New format?

Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum

Posted on June 4, 2014, 2:40 a.m. by Joking101

With the advent of M15, and a new card frame, are we going to see a new format emerge? Obviously not right away, perhaps in a few years however? Thoughts, opinions?

The Doctor says... #2

Why would we see a new format simply because of a new card frame?

June 4, 2014 3:45 a.m.

The Doctor says... #3

I mean we went from white to black a bunch and nothing really changed.

June 4, 2014 3:45 a.m.

Joking101 says... #4

Modern came into existence based off the new card frame, who's to say it won't happen again? Just speculation here.

June 4, 2014 4:22 a.m.

ChiefBell says... #5

I think in the future there will be new modern, but not yet. Modern will go the way of vintage in a few years.

June 4, 2014 6:26 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #6

Modern didn't come into existence because of the new frame. It came into existence because there was a need for an intermediate format, and Extended wasn't doing its job.

June 4, 2014 7:07 a.m.

Servo_Token says... #7

In 5-10 years, I could definitely see a new modern with the m15 frame. Especially once current modern gets too packed with tempo decks (see legacy) and it isn't as rich and diverse as it is right now.

June 4, 2014 9:06 a.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #8

The only reason Modern became associated with the "modern card frame" is because the frame was introduced around the same time the big modern card design and development philosophies were coming into force. There's still some strangeness at the leading edge of the format (Mirrodin and Kamigawa blocks had a lot of design/development mistakes that wouldn't be made today, 8th Edition is just weird, etc.), but it was a nice, convenient place to start it.

June 4, 2014 9:16 a.m.

Hjaltrohir says... #9

I think that after a few years, everything from M15 onwards with the new card frame is likely to become a new format.

June 4, 2014 11:44 a.m.

Aerokid says... #10

Seems unlikely, though I wouldn't be opposed to it. It would be much easier to collect the staples early on.

June 4, 2014 2:46 p.m.

Relation does not equal causation.

June 4, 2014 2:56 p.m.

KrosanTusker says... #12

Yeah, they won't do it because of the new card frame, but if there's a need for a new format in the future, the new card frame may be a helpful cut-off point.

June 4, 2014 3:34 p.m.

Joking101 says... #13

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Modern is reaching prices similar to Legacy in nature. It's never going to compete because of ABUR duals, but we're seeing 2k+ deck costs. I feel like a new modern will come into play because of this need for a new, cheaper format. For example, there is a massive discussion on another thread about the price of modern, and this "new modern" would completely help this whole issue. I think it won't necesarrily be soon, but it's probably going to happen at some point in time. Probably within 5-10 years like ThatBlueMage said.

June 4, 2014 3:38 p.m.

Honestly, the need for a "cheaper" format is more of a perception by players than a developmental need on the part of Wizards.

That aside, we need to look at this logically. Making a new format won't help the prices; prices rise whenever a card is in demand. A new format might raise prices at this point because cards would be in demand across Standard, Modern, and "Format X."

June 4, 2014 3:44 p.m.

KrosanTusker says... #15

Wizards are trying their best to support Modern, and part of that is keeping it relatively affordable. That's partly what Modern Masters and the Modern Event Deck are meant to achieve. I agree that this isn't a foolproof strategy but I think it's one Wizards would be reluctant to give up on, and I can see it working for the Foresee -able future.

It feels a bit like you guys are all making funeral preparations for someone who's still in good health, and is sitting in the same room. I think Modern will carry on for a while yet.

June 4, 2014 3:45 p.m.

Joking101 says... #16

The thing about Format X that is appealing to players is the cheapness of the cards. Logically, if there is a demand, eventually supply will come. If Modern starts dropping into oblivion (unlikely, but possible) I believe a new format would emerge. It's unlikely at this point because Modern is still a thriving community of players and challenges, but if Modern goes the way of Legacy, we'll see a Format X emerge.

June 4, 2014 3:47 p.m.

gufymike says... #17

Modern has the ability to have more relief than legacy ever will because modern cards aren't on the reserved list and none exists for it.

Sure the cards you want aren't printed in a timely fashion to make them completely affordable, because the reprints that are needed to alleviate the secondary market take 2 years (minimum) to get to the market. This is because of wotc design schedule. They are working 2 years into the future when they start a new design and the fact is that a lot of the modern/legacy staples spiked this last jan/febuary from last year prices to unaffordable was almost unforeseen.

The reason is that MM had such a huge impact on the player base that there are many new modern players all trying to get at those staples at once, right before the pt bng and gp richmond. GP Richmond had almost 5k players for a modern main event.... The largest ever I believe (even bigger than the vegas mm sealed one).

