. Having access to some card advantage through her and even some ramp ability as well as a way to hold off midrange and give yourself another win-con is really nice. Those are probably my two options for my MGD deck that I'll be running.
July 9, 2014 4:09 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #13
I'm uneasy about Hornet Queen . If it starts to see play, black will just run Drown in Sorrow and all of the sudden it's a useless 7-drop.
July 9, 2014 4:29 p.m.
strateupjee says... #14
White might not be a bad splash, some enchantment removal would be cool, plus Ajani is just awesome.
July 9, 2014 4:34 p.m.
trentfaris242: I can't deny that Drown in Sorrow is the perfect answer to hornet queen right now, but that's just one situation where I'd board out Hornet Queen and instead crash in with a Terra Stomper , etc.
I don't think Hornet Queen is a be-all, end-all to the format by any means...I just think it's super good when people AREN'T playing Drown in Sorrow .
July 9, 2014 4:34 p.m.
MBD would already be using Drown in Sorrow against you and your slew of Elvish Mystic , Voyaging Satyr , and Scavenging Ooze . I don't foresee one or two copies of Hornet Queen forcing their already-strained sideboard to change.
July 9, 2014 4:57 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #17
Spootyone True, but other than the match up of it vs. Arbor Colossus , isn't it just worse at doing it's job? I find a hard time squeezing in Hornet Queen when there's so many good cards to play in that 6-7 drop spot. We've got Terra Stomper , Arbor Colossus , Hydra Broodmaster , Kalonian Twingrove , Scuttling Doom Engine , Soul of New Phyrexia , and you could even throw Garruk, Apex Predator in there. I just feel like Hornet Queen is worse at winning you the game than all of those, so I have a hard time playing it.
July 9, 2014 5 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #18
Come rotation we have to deal with a T2 5/5 indestructible land swinging. Make sure your deck is set up to handle that right away.
July 9, 2014 5:02 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #19
@zandl Just making sure you understand I'm talking about post-rotation. For all we know Drown in Sorrow could be an auto include in black post rotation.
Hornet Queen isn't the be-all-end-all, no, but not having an answer makes it really frustrating to deal with. Black HAS an answer in the format, it's iust a question of whether or not they include it. If not, definitely worth playing. If so, trash 7-drop.
July 9, 2014 5:03 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #20
It swings on 3. Also, i'm not convinced that scissors tower will make all too large an impact on the meta yet.
July 9, 2014 5:04 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #21
My bad, with an untapped breeding pool and an elvish mystic it swings on two. But that's hyper sketchy.
July 9, 2014 5:06 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #22
I'm really exciting to see how this set changes things. I definitely think it will. All of our speculation could be useless moot, haha.
July 9, 2014 5:06 p.m.
And blue isn't exact an aggro colour so the animate artifact card might sort of get lost in time as a weird oddity in the wrong colour. It's not at all bad - it's just it really lends itself to some sort of izzet aggro (because red does aggro better than most).
July 9, 2014 5:16 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #24
You're right T3 not 2. U can't cast an Elvish Mystic off a Darksteel Citadel T1. I'm thinking more of an affinity type of hand. T1 Darksteel Citadel , Ornithopter , Springleaf Drum , T2 Island Ensoul Artifact .
I know... what are the odds of getting all that in your first 2 turns. ...Affinity however has proven that is well within of the realm of possibilities though.
July 9, 2014 5:16 p.m.
Admittedly, my desire to make Hornet Queen comes partially from my love of the card in general. I've been playing with hornet queen in commander for quite a while now.
As many others are/will be doing, I'm going to do testing with all of the above. There really are just so many big green goodies to use right now and it's hard to fit them all in as best as possible. In time I'm sure we'll all come to a general consensus -- especially after seeing what happens to the meta come rotation :)
July 9, 2014 5:17 p.m.
I love her. I'm dubious about her efficacy but I would like her to be good.
July 9, 2014 5:19 p.m.
ChiefBell: Hornet Queen for life, dude. All hail her majesty!
July 9, 2014 5:20 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #28
Ya I'm the same way. I don't think she's bad, I'm just confused as to which green creatures in the standard meta are best for that slot right now. Time will tell!
July 9, 2014 5:24 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #29
I dunno about all that. I'm building a mono blue (may splash black) artifact deck and there seems to be ridiculous support for the archtype.
Thopters & Citadels as openers. Followed by an easy to cast Illusory Angel and Chasm Skulker
Things like Polymorphist's Jest and Cheif Engineer and Ordeal of Thassa and Trading Post are awesome when paired with Scuttling Doom Engine as a finisher.
Protect everything with the vast amount of counters in standard and your in business!
July 9, 2014 5:26 p.m.
The thought of Dictate of Heliod + Hornet Queen just crossed my mind. Disgusting.
Even just Hall of Triumph + Hornet Queen is pretty nasty.
July 9, 2014 5:28 p.m.
Coat of Arms + Hornet Queen they should reprint it in KTK fits the flavor
July 10, 2014 10:02 a.m.
trentfaris242 says... #32
I really hope Reverent Hunter starts to see more play with MGD on the rise. I love that card.
July 10, 2014 10:11 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #33
MGD got some really good tools in M15 to combat the typical 1-for-1 argument in the matchup against MBD and decks with heavy removal. It already had Garruk, Caller of Beasts , which should net 2-3 creatures per plus, and before rotation, you can run that and Life's Legacy , a card that can only be thwarted by counterspells. Phytotitan (which works quite nicely with Life's Legacy ) and Ancient Silverback were also some pretty nice gets that can only really be dealt with via exiling. And opponents may want to think twice about Detention Sphere or Banishing Light with Back to Nature being in the mix.
As for a splash, you could basically make an argument for any color right now. Black seems legit if that's what you want to do, though I would maybe go with more of a Rock deck type approach which would be far more than a splash. If you were around during last rotation and remember the Disciple of Bolas Rock deck, I'm thinking of a similar of approach with Life's Legacy getting some humongous results with Polukranos, World Eater , Desecration Demon , and Phytotitan .
And yes, Hornet Queen is awesome too.
July 11, 2014 6:19 p.m.
Still not possible, for the mystic to have come out turn 1 you need G which means the darksteel citadel would have to be T2 and still have summoning sickness as a creature.
July 12, 2014 4:50 p.m.
TheSilverBlade says... #35
I'd run with one of green's allied colors, though mono-green could also work pretty well.
Servo_Token says... #2
While Mono black is still a thing, decks that rely on putting out big creatures that are easily 1-for-1'd will not work. After it rotates, though, there's really no saying. It'll definitely be a viable option given our current information, but I can't say that it'll be good with Khans added.
As for the splash, I don't think it's worth the ding on your manabase after rotation. Before, It's worth a shot. I've seen Gb devotion lists do alright in SCG Events, so there's obviously something there.
July 9, 2014 2:44 p.m.