MM2 - Reprintings - Noble Hierarch
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 13, 2014, 11:22 p.m. by BlackyMTG
After seeing Modern Masters 2 being spoiled, I'm waiting on them to announce Noble Hierarch's as if they don't reprint those it'll be so difficult to be able to buy out any deck playing those. I don't believe this card is a 60 dollar card; I'm assuming it'll drop between 10-25. What do you guys think is going to be reprinted and how much will it drop from to?
VampireArmy says... #3
And this is why I'm disliking modern masters the more people talk about it.
"let's make it easier for people to play modern"
"that'll be $10 a pack"
"Sorry this print run will only last a very short time"
what's the point?
$$$
December 13, 2014 11:37 p.m.
The set's still getting a limited print run (though a little more than MMA) and runs you $10 per pack MSRP (which I doubt will stay that way), so I'm skeptical that it'll have significant (>$10 decrease) impact on a staple's value.
December 13, 2014 11:37 p.m.
Yeah, the more I hear about MM2, the worse it sounds. It was very excited at first, but with a limited print run and $10+ per pack (which is freaking ridiculous btw) I don't see the set having much of an impact on high value cards. It could definitely reduce the price of some commons/uncommons like Spell Snare and Serum Visions if they include those in the set, but for high dollar rares the prices will probably remain relatively stable.
December 13, 2014 11:57 p.m.
People need to remember that while modern masters doesn't supply enough product to make highly sought after cards, like bob, gofy, and clique, drop it did reduce the price on pretty much every other card printed in it. Lightning helix went from a 6 dollar card to a 3 dollar card. All the the kamigawa dragons printed in the set were at high prices before the set, and dropped because of mm.
December 14, 2014 12:43 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #7
does that justify 10 a pack though? I didn't mind so much paying 6 a pack last time because of it being way more premium than regular packs but c'mon...10?
December 14, 2014 12:46 a.m.
So noble hierach probably won't reduce in price because it is a very sought after card. But expect a lot of non staple cards to drop in price.
December 14, 2014 12:48 a.m.
You won't be paying 10 a pack unless you go to a store that only sells at suggested price, most stores will sell packs for between 12-20 dollars, I think wizards just raised the price so they could get more money from shops.
December 14, 2014 12:50 a.m.
The whole thing just smells like bullshit. Its a total money grab for Wizards, and won't benefit the average player much at all. I'm pretty damn disappointed.
December 14, 2014 12:54 a.m.
Lowering the price of all but a few cards helps no one.
December 14, 2014 1 a.m.
how many of you honestly bought MMA packs at less than 10 dollars? I live in a big city, and have 5 card stores literally within 10 minutes of my house, and I couldn't find a pack of MMA for less that 12-13 dollars. the MSRP arguement is bullshit.
December 14, 2014 4:17 a.m.
JexInfinite says... #14
I'd rather have Noble Hierarch printed in M16, because at least the core set print runs are massive.
When MM2 comes out, Hierarch will probably have an instantaneous drop, and that is a safe time to buy it. Maybe waiting a week will do you good, but you'll only save <$5. I can't see it going below $40.
December 14, 2014 5:58 a.m.
gnarlicide says... #15
GoofyFoot: the shop by my house in Fort Bragg was selling the last MMA for 8 dollars per pack, and the owner gave a military/student discount. So, i was buying them at around 7.20 per.
If I was to draft it though, it cost somewhere near 30 bucks. we also did a 60 dollar blind sealed event.
all in all, there are shops that actually care about their players' wallets enough to not ruin the fun of a set. They exist, man.
December 14, 2014 6:16 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #16
My LGS is going to be selling this at MSRP, which means that they will immediately be out of stock on release day...
Also, rant.
