Nekusar Players Rejoice
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 23, 2015, 11:47 a.m. by jwe94
I just...I mean Wizards just said "The price of Timetwister got you down? Here yah go!"
Sure it exiles itself and ends the turn but that is easily remedied by playing it last.
NoPantsParade says... #3
I love that art. Wouldn't mind getting a foil copy of that thing.
June 23, 2015 11:50 a.m.
I really like it being printed in this set. Nothing says "origins of magic" like 'reprinting' the power 9.
Although ending the turn does sort of totally kill the full point of Timetwister, but I guess it has to be like this, because Wizards hates storm.
June 23, 2015 11:59 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 is correct. This tacks Time Stop onto Timetwister, so all the Nekusar triggers get exiled and never resolve.
June 23, 2015 12:02 p.m.
Great art. It'll help my big ass blue artifact EDH deck out against my friend's Skullbriar deck that uses a lot of dredge and scavenge. It's good against mill too.
June 23, 2015 12:07 p.m.
Justin_Bop says... #8
Just to point out, this card only ends the turn on your own turn. Give this instant speed, and then it doesn't exile itself, it doesn't end the turn, it triggers Nekusar, and it allows for storm to combo off possible. I wonder if we'll get "reprints" of other power nine cards? Obviously way, way, WAY less power, but with the same concept as them like this card. Possible like for Black Lotus a card that works like Lotus Bloom? That would be awesome.
June 23, 2015 12:09 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #11
I don't think this card will be relevant in standard because I can't imagine the standard deck that wants this effect... But part of me just wants to go off with this and Chasm Skulker.
June 23, 2015 12:23 p.m.
TheRedMage I think it can be thrown into Blue Devotion that wants to use utility and aggressive creatures as opposed to counterspells and instants you want to hold up.
June 23, 2015 12:27 p.m.
meecht.... Are you sure about that... The spell will remove everything from the stack, but triggers which occur during the resolution of a spell do not get added to the stack until AFTER the spell/ability is finished resolving.
As such, the triggers should be added to the stack at the first opportunity during the next turn (opponent's upkeep)
June 23, 2015 12:32 p.m.
We'll probably see a ruling about how draw triggers will work off of it when we get release notes.
At any rate, I like this card for my Talrand EDH deck. A cheap way to refill my hand with spells I was gonna cast on my opponent's turn anyway? Sign me up. Might even make me put Quicken in the mainboard.
June 23, 2015 12:36 p.m.
@erabel - EDIT: oops.... ignore this post. - There are no discard triggers.
June 23, 2015 12:41 p.m. Edited.
00xtremeninja says... #16
finally some more things from Origins to get me excited. Love this card. It's not directly a Timetwiser, but close enough.
June 23, 2015 12:43 p.m.
If draw triggers work... it will combine quite nicely with Sphinx's Tutelage.
They draw 7, and mill 14+... probably a few more.
June 23, 2015 12:44 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #18
The Nekusar, the Mindrazer trigger will still happen and will resolve during your turn.
When cards say "end the turn" what they really mean is "exile all spells and abilities on the stack and go straight to the cleanup step". So what happens if you have Nekusar, the Mindrazer is:
- You resolve Day's Undoing. Nekusar triggers seven times for each opponent. Day's Undoing finishes resolving, and the cleanup step begins.
- During cleanup, players discard to hand size, damage is removed from permanents and "until end of turn" effects end. The game checks if triggers are waiting to be put on the stack, finds a bunch of Nekusar triggers, and has you put them on the stack in whichever order you want. The stack is resolved normally and players get priority between the resolution of each trigger, which doesn't usually happen during the cleanup step, but it does in this case (it's the "madness rule").
- Because players got priority during cleanup, another cleanup step happens. If nothing that caused triggers or stuff like that to happen took place, the turn ends.
June 23, 2015 12:45 p.m. Edited.
@Rayenous - I was just going by what others have said elsewhere, but looking at the rules is making me wonder. Specifically:
713. Ending the Turn
713.2. No player gets priority during this process, so triggered abilities are not put onto the stack. If any triggered abilities have triggered between the spell or ability resolving and the cleanup step ending, those abilities are put onto the stack during the cleanup step, then the active player gets priority and players can cast spells and activate abilities. Then there will be another cleanup step before the turn finally ends. If no triggered abilities have triggered during this process, no player gets priority during the cleanup step. See rule 514, "Cleanup Step."
