Narset, Transcendant
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on March 4, 2015, 11:08 a.m. by fluffybunnypants
Damn son, that loyalty count.
Idk about you guys but i dont like having a strict spoiler thread its too difficult to find the conversation you want and sometimes it goes off topic etc etc
March 4, 2015 11:14 a.m.
Just post what you want even if the discussion happened a few pages ago. We hate having thousands of threads posted about the same card during spoiler season. Hence the stacked thread.
March 4, 2015 11:15 a.m.
But thats just hardly a discussion if you just post an opinion about any card at anytime ritht in the middle of someones conversation idk i dont post threads during spoiler season but i do read them and comment sometimes but im just not a fan of the sticky thread personally thought i would put in my 2 cents
March 4, 2015 11:19 a.m.
I think it is okay to have the sticky thread for general discussion about the cards, but I wouldn't mind separate threads for more detailed discussions of a card's impact in specific formats.
March 4, 2015 11:23 a.m.
No. That's exactly what we're trying to avoid. Before the sticky thread the forums were absolute carnage during spoiler season. We'd have like 5 posts on Treasure Cruise for example. Posted day after day in every forum etc. It was horrible.
Now if you want to posit why a card would be good in a certain format like modern that's a different story and does belong elsewhere. There's a difference between saying 'look at this new card, I really like it, it's good' (for the spoiler thread) and 'look at this new card, I think it's just what jeskai control needed in modern because it lacked blah blah blah' (that goes in the modern forum). If you want to take the discussion further than that's fair enough. But if you want to generically talk about a card then keep it spoiler thread.
However what we desperately DO NOT want is multithreads on the same topic.
March 4, 2015 11:26 a.m.
Damn that art looks sick. I've just found my new favourite. Imagine a foil one!
March 4, 2015 11:35 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #12
we can still use this as a way to discuss the individual impact this card may or may not have
March 4, 2015 11:41 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #14
Honestly the one Thread fits all approach is stupid for Spoilers but the powers that be have weird pet peeves on this site.
On topic:
Narset is solid but not amazing. She's kind of a reverse Domri Rade. She protects herself with a high starting loyalty like Chandra, Pyromaster and will replace herself some of the time. But she really doesn't affect the board and her main value will be the tempo and life buffer she gives if the opponent cares about casting non-creature spells.
March 4, 2015 1:06 p.m.
Dalektable says... #15
Wow, she's surprisingly good. Seems like a pretty safe include in UW Control, might be good. Not as good as Jace was in the deck, but ya know.
March 4, 2015 1:06 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #16
This is...disgusting? It's like Domri Rade for a control deck.
March 4, 2015 1:10 p.m.
The influx of threads during spoiler season was a concern voiced by many users, not just epoch and I.
March 4, 2015 1:15 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #19
For the minus, Dig Through Time or Treasure Cruise...into something else like a board wipe...seems good. Maybe it doesn't affect the board directly but it certainly can have a big impact.
March 4, 2015 1:16 p.m.
InnerFlame says... #20
She is probably best in patriot....but, what about her in bant with Courser of Kruphix?
March 4, 2015 1:18 p.m.
deckFAMOUSWATERMELON says... #22
I'm not going to lie, I'm disappointed. She has some card draw (booooooooooring) and her ult is A) Useless against creature heavy decks and B) an overcomplicated way of shutting down the opponent. The rebound is pretty fun and the only reason I would play her (besides having a ridiculous amount of starting loyalty).
March 4, 2015 3:44 p.m.
Guys. If you're just going to talk about her generically then I will close this. We have a stacked thread for a reason. If you want generic discussion - take it there.
March 4, 2015 3:51 p.m.
The Doctor says... #24
I really don't think you guys are realizing just how strong Narset is.
She has an absurdly high starting loyalty giving her a really good standing ground against creature heavy decks.
Her + ability is exactly what control needs right now, and her - ability only fuels the fury that is card draw (Hello Jace's Ingenuity).
While her ultimate ability isn't exactly superb, it shuts down A LOT of decks, and will single-handedly win you a control mirror.
March 4, 2015 3:52 p.m.
