New Dual Lands
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Aug. 30, 2015, 6:33 a.m. by Jimmy_Chinchila
Ok this is awesome, new dual lands. They enter tapped unless you control 2 or more basic lands. Only allied colors so far.
Canopy Vista: plains forest
Cinder Glade: mountain forest
Smoldering Marsh: swamp mountain
Sunken Hollow: island swamp
Prairie Stream: plains island
Sorry no photos, I'm not too code savvy. This is gonna be the best set in a while methinks...
Harashiohorn says... #3
These are some of the worst rare lands to come out in a long time. No eternal format would ever want to run any of these. Most modern decks only run about 4 basics, most legacy run 4 or fewer basics, Most commander decks only run about 5 basics, and Most vintage decks don't need better mana fixing. While these lands are fetch-able they still are worse than shocklands, fetchlands, basic lands, filter lands, dual lands, pain lands, and fast lands. These will be resigned to sit in a corner with their sad friends the "slow fetches".
August 30, 2015 10:09 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #4
I don't see them as bad really. Worse than shocks? absolutely. Better than normal lands we get? IMO YES. They instantly fix your draw as long as you have fetches available (from a standpoint that is insane fixing) and in a strictly 2 color deck you could safely run 4 of these without too much concern due to a higher basic count. No, they aren't going in many if any 3 color decks but I refuse to believe they are without use.
August 30, 2015 10:54 a.m.
Harashiohorn - You know what was the most recent "worst dual lands ever"? Scry lands. And look how they turned out. Standard All-Star, Casual home run, and occasional Modern appearance. Let's play with them first before rushing to judgments.
August 30, 2015 10:57 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #6
Harashiohorn nah they're pretty good. It's not everyday you get a fetchable dual. Standard and Limited will play them heavily and they could find a place in Modern.
August 30, 2015 11:01 a.m.
Harashiohorn says... #7
The thing is though is what 4 lands are these going to replace? In a dual color deck you typically have 4 fetches (which will always be safe), 4 Shocklands, 4 Basic lands, and then either 4 more basics, 4 fast lands, Exrta fetches, and/or 4 single check lands. In theory single check lands are much much better than these lands, but they can't be fetched. The thing is though, I would have to be running over 8 fetches before I would need to have another fetchable land, at which point do I really need these new slow lands at all? If I'm only running 4 fetches I would never fetch a slow land early because it's tapped, and later on I probably don't need to grab a non-basic since my mana is already nice and fixed, and basics can't get Ghost Quartered or Tectonic Edgeed. There's just no need for these lands. The deck in which they would in theory be best is in a 5 color deck where you are happy that they just check for 2 basic lands of any color, and you can fetch them easily, but what good 5 color decks are there in eternal formats right now? And which of them can consistently hit 2 basic lands by turn 3? or even turn 6?
August 30, 2015 11:02 a.m.
They'll be Standard all stars. Bonkers in limited. They'll see play in the vast majority of EDH decks. There are very few hyper competitive EDH decks with 5 or fewer basics out there, so these are great replacements for ABUR duals. I doubt their validity in Modern or Legacy, but do we really need anything to replace Shocks/ABURs? No. That's called Power Creep, and it's not good for a game.
August 30, 2015 1:56 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #9
They won't see play in modern or eternal but for sure in standard and EDH.
August 30, 2015 2:51 p.m.
So, Harashiohorn what 'new' type of land would have come up with for BFZ that would work in the eternal formats?
August 30, 2015 3:46 p.m.
Harashiohorn says... #11
@ snotice
Finishing ANY futuresight cycle which would still be new (Grove of the Burnwillows River of Tears Nimbus Maze. You could also go with some kind of wedge lands, ie "FlamingTree" which taps for Red or green and comes in untapped only if you control an island. Finish off the manland cylce. Extra Utility lands ie: "Volcanic Mountain", Tap add 1 red to your mana pool, 1 red mana tap, sacrafice volcanic mountain, deal 2 damage to target creature or player. Double-Mana adding Depletion lands (2 mana from a land like Pinecrest Ridge to name a few.
August 30, 2015 4:26 p.m.
Grove of the Burnwillows and Nimbus Maze cycles would be awesome. I guess time will tell if we do get some of these lands. It seems to me that only the manlands would fit the Zendikar theme though.
August 30, 2015 4:43 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #13
quesobueno123 that thread is 9 pages long. I thought it would be easier to have different threads for different cycles. No one wants to scroll through 400 comments to see if what they wanna talk about has been discussed.
As far as the usefulness of the cards, I think it's silly to speculate where they'll see play. Everyone talked shit about the scry lands and Mana Confluence and they've seen plenty of play. Another dual land that I can fetch and doesn't cost life in the mid to late game sounds pretty useful. Sometimes you need that second color and paying 3 life (fetch and shock) isn't an option.
August 30, 2015 4:57 p.m.
