Modern speculation
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on July 18, 2014, 8:12 p.m. by Didgeridooda
New borders mean that there will be a modern rotation in around 5 years. Thoughts?
TexasDice somebody used to say that to me every time I would say something about magic that he didn't like.... Lol it got so annoying and I never watched the show, so now I say it to people xD
July 18, 2014 8:28 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #5
There may be a new format similar to Modern (in that it starts with the introduction of a new border). But they wouldn't just make all those modern cards theyve been pimping for the last year obsolete.
July 18, 2014 8:30 p.m.
He did say, though, that it would be in 5 years. So the ones in the last year would be 5 years old by then. So maybe there could be a "rotation"? (sorry, I don't actually have much opinion on this)
July 18, 2014 8:36 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #8
I was talking about Modern Masters. Why on earth would they print that, only for Modern to "rotate", leaving those cards only to be played in Legacy? Modern will continue to exist in its current form, but I assume that there will be another format entirely.
July 18, 2014 8:40 p.m.
I figured that up there would display your feeling to this subject. I agree though, they might have a new format but all the modern cards will always be "modern"
July 18, 2014 8:42 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #10
Perhaps a new format to replace the "dying" Legacy?
July 18, 2014 8:44 p.m.
Modern is the new format to take over for legacy. Legacy is not dying; it's not even close. Modern does not rotate. This thread is absurd.
July 18, 2014 8:46 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #12
Haha pretty much. Plus, the amount of fun tools they're printing (Urborg, Chord, Ornithopter, etc) makes me think that they're allowing us to have to tools to make good decks. With new Archetypes of course. Bring back the support pieces, while new deck Archetypes are allowed to be present
July 18, 2014 8:47 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #15
I am talking way down the line. 5 years or so. I do not think that wizards would care about the modern masters set they released 6 years ago. It would keep the money flowing, and who knows modern might be stale by then.
5 years is a long time.
July 18, 2014 8:54 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #16
I don't think the border change is dramatic enough to warrant a new format. The 8th Edition card change was a total make over while M15's border change was just to combat counterfeiting
July 18, 2014 8:56 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #17
@Didgeridooda You may have heard that Modern is defined to contain all cards printed in the new frame. While this is more or less correct, it is not the proper definition. Modern is defined as every card printed in a major set from 8th Edition onwards, Time Spiral included. A new border does not mean that we are suddenly using that as our reference point.
July 18, 2014 9:05 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #18
That is not why I said this. I just feel that time lines up. Modern has been around for almost 5 years. I think that this format will become stale after too long, so they will do something to combat that. Wizards has been increasingly looking at long term sustainability, and I felt this would be something they might do.
July 18, 2014 9:22 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #19
Modern is closer to 3 years old than 5, and WotC will probably combat staleness by banning and unbanning cards as others come into the card pool. But I still don't think it'll become stale too quickly, just look at Legacy, which has been around since 1997...then look at Extended
July 18, 2014 9:31 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #20
You guys don't think an almost 10 year rotation is a reasonable thing?
July 18, 2014 9:40 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #21
well the whole point of modern is that it doesn't rotate
July 18, 2014 9:45 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #22
How does wizards define modern?
I looked, and newest constructed format is what I found. I did not find wizards saying that the point of modern was to not rotate.
July 18, 2014 10:07 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #24
Ahh thank you. So I guess I will instead agree with you guys that said a new format to "replace" it will happen in 5 years instead.
July 18, 2014 10:24 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #25
If Maro, or whomever at WoTC, ever decides that Modern, or even Legacy for that matter, should rotate cards, I'm taking a flight to punch him in the face.
Since that will never happen, I'll instead spend the cash I would have on a plane ticket to purchase Modern and Legacy singles.
July 18, 2014 10:36 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #26
@Didgeridooda as per my earlier comment, I don't think the design change is dramatic enough to warrant a new kind of format. It still looks like an 8th Edition card for the most part, while 8th Edition cards are immediately noticeable from earlier printings
July 18, 2014 10:56 p.m.