It looks like draw triggers (Nekusar, the Mindrazer, Underworld Dreams, etc.) would go on the stack during the Cleanup Step.
June 23, 2015 12:49 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #20
When a new card gets printed with an effect that we haven't seen in a while (in this case: ending the turn) sometimes that section of the rules gets a major overhaul - it happened with Convoke and Delve, so waiting for the release notes is probably good.
With the rules being what they are though, this interaction works as described in my previous post.
June 23, 2015 12:49 p.m. Edited.
TheRedMage - That sounds right. I remember someone asking something similar to this with Tamiyo, the Moon Sage's Ultimate + something that sets your hand size to... 5, I think it was.
During Cleanup, if you have more than 5 cards you discard... Emblem triggers, people get priority... if you return the card to your hand (it's a may), then you must, again, discard something during an additional clean-up... this can repeat many times... but because it is a 'may', you must eventually leave the discarded card in your graveyard.
June 23, 2015 12:51 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #22
@ Rayenous : that sounds unlikely. No cards as far as I know "set" your hand size, they either increase / reduce it by some number (like Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Gnat Miser, Thought Nibbler) or remove it alotgether (like Spellbook, Library of Leng, Reliquary Tower). Having no maximum hand size trumps any increase / reduction. That clause was likely added to the Tamiyo, the Moon Sage emblem in part so that you can't make loops like you described.
June 23, 2015 12:58 p.m. Edited.
TheRedMage: Two cards that I know of actively set your maximum hand size, but both set it to 2: Recycle and Null Profusion.
June 23, 2015 1:11 p.m.
I think the card in the original question was Cursed Rack.
June 23, 2015 1:18 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #26
Just play Leyline of Anticipation and play it on their turn over and over again.
June 23, 2015 2:34 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #27
@ mathimus55: I am not sure if that is what you are trying to suggest, but remember that Day's Undoing only ends the turn if you played it during your turn.
June 23, 2015 2:53 p.m.
mathimus55 says... #28
People being worried about it exiling itself or that you won't be able to use any of the card you drew while the other player has their new 7. Any of the draw backs really. If the turn isn't ended then the spell won't exile itself, solving the issues of not being able to abuse it
June 23, 2015 2:57 p.m.
Blizzicane says... #29
CheeseBro - Thanks for the tag! This had to be the biggest surprise for me being a Nekusar player and be unable to afford Timetwister but idk if this card will have a spot in my deck mainly because I can't chain wheels together unless I have Leyline which makes up most of my wins. However, I can't deny it is very powerful so it may just replace Time Reversal which I rarely ever am able to chain it due to its cost and no synergy with my discard effects. I love how Nekusar gets a usable card made as if it was specifically for him nearly every new set. :3
June 24, 2015 6:15 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #30
It's now been made official that his triggers will be placed onto the stack and then be removed during cleanup before resolving. It's a nombo. There is a link in the main thread.
June 24, 2015 6:22 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #33
Epochalyptik sorry. Too difficult when I'm running around and on my mobile.
June 24, 2015 6:49 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #34
Hmm... Tabak's comment is interesting since it seems to contradict the rules as far a I can tell (the relevant rule is rule 713.2: No player gets priority during this process [the end-the-turn process], so triggered abilities are not put onto the stack. If any triggered abilities have triggered between the spell or ability resolving and the cleanup step ending, those abilities are put onto the stack during the cleanup step, then the active player gets priority and players can cast spells and activate abilities. [...])
At this point I don't think it's worth to try to figure this out anymore until we get the release notes. I am sure those will settle this questiononce and for all.
June 25, 2015 1:09 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #35
Tabak has further gone on to say that the rules are being changed.
So, in theory, if you had Day's Undoing NOW, Nekusar's triggers would go on the stack in clean-up.
But by the time Day's Undoing is released on the 17th (and pre-released on teh 10th), the rules will have changed so they won't go on the stack.
June 25, 2015 1:19 p.m.
Blizzicane says... #36
WHAT!!!! seriously... Well I guess I know whats not going into my deck. :C
June 26, 2015 3:21 a.m.
TheRedMage says... #37
Ah, I see. I am not surprised, rules that have not changed in a while often get optimized a bit when a new card that may use them comes into the picture (see: changing Delve and Convoke from a mana cost reduction to an alternate way of paying for a cost before M15)
Rasta_Viking29 says... #2
This card ends the turn before Nekusar's ability can trigger.
June 23, 2015 11:49 a.m.