Harashiohorn says... #14
So first, people thought Mana Confluence would be a better City of Brass and it pretty much was. And second, people used scrylands because the were forced to in standard, outside of standard they were only rarely used, and that was because they have an intrinsically useful ability to some decks. Fetch-ability clearly isn't enough of a draw on a card alone, or else people would play the Slow-fetches, and requiring two basic land cards is backbreakingly hard in all eternal formats, meaning you have a 9-12 slotting slow land, which nobody wants. In standard people will probably play with these lands only as a last resort, and only because there are no other options for mana fixing. People would want these less than fetchlands or painlands, so only if no other lands come after we lose the pain and fetchlands will these be useful.
August 30, 2015 5:56 p.m.
The big difference in this discussion is how fast and competitive you wish to run your deck. For me, I love these lands because in all 4 of my EDH decks I run 15 basics. I know, for me spending mega money on ABUR lands or the enemy fetches is crazy to me. I think this move was good move on the part of wizards.
It's a change in the way non-basics interact in a deck and change can be tough on those who wish to keep or improve even more upon the status-quo.
Harashiohorn: I am with you on seeing some of the lands you spoke of because they are strong and worth a reprint. It's really just a question of what block and how far down the road will it be before we do see those lands.
August 30, 2015 6:21 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #16
Great so we'll end up pulling boosters like the Origins painlands and be pissed. Like ooh this pack has a Prairie Stream and that one has a full art Arid Mesa... At least they'll be cheap to get playsets of. I dunno, someone will find a way to use them efficiently I think. Maybe decks that aren't looking to use a second color until late game
August 30, 2015 6:25 p.m.
Dual Lands printed in the 1st sets that don't come into play tapped. Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, & Revised lands...
August 30, 2015 6:30 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #20
Harashiohorn a comment on one of your previous posts. basic lands can still be hit by Ghost Quarter. the Quarter says "target land", not "target nonbasic land".
August 30, 2015 6:41 p.m.
I think the new cycle is really bad. I have no decks that would use them. My modern decks only run like 2-4 basics tops. My edh deck runs like 6 basics. Only my Nya burn MIGHT run the red green one.
I think the "Expidition" set will be expensive but if I pull one of those new cycle lands instead of a full art foil scalding tarn I would be pretty upset...
August 30, 2015 8:52 p.m.
We have to wait to see how it goes. We still have 33 days until the official release of these new lands.
August 30, 2015 9:15 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #24
I shall admit that I was wary that the dual lands in this set would be poor, but I am very pleased to see that they are awesome! They are nearly as good as the shocklands, which makes them very useful for nearly any application, in my mind. Their drawback is not very severe, at least not for me, so I shall be very happy if I open any of them at the prerelease.
However, I have two very important questions about these lands: first, how expensive shall be to purchase as singles; and, second, will there be five enemy-colored lands in this cycle as well? WotC has stated that they wish to give equal support to all ten two-color combinations, so having a full cycle of ten lands would be a great way to do that.
Also, what nickname might the players give to this cycle? I suppose that they could be called "checklands," as are the dual lands from Magic 2010 and Innistrad, since they check the battlefield to see if certain conditions are satisfied, but some players may wish to distinguish these lands from those lands.
August 30, 2015 9:48 p.m.
DemonDragonJ. No. Check lands work with a cycle that is already established... they are called shock lands. This cycle is not compatible with shocks, and it is not awesome. Theyll be 3-5$ for edh and casual players. These lands are slow and clunky. They won't see modern play except on the fringe as a 1x in 2 color decks. They are slow. Lets call the cycle "slow lands" or "slow duals" or "i have never heard of shock lands so im playing these duals"
August 30, 2015 9:58 p.m.
Guys, let's play with the lands first before we say they're the worst thing Wizards has ever done.
DemonDragonJ - The name floating around the community is "Tango Lands." Because, it takes two (basics) to tango.
August 30, 2015 10 p.m. Edited.
Pretty cool name. Im not saying they are bad in standard, but they wont see modern play. There is just no room in the decklists. Most modern decks already use 12-16 nonbasics.
August 30, 2015 10:04 p.m.
JuicyPVP - I know we've only seen the ally ones, but would 
Twin run 1 or 2? What about 
Tokens? Maybe some more rouge decks like 
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, or 
Budget Zoo would run them.
August 30, 2015 10:08 p.m.
JWiley129: pretty much almost everyone who plays Modern/Vintage and EDH decks with less than 10 basics in their decks are going to hate these lands.
August 30, 2015 10:09 p.m.
snotice - OK? I get that. But that doesn't mean you can't try them out. Especially if you have the 9 fetches you'd normally run if you're "optimal".
August 30, 2015 10:12 p.m.
The problem is in modern you dont have 2 basics on table in the meta. I mean dont get me wrong. I think id run like 1x in a list or two, but never more than 1 copie of one of them Drawing it would usually result in a minor rage fit and having it in an opening hand is basically just starting with 6 cards.