This product is a huge disappointment. Wizards needs to stop catering to the collectors in the products that are designed for the average player. Being a collector should come with the risk of buying into an unstable product (Anything not on the reserve list), instead of having the assurance that your unstable product is actually built on a pretty firm rock. Also, there's only like 500 true collectors left out there. Why do they get so much damn love when the rest of us are suffering under the oppression what is this awful price gouging and up marking? Wizards doesn't make any money from a collector, I see no reason why they should even be considered in a product like this. What this product says to me is "Hey shop owners, here's your God damned Christmas bonus, thanks for buying all our shit". Actually, that isn't entirely correct. My boss has been trying to get a reserve of MM2 since it's been announced, and we're only allocated one box because of how small we are. Thanks Wizards, for being so kind to the top of the hill.
December 14, 2014 10:48 a.m.
GoofyFoot of the 3 local shops around me 1 will sell at msrp, 1 will gouge the hell out of you (but they have the best selection of singles around) and the last one actually sells a tad below msrp and if you are a regular customer (spending $50-$100/week) you get an even better price. I've been getting KTK packs for $2.85/each and booster boxes at $92. The other shops are all $4/pack $144/box at best. I wasn't around for MM1 but I'm almost positive I'll be buying MM2 boxes at or below the $240 msrp or whatever it is.
December 14, 2014 11:07 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #18
My turn to rant.
Wizards isn't releasing MM2 to increase the supply of Modern staples. If that was their goal, they would make it a larger printing or continue their policy of reprinting staples in Standard-legal sets. Wizards is releasing MM2 for exactly one reason: to make money. This is not a bad thing. It's called business.
Wizards didn't print MM1 to increase supply of Modern staples, either. They did it to promote interest in their Modern format. Spoilers: It worked like a charm. More interest in their new pet format means more people buying more packs, as long as those packs have Modern-playable cards in them. To that end, it's no surprise that Thoughtseize and the fetchlands saw a reprint.
Everything Wizards is doing is part of a carefully planned business model, and we all need to respect it. As long as their success continues, they can continue to produce a quality product for us to play and enjoy.
Remember, if you didn't love the game, you wouldn't be on this website yelling about card prices. Don't try to tell the people making a game you love that they're doing it wrong, because clearly they've been doing something very right for the last 20 years.
December 14, 2014 11:13 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #19
There's nothing wrong with a business doing business things, but when they're advertising it as "A way for modern to become more accessible to players", they're pretty much just doing it wrong. Lying to your player base is a pretty horrible way of making money, regardless of how effective the business model is.
December 14, 2014 11:54 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #20
The only article I saw was the announcement article, which describes it as a great environment for you to draft with your favorite Modern cards. Nowhere does it try to say that the printing is to make the cards more accessible. Can you link to something where Wizards is advertising accessibility?
It's also worth pointing out that reprinting any Modern staple technically makes it more accessible because it offers another way to acquire the card. Goyf, for example, is more accessible than ever from a pure number-of-Goyfs perspective. His demand has just increased disproportionally to his supply.
December 14, 2014 12:15 p.m.
I get why people are complaining about the high msrp and low print run but it's not that big of a deal. First and foremost WOTC is a for profit company and this will be a profitable set. Even if you buy one pack for $10 you have a pretty damn good chance of pulling a $50+ card or multiple $5-$10 cards, if you're not into gambling (busting packs) then deal with buying singles and trading, no need to get all pissy at Wizard's. If anything you should be mad at your LGS since it sounds like a lot of people shop at one that takes advantage of sets like this and doubles the price per pack. And I do see where people think WOTC is misleading customers by saying it's to get more people into modren but they are, I for one will now be able to get enough cards from buying a box or two to either build a deck or sell/trade my pulls for the modern cards i need. Also, I'm perfectly fine with the $10/pack msrp since it is a limited print run, which should make it so big spenders don't buy up all the supply at each shop, leaving some for people who want only a few packs), and frankly i dont want the set to drastically drop values of the reprinted card's because I'm more of a mtg collector than anything and don't want to lose value on staples i already have that may be facing a reprint. I don't know if my rambling made any sense but yeah. .lol
December 14, 2014 12:16 p.m.
Oh, and thinking this will sell at 10$ a pack is a dream.