Just to be nit picky and stir things up... I will point out that in the link you provided, HarbingerJK, under the basic points of deck construction for Modern, Wizards states that you are to have a "60-card deck minimum", a "4-copy limit (except basic lands), and include "Only cards from sets using the modern card frame (which began with Mirrodin and Eighth Edition)". So according to wizards own words, Modern is a non-rotating format but the cards with the M15 boarder should not be legal because they do not contain the modern borders and there has been no update to the rules changing that. You may have said that they look very similar to the modern boarders, but that means you have at least acknowledged that they are not actually the same, so does that mean you now have to rethink your previous statements? lol
July 18, 2014 11:45 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #28
nope, because the only reason Wizards made the new card format was to avoid counterfeiting, not as a special upgrade. I'd still say they are along the same lines as the 8th Edition type, and I don't think people will be talking about the M15 changes for years to come at the same significance we talk about the 8th Edition...okay, I do want to rethink the statement: the M15 changes aren't dramatic enough to warrant any special treatment or thought as far as formats go. Only time will tell I guess
July 18, 2014 11:59 p.m.
If Wizards tries to "rotate" Modern, they will have a full on riot on their hands. So many players drop hundreds and even thousands of dollars on Modern decks, for the express reason that they DON'T rotate. I, for one, would completely stop playing.
July 19, 2014 12:09 a.m.
Basically, what I'm saying is: there's no way they would try it.
July 19, 2014 12:09 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #31
Didgeridooda keep in mind that modern is designed for people who hate the idea of rotation. Rotation in modern would do nothing but piss people off and loose players. I for one would be pissed as hell if suddenly, Liliana of the Veil Verdant Catacombs and Tarmogoyf all became instantly un-usable because some douche bag thought modern should rotate. (Not a personal attack towards u of course, but just saying)
July 19, 2014 12:21 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #32
abenz419 what u fail to realize is that the new frames are the "Modern" frames from this point on.
July 19, 2014 12:24 a.m.
lol... but according to wizards all that matters is whether or not they contain the modern boarder. It's doesn't matter if the boarder change was just to prevent counterfeiting or for some other reason and it doesn't matter if the changes are something people are going to talk about for years to come or not. It also doesn't matter how drastic the changes may or may not be. Just that they contain the "MODERN BOARDER", which is not the same as the M15 boarder.
Basically what they're saying in those bullet points in that link you posted is that, in order to tell if you have a legal deck constructed for the Modern format just ask yourself... "do you have a deck that is a minimum of 60-cards?".... "do you have a maximum of 4-copies of any one card other than basic lands?".... and "do your cards contain the modern boarder?" (or do they share a name with a card printed with a modern boarder... for reprints of cards originally from before 8th). If you answer "YES" to all of those questions then your deck is legal. If you answered "NO" to any of those questions then your deck is not legal. So, going solely based on what wizards said, I've determined that M15 cards are not Modern legal, lol. So while it may not rotate, it's also not changing unless there is a return to the modern boarder... haha!
July 19, 2014 12:26 a.m.
Also, to the people who've mentioned that wizards wouldn't reprint modern staples if they were starting a new format or if modern was rotating. Well, because of the current rules any card printed without a "modern boarder" would still be legal in Modern, IF, it shared a name with a card that was modern legal because it had a "modern boarder". So that means if the M15 bordered cards really weren't modern legal then any reprints of cards that currently are modern legal could still be used, like Chord of Calling for example. So they could continue to promote the modern format and make card accessibility easier with reprings and start a new format at the same time.
July 19, 2014 12:32 a.m.
@APPLE01DOJ What your failing to realize is that, that's not true. It clearly states that the modern frame began with Mirrodin and 8th edition. Anything that is not the same as the borders they began using in those sets, by definition, is not the "modern frame".
Also that wouldn't make sense if the new frames were now the "modern frame". The frame used in 8th edition through Journey into Nyx is clearly not the same as the one introduced with M15, therefore they are two different frames. According to wizards own words you can only use cards with the "modern frame" in the Modern format. If the M15 borders are now the "Modern frame" then logically the 8th edition borders are not because they're distinctly different, and by rule that would mean that anything that does not contain the M15 border would not be legal. So that would effectively make Modern contain only 1 set as of the M15 release lol.
July 19, 2014 12:45 a.m.