The Doctor says... #25
ChiefBell Realistically each "Powerhouse" card like this should have it's own thread. There is no reason that it should be mucked up in the general thread where people are talking about everything when the focused discussion is on Narset alone.
March 4, 2015 3:54 p.m.
Like the entire spoiler sticky thread is about her at the moment.
March 4, 2015 3:59 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #28
The Doctor She'll probably be decent in standard, but elsewhere, she is totally outclassed. And she doesn't have much flavor. Her abilities are pretty standard for planeswalkers.
March 4, 2015 4:01 p.m.
The Doctor says... #29
At the moment, sure.
However something else will be spoiled, and the discussion will weave towards that.
If there are individual focused threads on let's say, at least mythics then it's much more focused and deep discussion.
March 4, 2015 4:02 p.m.
I'm not really here to have a discussion about the rules and procedures we've set up. I'm only here to explain what they are. If you REALLY want to argue about it then start a thread asking for clarification.
March 4, 2015 4:05 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #31
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole single thread idea was probably born from a "We have to do something" conversation that yielded no decent options. I find it hard to believe that putting all of the discussion for the only set currently being spoiled into one clusterf*ck of a thread- one that's already sorted into the "Spoilers and Rumors" forum- was actually seen as the best option. Let's either come up with a reasonable alternative, or learn how to use thread titles to determine which ones interest us and live with the e-clutter.
March 4, 2015 4:08 p.m.
Well the problem is no one uses the search bar and checks to see if the discussion they're about to post has already happened. In the absence of that we created an easily visible thread. Therefore yeah, it WAS seen as the best option. We wouldn't have a problem if there was one for Narset, one for a dragon, one for this, one for that etc. The problem is that before we did stickies we would literally have the same card posted about over, and over, and over again. And not just on the day it was spoiler - for the next few days too. Therefore creating one easily visible overarching thread was a damn fine idea.
March 4, 2015 4:12 p.m.
The Doctor says... #33
I'm sure I'm not alone, but I just don't see the point of having an entire sub-forum dedicated to spoilers if it's all going to be clustered into one thread anyway.
At that point, well, what's the point of even having the sub-forum?
Perhaps if there was a way to implement a resetting up/dowvote system similar to reddit? That way if there was a repeat thread, and it received no input then it just wouldn't show up in the "What's trending" section, or something?
I'm just throwing stuff out there, because personally the current solution seems rather lazy.
March 4, 2015 4:17 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #34
Isn't this a thread about Narset and not about forum organisation? Oh right, it is...
March 4, 2015 4:18 p.m.
Yeh it was. And I was saying that it would be beneficial to avoid posting threads about Narset when literally the entire spoiler thread stickied on the front page is about Narset. It was necessary. Hence me saying - please avoid if possible.
March 4, 2015 4:20 p.m.
I didn't even notice her loyalty I was so busy gawking at her abilities...thank you fluffybunnypants for bringing this to our attention lol.
That -2 is insane with any kind of draw spell, not just Treasure Cruise. The thing I really like about it is that it's just the next time you cast an instant or sorcery. It doesn't cease at the end of the turn.
I'm going out on a limb and calling this now as Vintage and Legacy playable. Her +1 synergizes with Brainstorm and the other blue cantrips, her -2 just screams "Win the game," and her ultimate shuts down entire archetypes. Best of all, that starting loyalty means she can tank Batterskull hits and Lightning Bolts.
March 4, 2015 4:25 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #39
Oh I never use that cause I didn't know it checked the forums thought it just looked up the cards in people's comments on their decks.
March 4, 2015 4:42 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #40
As a Modern player allow me to clarify to those who don't understand the power of Narset outside of Standard. Standard, by and large has become and increasingly creature dominated format. However, Modern and Legacy (though I make no claim she'll see Legacy play) possess stronger non-creature spells. We have Lightning Bolt and Cryptic Command.
Now imagine casting a Cryptic Command for free because it has Rebound. There. Argument over.
However, if you still not convinced allow me to present to you, Ajani Vengeant who sees some play in Modern Jeskai Control. Narset is strictly better in every single way. She can take a bolt after her -2. She doubles your burn output without the need for a Snapcaster Mage and she gives Jeskai Control another source of card advantage. Control decks love card advantage. Ajani, he taps things, he burns things and then he dies. His ultimate is useful, but he doesn't possess the resilience to stick around even in a control deck. Narset does.
