New Mulligan Rules
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 29, 2015, 11:42 a.m. by Putrefy
Just read it here.
Only for the upcoming PT for now, but what do you guys think?
GlistenerAgent Haha! Totally agree, I'm really excited actually. Taken a mulligan to 6 can be a huge setback, esp if you draw into another land. I'm really excited to see how this works out.
June 29, 2015 11:51 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #4
I think it's a great thing. Personally I feel bad when I play a deck who only draws 1 land after going to 4 or floods out with 5 lands in a row. It's all that variance, but the extremes kinda suck. I'm more excited about the layout rules though, some o my buddies(you know who you are) are so hard to keep track of what is tapped/untapped. But yea, both changes are great
June 29, 2015 11:51 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #5
GlistenerAgent as pf right now they are testing it out only for the pro tour. I honestly don't know how to feel about this rule change. I mean... it's cool, I guess? I dunno how this makes everything vastly different though. I suppose this has to do with land.
June 29, 2015 11:52 a.m.
freakman13 says... #6
GlistnerAgent the rules may go public early August, but for now only PTOrigins will have them. I am really excited for this change though and it will be a great addition to the game and help alleviate some of the pain of mulling to 5.
June 29, 2015 11:53 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #7
That's pretty cool, actually. I like the idea. Something tells me it's going to get a lot of hate from the community. But I like it a lot because hand land inconsistency is biggest complaint with mtg. I love the game, but mana screwing and flooding are my 2 least favorite aspects, so I like this new rule a lot. It makes mulliganing due to land screwing much less punishing.
June 29, 2015 11:53 a.m.
It's great for decks like amulet bloom that can get real crappy mulligans.
June 29, 2015 11:57 a.m. Edited.
freakman13 says... #9
I haven't seen anyone saying they dislike it yet, so why do you expect people to hate on it?
June 29, 2015 11:58 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #10
I think it's so that important games aren't decided by one player not being able to actually play. I've seen way too many Pro Tour Top 8 matches decided by missing lands or mulliganing to four/five and not being able to get going.
June 29, 2015 noon
TheAnnihilator says... #11
Why would anyone complain about this? I mean, nobody likes to mulligan... at the very best they're necessary.
June 29, 2015 noon
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #12
Ehh, maybe I'm wrong. I just feel like some of the better players might say it favors combo too much or you should build a deck with better consistency so you get better hands or whatever. I personally love the rule change and hope it sticks for all the reasons above.
June 29, 2015 12:05 p.m.
I actually like this rule. it is annoying when you mull to 6 or 5 and have less knowledge about what to to. I like this!
June 29, 2015 12:08 p.m.
SerTimtheJailer says... #14
yea I like this idea, its really annoying when your in a tourney, you know you can beat the guy and you just get shitty luck having to mulligan down to 4 or 5 just to get the land you need. I hope this rule sticks for everybody as it would help with the luck portion of the game.
June 29, 2015 12:09 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #16
As a side note, aggressive mulligan-ers should be very happy about this rule.
June 29, 2015 12:11 p.m.
It will also help out aggro decks as well. Too many times I've drawn 4-5 lands in my opening hand just to mulligan down to 5 with 1 land.
June 29, 2015 12:12 p.m.
Damn. Getting a free scry for going to six (or less) seems pretty insane.
June 29, 2015 12:22 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #20
TheAnnihilator I like mulligans. I'm weird but I like knowing I don't have to play a shit hand and can toss it back for one less.
I think this will help a lot of players out. Your average FNM player is typically terrible at making mulligan decisions and way too conservative. This change should take a lot of undue fear out of the decisions and result in higher quality games.
June 29, 2015 12:26 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #21
@Rasta
Thought you like having the option to mull, I doubt you enjoy taking 6 cards rather than 7. Even if the original hand was unkeepable, having 7 cards is simply better than six, thus mulliganning was "required" but not optimal.
Tl;dr: You don't like mulliganning, you like being able to mulligan.
June 29, 2015 12:29 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #22
Then again, if you like challenging yourself or are otherwise a masochist (aka, you enjoy the "pain" of limiting your hand size), you may "like mulliganning".
June 29, 2015 12:33 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #23
Just to clarify: We don't get to do this yet. They're testing it at Pro Tour Magic Origins.
June 29, 2015 12:34 p.m.
I could be wrong but i think people are misunderstanding this ruling....you scry after you keep not before so you still have to keep very sketchy hands at 6 and 5 and that one scry might not even get you there. If people knew that already though and are still this excited thats fine it just seems like the scry still actually does very little for the game. If you keep a one land hand you still dont know if a land is on top and chances are there isnt if you get consistent one land hands. Also I feel like if they are goong to implement this they need to give everyone the scry even at 7 because your giving an advantage to mulliganing in my opinion. 7 card hands are not perfect and wont guarentee more interactive games.
June 29, 2015 12:34 p.m.
It's more of a handicap for those starting with less than 7 cards. Yes, you would scry after you decided to keep your hand, but you get to dig for that next land. Sometimes that top card is all you need
June 29, 2015 12:43 p.m.