HarbingerJK says... #36
I'm going to summon Rhadamanthus to give his two cents on this one, since he's DCI certified for rules. And abenz419 I think you're taking the M15 card border, and Modern format rules thing a little too literally here. I guess WotC is going to have to clarify for yall.
July 19, 2014 1:07 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #37
@abenz419, referring to comment #12, Why the hell would Wizards reprint Modern cards like Chord of Calling , Darksteel Citadel , Raise the Alarm , and Ornithopter if they weren't Modern legal?!?!
Your logic is flawed and splitting hairs.
July 19, 2014 1:12 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #40
Lol! I'm not drunk enough! Founder's Dirty Bastard Scottish Style Ale is a cool 8.5% ABV with a creamy, rounded finish.
July 19, 2014 1:54 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #41
he has to be, he can't possible be that dense.
The term modern itself is a reference to "the now".
of or relating to the present or recent times as opposed to the remote past.
July 19, 2014 1:54 a.m.
HarbingerJK says... #42
to be honest, every forum post I see abenz419 comment on, he seems to be trolling
July 19, 2014 2:39 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #43
Also, abenz419, it's spelled "border", not "boarder". Read over what you write before you can't take it back.
July 19, 2014 8:21 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #44
Tagging myself for quotation purposes whenever I have the time.
July 19, 2014 8:44 a.m.
@aeonstoremyliver If you were paying attention you'll see that I directly answered that question. The reason they can reprint modern staples in the new border and have them be legal in a format that requires the "modern border" is because they share a name with a card that is currently modern legal. Just like you can use the Ravnica version of Chord of Calling in standard even though it's technically not part of the current standard block. No flawed logic at all... just stupid people ignoring what is written.
@APPLE01DOJ also the definition of the word modern does not define how the Modern format is run. If what your saying is correct then only things "realated to the present or recent times as opposed to the remote paste" would be legal. Since you can't argue that there was a new border with the M15 release that would be "the now". So what your suggesting, again, is that only the M15 borders should be legal because anything containing the 8th edition borders would be different than "the now" and therefore would not be modern legal since it doesn't relate to the present lol.
Also if you looked in my first response I said I was just bringing it up to be nit picky and stir the pot. Everyone seems to have immediately gotten defensive and if I attacked them and now can't come up with an explanation for why M15 bordered cards would be legal in modern when WIZARDS clearly states only "modern bordered" cards are legal. The only excuse I've gotten is "that's stupid", and anyone even slightly competent will tell you that's not a valid argument, to anything! I was joking around at first but considering it's printed on WIZARDS website that only "modern bordered" cards are legal in the modern format and no one can actually come up with a valid reason for why the M15 bordered cards would be legal (other than their personal opinions), I'm beginning to think I may have stumbled onto something lol.
July 19, 2014 11:39 a.m.
@thispersonisagenius too bad your name is not accurate or else you would have seen where I corrected my spelling in later comments after I realized that I had misspelled it in haste. Please take your own advise, you'll look less foolish that way.
July 19, 2014 11:41 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #47
@fluffybunnypants You might as well quote the entire thread. Read the original post. :)
July 19, 2014 noon
GlistenerAgent says... #48
@abenz419 The Wizards website lists all expansions whose cards are legal in Modern. Here's the link:
Modern Format Deck Construction
I think we're done here.
July 19, 2014 12:02 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #49
I was really bored, and was thinking that a 10 year rotation might be something they work with. The forums were dead, and I wanted to start some topic to keep them moving a bit. I still think they will rotate/make a new format (same thing) in around 5 years.
July 19, 2014 12:09 p.m.
The Modern border is not the definitive mark of whether or not a card is Modern-legal. Look at the Time Spiral block. Those cards all have different borders (some have the old pre-8th edition border, some have futuristic borders). Those cards are all Modern legal, regardless of whether or not they have been reprinted in Modern borders. A card's border does not, in any way, shape, or form, define its format legality. It is only an easy way to make generalizations about whether or not a card is legal. I run into this problem all the time with my 8Rack deck. You would be amazed at how many people refuse to believe that The Rack is Modern legal, JUST BECAUSE OF THE STUPID BORDERS. So if we could just end this thread and move on that would be great.
TexasDice says... #2
July 18, 2014 8:18 p.m.