Her ultimate is icing on the cake. You don't even need the icing because this cake is delicious and perfect without it. And while certain decks in Modern can utterly avoid her ultimate, it becomes really hard to remove things when you can't play your Path to Exile or Abrupt Decay.
March 4, 2015 4:57 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #41
I guess the multiple-thread thing never bothered me since its easy to skim (much more so than blocks of text in a giant thread), but I honestly don't really care that much. What matters is that Narset will definitely find a home or two in Standard. As far as Modern or Legacy, I would be talking out of my ass.
March 4, 2015 4:57 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #43
She will certainly see Modern play. Rebounding a Cryptic seems insane.
March 4, 2015 5:06 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #44
But for four mana...? Including white?Not to mention that if you rebound cryptic, it can't be for the countering, and that's it's main purpose.
March 4, 2015 5:18 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #45
FAMOUSWATERMELON Modern has everything you need. Mana fixing isn't hard and drawing cards and returning permanents is useful as hell. Even tapping is useful. People assume Cryptic Commander is always a hard counter, but it isn't and doesn't have to be. Her -2 really shines when you consider burn spells in Jeskai control. And what do you mean by: "But four mana?" As in her cost? Her cost is perfectly fine. Actually it's better than fine because she doesn't get hit by Abrupt Decay. Did you not see my post on the previous page?
March 4, 2015 5:45 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #46
The reason that I say Cryptic Command is a counterspell is because that's it's most common use. And she maybe shines in burn, but A) modern burn decks tend to be mono-red, and if they might splash one color, I doubt that they'll splash two just for this and B) quick burn decks have better things to do on T4. In fact on T4, they should already have won.
You bring up Jeskai decks, but most jeskai decks I've seen have not had much burn, just a lot of countering and Path to Exile. Most of them are U/W that just splash red for Splinter Twin and Lightning Bolt. She might have an impact on Modern, but I doubt it will be a big one.
And finally, I never said that she was bad, because she's (obviously) not. I just think that WoTC could have made an effort towards her flavor, because her abilities just aren't so interesting (drawing cards and copying spells). They're very common abilities, and I feel like she deserved something a bit more unique.
March 4, 2015 5:58 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #47
I never said she would see play in burn. She's built for a control deck. Jeskai control would love her. Rebounding burn and paths means being able to hit Abzan decks harder. And no... what are you even talking about? Splashing red for twin? That's a different deck completely.
This is the list I would slot her into. I would even build her into a tempo deck so that you could double Serum Visions or Vapor Snag. I would even put her into Esper Control.
Rebound, I'm beginning to see is an underrated mechanic because its a mechanic that forces effects to be inflated in mana cost. Narset solves this, at least to me. I see nothing wrong with her abilities flavour wise. What would you have given her?
March 4, 2015 6:06 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #48
I have always been disappointed in Ajani.
Starting at 6 Loyalty is a big deal, For those saying it doesn't protect itself you are playing Control wrong, I would expect that Jeskai Control in a future metagame would maindeck or Sideboard some number of Wraths. Getting to the point where you could play this let it get hit than wrath your opponents board and rebound that wrath puts you really far ahead.
Ajani isn't particularly good in attrition battles which is pretty much what Abzan in Modern is, Narset is.
As for Jeskai decks not running Burn as FAMOUSWATERMELON Stated is just plain wrong, Most decks maindeck 4 Bolt, 2-4 Helix and 4 Elyze. Gaining Card Advantage is the primary focus of control.
I think I will play this card in Modern Control over Ajani.
As for Standard I wouldn't hate this card becoming a Pseudo Jace from last standard, The card is playable, Nuff said.
March 4, 2015 6:48 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #49
I am going to go on Record and say that Narset is officially the 3rd most powerful planeswalker ever printer. That's right, Elspeth, Knight-Errant just lost her bronze.
ChiefBell says... #2
This has already been posted in the thread dedicated to spoilers which is you know.... stickied at the top.
March 4, 2015 11:09 a.m.