Budget decks will run them, but how many GPs do budget decks win?
(All of this is in modern format. I dont play standard and for all i know these could be standard all stars)
August 30, 2015 10:19 p.m.
TheCouchPotato says... #32
There is one modern deck this could go well in, merfolk splashing white for Path to Exile.
August 30, 2015 11:01 p.m.
LucidDreamer13 says... #34
People really need to be patient before they get mad about a card. Sure these on the surface don't seem as good as you would want, but they can't print every set of lands to be all stars in eternal formats. Vintage and legacy shouldn't really even be discussed when considering if a land is good outside of casual or limited, they are already really good due to original duals. The formats to really consider are standard and modern. These are going to be a must in standard, color fixing is just too good. Modern, we don't see them as good as shock lands because shocks can already enter untapped. But not all decks require it. How often do you see people fetch a tapped shock end of turn already, I see it quite a bit. Also life is obviously important, so it is conceivable that adding a couple more basics is an option to help these. Then in case you haven't heard of it, Blood Moon is a fairly common thing that people play around but doing what, fetching basics.
Long story short, play with them before you start hating on them because they enter tapped turns one and two.
August 31, 2015 12:50 a.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #35
Knight of the White Orchid, on the draw, in a white dominant deck with a green or blue splash (so far), can pull this on turn 2 where you don't mind it coming in tapped. Turn 3 you'll have 4 mana up. Specific scenario I know, but just popped in head so I'm sure with time it'll find a home. Kiora's Follower and Arbor Elf don't mind lands that enter tapped. Slows you down a turn, but midrange or control builds are already planning for a longer game, and having the access to a second color of mana could be worth the slow down. Also with all the animist cards that bring a land in tapped, it's "slowness" becomes irrelevant. It's all relative.
August 31, 2015 1:06 a.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #36
I like Square Lands, they require 2 basic lands and provide 2 colors of mana. 2 squared. Square Lands
August 31, 2015 1:09 a.m.
TheCouchPotato says... #37
The other popular names I've seen so far are Tango Lands, Battalion Lands and Latelands, so you have to make a really memorable name to make it stick amongst all the competition.
August 31, 2015 4:41 a.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #38
Also realized Seachrome Coast cycle checked for 2 lands
August 31, 2015 5 a.m.
Ill be buying these. Dual is still better than mono in edh.
August 31, 2015 8:56 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #40
JWiley129 this is hardly the worst thing Wizards has ever done. I'd give that honor to them letting the RC stay in control over the Commander format when almost to a man, every Commander player has called for their heads on an almost-monthly basis when they do something else stupid that fucks up the format.
August 31, 2015 10:08 a.m.
canterlotguardian - The RC gets a bad rap, but they have done a fine job with the format. And, honestly, I don't want Wizards to have control of the format. I'd rather it be an independent body, like the RC. Also, Magic players upset about change/lack of change? Tell me more! -_-
August 31, 2015 11:51 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #42
Haha true that. We are a very vocal/pissy bunch.
August 31, 2015 12:08 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #43
The only deck that really wants these (other than standard, which I'm sure will use these) is any two color Blood Moon deck.
Otherwise, they're a nice option to have, but won't really displace shock lands.
Ironically, they haven't printed a UR or RW version of these lands yet, the two most common color combos for Moon to fit into.
August 31, 2015 6:40 p.m.
Keep in mind that people would probably still play dual guildgates if they were printed in a format w/ Fetchlands. These are better than that - and will probably see play especially considering that they are next to enemy colored fetches/duals.
September 1, 2015 3:33 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #45
Again, will there be five enemy-colored lands in either this set or Oath of the Gatewatch? I do hope so, since I need red/white and red/blue lands for my decks, but none of the other colors.
No one has yet mentioned the one of best thing about these lands: they have generic names that do not reference any particular location or faction on Zendikar, meaning that they can, theoretically, appear on any set on any plane. That is so awesome, since we, the players, shall not need to hope that there is a third block set on Zendikar for these lands to be printed again, in the future.
September 1, 2015 8:56 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #46
In my post above, I meant to say "thing s," but accidentally forgot to type the "s;" is there any way to fix that mistake?
September 1, 2015 8:58 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #47
No, only by doing what you did. I see plenty of typos; as long as it's not frequent I don't think anyone will mind/notice.
September 1, 2015 11:05 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #48
If you upgrade your account you can edit posts
September 1, 2015 11:06 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #50
I don't see any reason not to use these in commander, even in an edh deck with little to no basics, i would still use these. Because I can fetch them.
If you've got abur duals in your edh, then sure dont bother, otherwise....
quesobueno123 says... #2
You'll get more feedback if you post this in the BFZ spoiler thread. They're already discussing these over there.
August 30, 2015 8:24 a.m.