It is a limited print run, only a select few will get the kind LGS to sell at MSRP.
Packs will probably sell between 20-30 bucks considering the hype.
Just look at what happened with FTV:20
December 14, 2014 12:16 p.m.
Drathen if that's the case for you, you honestly need to find a different shop to buy from. There are plenty of fair shops out there. I talk to the owner of the LGS I buy from quite a bit and his theory is if he keeps his prices low he doesn't make as much bang for his buck but he's realized by doing that he gets loyal, long time customers rather than the ones that rush a shop to buy up 1 product then don't return for another year, if ever. You can say all you want but the fact is there are shop's out there that sell these limited sets at MSRP.
December 14, 2014 12:25 p.m.
While there are some shops that will sell at MSRP, the vast majority will mark it up. And the few that do sell at MSRP will be out of stock almost immediately. Good luck finding a decent number of these packs under $15. Most shops will probably sell for $20-25.
December 14, 2014 1:52 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #25
I think i'm on board with WOTC setting a price cap. (this would be variable to where the shop is)
December 14, 2014 1:57 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #26
My LGS marks up product like that, but not because the owner is greedy. Limited run products aren't just hard to obtain for players; they're also hard to obtain for store owners. When you have to pay a premium just to obtain a product, then you also have to charge a premium when you sell it.
December 14, 2014 2:41 p.m.
i never saw MMA packs sell for under $10 each, part of the justification, (aka hopefuly belief) is that the $10 MSRP is just to avoid people looking at their LGS as a price gouging business looking to screw over players. (hell if you could sell something for $150 or $300 why would you sell it for $150?, LGS have to pay for their stores and stay in business). this allows stores to charge $12-15 and not look as bad, plus with the increased supply its possible they might just stick at $10 a pack for a little bit.
December 14, 2014 5:07 p.m.
Price cap? They just need to print more product. A price cap does nothing except create shortages.
December 14, 2014 7:27 p.m.
the3rdH0kage says... #29
We have 4 stores within about a 30 minute drive and when MM1 came out, one store sold packs for $6.99 (regulars paid $5.99 generally). One charged $7.99 a pack and another charged $8.99 a pack. The forth store didn't open until Theros came out so there was never any Modern Master sealed product in that store. He has already said he is getting MM2 though.
December 14, 2014 8:42 p.m.
To all the people saying "just find another LGS to buy from if yours marks up prices", just think of us small town residents who only have one card shop within an hour or hour-and-a-half from our homes.
December 15, 2014 7:56 p.m.
@Baltec: So much this. You can't expect people living in smaller communities to be able to acquire packs at lower prices.
The reason shops mark up the price on packs is due to the limited supply. If they sell at $7 a pack, then the set goes out of print, they end up losing money when people sell singles to the store. Or they don't sell the packs at all, open all of them, then sell the singles out of them. That's absolute hell on customers who don't buy packs or are trying to trade for individual cards.
And so, with Modern Masters 1, they had to mark up the prices on packs to match the value of the set. They also have to buy from distributors, who would mark up the price.
What I don't like about WotC selling at $10 a pack is the LGSs may end up having to mark up the price on packs to keep up with singles prices. At $15+ per pack, no one may end up buying anything. Especially if that means $45 drafts. At that point, you start approaching the territory of it being cheaper to draft old, out-of-print sets. Why not draft Time Spiral or Stronghold at that point?
Stores then get stuck with a bunch of product they can't sell. That leaves WotC more hesitant to release sets like this. I'm okay if they sell it at $10 per pack (since that's what we were paying for Modern Masters 1). However, they need to sell online directly to people and/or in non-LGS distributors (Target, Walmart, etc.)
December 15, 2014 9:02 p.m.
Ultimaodin says... #32
Honestly I care little of the price if Hierarch is reprinted. Why? Because nobody wants to trade or sell them where I live. I need four. Any reprint that allows for more is good to me.
December 16, 2014 5:09 a.m.