Don't expect these prices to maintain like they are.... WoTC isn't that dumb to repeat the same mistake twice. Because the relief isn't immediate doesn't mean there isn't any and that it is not coming.

Give it time and stop groaning. It is what it is and what it is, is kinda fucked up. But that's life, get used to it.

</rant>

June 4, 2014 3:47 p.m.

Joking101 says... #18

Ah you beat me to it KrosanTusker

June 4, 2014 3:48 p.m.

I'll reiterate my previous points a little more forcefully. The "barrier to entry" argument is largely based on player perception, and there comes a point where player concern devolves into player whining. While it's nice to have an intermediate format remain accessible, the problem is Wizards can only do so much without breaking other aspects of the game.

You'll never get a format that's more affordable than Limited or Standard. Demanding a replacement format for Modern when Modern has barely had time to develop (yes, it has existed for a little while, but change is not instantaneous) is unreasonable.

June 4, 2014 3:54 p.m.

KrosanTusker says... #20

Exactly. Anyway, I like Modern! Let's keep it!

June 4, 2014 3:56 p.m.

forestlore44 says... #21

I think a new format is definitely possible, but unlikely anytime soon. I could see Legacy eventually going the way of Vintage, with $10k decks and a dwindling, exclusive player base. When that happens Modern (as we know it now) could be made to essentially replace it, at the same time making it into full-blown eternal format, while 'Format x' will occupy the place Modern has now.

June 4, 2014 8:48 p.m.

MagnusMTG says... #22

Some of you are talking as if a new format will kill / replace Modern or otherwise make it go away. Modern didn't kill Extended, it extended Extended.

My crackpot idea would be that, after 5-10 years, the current Modern would feel too old to be still called 'Modern.' The new Modern would shift to then be M15+, and 8th ed. - M14 would become Old School Format - only using cards from that era: nothing older, nothing newer.

It would be a way for us old farts to reminisce about the good-ol' days and complain about you pesky whippersnappers.

June 5, 2014 11:11 p.m.

Joking101 says... #23

Yup, that seems the most likely.

June 6, 2014 3:25 a.m.

shocked439 says... #24

There's lots of possibilities.

Modern could become a 10 year rotating format so as to always be modern.

Change is inevitable. The game is always evolving.

June 6, 2014 1:36 p.m.

I have my doubts. The problem with this plan is that it would mean we now have a static format with no new cards entering and no old cards leaving. The meta would stagnate, and there would be no progression.

June 6, 2014 1:37 p.m.

KrosanTusker says... #26

If they created a new format, Modern would still have to include all new standard-legal sets. As Epoch says, it would be boring otherwise. Wizards definitely want to support Modern, so stagnating it like that wouldn't happen.

June 6, 2014 1:43 p.m.

Servo_Token says... #27

So with this new format, we would have a hierarchy that looks something like this:

Vintage - Everything

Legacy - Everything no Banned

Current Modern - (I think Heirloom is already a format, but i'm calling this that right now) 8th edition to current

New Modern - (Just called Modern) M15 edition to current

Standard - Current 2 blocks

Block constructed - Block constructed

Yeah? That way you don't have the stagnate format of 8th-m15, and you still cater to those that want to play (my) heirloom format.

Also, is there currently a format called heirloom? If so, what is it?

June 6, 2014 1:54 p.m.

landcaster says... #28

People are thinking that vintage and legacy decks are ridiculously expensive. They just aren't thinking outside the box. I built a legacy deck that was worth almost nothing, and it was able to hold its own against most other decks that are really expensive.

June 9, 2014 4:27 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #29

Was it manaless dredge though? Because that deck sucks.

No, I honestly think that vintage and legacy will die and modern will replace them. At that point a new format will take over.

Modern will still receive new legal cards in new sets, as legacy and vintage does now. The new format will have fewer sets in it and won't be plagued by skyhigh prices for cards like Abrupt Decay or fetchlands (this is looking 5+ years down the line).

June 9, 2014 5:41 p.m.

landcaster says... #30

No it was a UB Laboratory Maniac self exile. usually winning on turn 3-4

June 9, 2014 5:50 p.m.

KrosanTusker says... #31

But landcaster, your deck would be much improved by adding Underground Sea and Polluted Delta . It's little things that add up and give you an edge. Also some Force of Will , Brainstorm , etc. would be useful (just because of their power level, even ignoring the synergy with your deck) but expensive.

June 10, 2014 12:10 p.m.

This discussion has been closed