@vance3 The reason we mind it going there even at limited print run is because is cost them the same money to print a Khans Island as it does to print a Force of Will.
December 16, 2014 8:59 a.m.
@sylvannos The entire point of marking them up is because the demand pushes it past the listed MSRP. If there isn't demand for an MM2015 pack at $15, it won't hit that price point in the first place.
I don't think I'll be a buyer at $10 unless the set is just loaded with value. I would like to draft the set, at least once, if the price isn't absurd; but the rest of my MM2015 purchases will likely be singles.
December 16, 2014 9:03 a.m.
@jr92_2000: I wasn't saying it wasn't a supply/demand issue. I was saying why the mark up happened on MMA due to the limited supply and higher demand.
Starting the MSRP at $10 vs. $7 with a limited print run creates the risk of having LGSs losing money if players aren't willing to pay $10 per pack. Or, if distributors to LGSs try to gouge those LGS, they could set the price at $12+.
While at the end of the day, if people don't want to pay $12+ per pack, they won't. However, people with the resources (a la SCG) can afford to take a short-term loss of buying at $12+ per pack, open all of those packs, wait for the print run to be over, then sell the singles at an absurd markup.
That last scenario is what I'm afraid of happening...especially when people saw the first Modern Masters' prices go up after it was released. Of course anyone who isn't living with their head in the sand would pay $50,000 on MM2 packs now if it meant their contents are worth $125,000 in a year.
December 16, 2014 6:33 p.m.
Why exactly is Noble Hierarch worth $60 when in Sylvan Caryatid you get a way better blocker, any color mana you want and it's much harder to remove? I get that Hierarch is a one drop but does it make that much of a difference? $60 compared to $7 and personally I like Caryatid more. Heck I even like Courser of Kruphix more than Hierarch but I admit I've never played Hierarch in a deck.
December 21, 2014 2:46 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #37
Mana ramp + exalted. It's not a 60$ card, it's like a 10$ at max card that used to be overpriced at 20$ until Deathrite Shaman was banned and it skyrocketed up. It was simply decks making the swap and shortage of supply that drove up the price.
I use it in Infect and it kicks ass. Pendelhaven + Noble Hierarch + Ichorclaw Myr
December 21, 2014 3:14 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #38
It used to be overpriced at $45 until Deathrite Shaman got banned.
December 21, 2014 4:27 p.m.
@vance3: There's a big fuck difference between turn two Birthing Pod/Geist of Saint Traft]/Domri Rade/Knight of the Reliquary/Courser of Kruphix/etc. etc. and playing any of those on turn three. Sylvan Caryatid doesn't speed up your turn two...only your turn three and four. Noble Hierarch does speed up your turn two, along with three and four.
That's important when you consider how many games of Modern can end on turn four. If you're on the draw, that means you have to be ready on turn three for your opponent's turn four. Putting pressure with an early three-drop on turn two makes Noble Hierarch much more powerful.
I don't even know if I like Sylvan Caryatid over Birds of Paradise or even Arbor Elf/Llanowar Elves. Coming out on turn two feels really slow and can wind up getting hit by Mana Leak or Spell Snare.
December 21, 2014 10:46 p.m.
And how extremely easy is it to wipe out a 1 toughness with no other defense? A Caryatid can't be zapped by a bolt either. Sounds like you paid big money for a few Hierarch's.
December 21, 2014 10:53 p.m.
@vance3: I don't own any Noble Hierarchs lol. That also doesn't change the fact your opponent MUST answer your turn one mana dork or be staring down a threat they may not be able to deal with at all.
"Dies to Lightning Bolt" is a terrible argument for Sylvan Caryatid over any other one-mana creature that ramps you.
lemmingllama says... #2
I doubt that it will drop a lot in price. Currently it doesn't seem like there will be a lot of MM2 being opened, and with the markup it will likely make the cards about as expensive as they currently are. I wouldn't see it dropping lower than 40, and will likely hover above 50.
December 13, 2014 11:26 p.m.