You only scry if you mulligan as well, and only after you declare to keep your hand.
June 29, 2015 12:47 p.m.
ryuzaki32667 says... #28
Delver of Secrets Flip players can mull and keep a hand with a delver on the play and scry a spell to flip delver for free, in modern that will help flip him more consistently.
June 29, 2015 12:51 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #29
Yeah, but you have to mulligan. I'd rather have another card.
June 29, 2015 12:53 p.m.
Having the scry happen after you decide to keep is an excellent way to prevent combo players from exploiting the rule.
EmblemMan - The scry will help protect you from land flooding, but not land screw, and that's a good thing. It's important to give people incentive to play enough lands in their deck.
For anybody puzzled by my statement: it helps with flooding but not screw because your deck is 1/3 land and 2/3 nonland. If your deck was 1/2 land and 1/2 nonland, the scry would help the same either way.
June 29, 2015 12:56 p.m. Edited.
Handicap was not the best word there...So your not playing at a disadvantage by going a card down (6).
It doesn't help delve at all. You have to draw that card before you can drop a land and play delver.
June 29, 2015 12:57 p.m.
golffore297 says... #32
I know this is off topic of the new mulligan rule, but I think it is interesting that they are going to start letting HJ's use video feed to make calls on rulings, this most likely being in the wake of the Patrick Chapin fiasco.
I also like the idea of a team of judges watching the live feed and being able to call out rules violations. There was a lot of sleazy stuff that happened at PT Dragons that was caught on camera but not by the judges.
June 29, 2015 12:59 p.m.
ryuzaki32667 says... #33
Yea the delver thing only works if they are on the play though.
June 29, 2015 12:59 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #34
TheAnnihilator true, I guess I like having the option but not actually the act of it.
June 29, 2015 12:59 p.m.
Let me point out that this doesn't make mulliganing too good because scry1 is strictly worse than draw a card. Having an extra card, even if shit, is always worth more than just not having it.
If you look at an identical combination of cards - one keeps a hand of 7 whilst the other keeps a hand of 6. Both will reach card 8 simultaneously if the mulligan player chooses to scry to the bottom but the non mulligan player will always have that extra resource. Which is fine. If the mulligan player keeps the top card then they'll still be a resource down.
However this is potentially busted for a delver player on the draw. Mulligan to 6. Delver in hand. Scry1 - checks top card. Doesn't draw it t1 because on the play. Plays delver. T2 gets that card they scried.
June 29, 2015 1 p.m.
addaff Thats the point though granted its not an advantage to mulligan but its not hurting people part of the reason you mulligan is your deck is not perfect and maybe thats something you need to work on but this doesnt really make u think that it just makes u think that you can get away with it. Part of playtesting a deck is perfecting what to mulligan this is in essence a handicap i think it babies some players personally.
June 29, 2015 1:04 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #37
Guys, Delver has to have a Delver of Secrets Flip in hand do do that. Plus, Scry or not, the T1 Delver would have flipped anyways -- even on a regular mulligan.
June 29, 2015 1:07 p.m.
I'm really confused how this helps Delver? Because, it doesn't.
June 29, 2015 1:08 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #39
Requires several things:
1) Mulligan.
2) Have Delver.
3) Have a non-fetchland.
4) Have a spell on top.
5) Be on the play.
Remember that the Delver would have flipped anyway if you didn't scry. Only helps if you scry a non-spell to the bottom, which only marginally increases your flip chances. Even more reason why this doesn't help at all.
I think the scry thing is totally fine.
June 29, 2015 1:08 p.m. Edited.
The delver player who is on the play can scry a non spell to the bottom raising their chance of drawing a spell from 0% to over 33%.
It's not game breaking though.
June 29, 2015 1:13 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #42
Still, you have to mulligan (let's call that 40% to be generous) * be on the play (50%) * Have Delver (it's 35% for six cards) * Have a non-fetchland that casts Delver (normally five of these in a Grixis Delver deck --> 42%) * have a spell on top (~50% in Delver)
That's about 1.47%. Non-zero, but not much at all.
June 29, 2015 1:19 p.m. Edited.
So from the arguments thus far, it seems like mulliganning and scry 1 isn't going to break modern. At best it helps the person being a card down (either cause they had a crap hand or mulliganned aggressively) or it does nothing for them, but they know what they are drawing into if they decide to keep it on top.
June 29, 2015 1:20 p.m.
WovenNebula says... #44
I find the mulligan rule interesting but good. As for the layout change I totally agree with it, there are people who lay their cards out in an attempt to cheat or even mind games, if you will. This enforces the way I was taught when I started playing in revised and it should be a uniform system.
June 29, 2015 1:52 p.m.
@WovenNebula the layout change only affects feature matches.
June 29, 2015 2 p.m.
tyforthevenom says... #46
Delver player on the play takes mulligan keeps a delver and an island scry's instant on top and flips turn 2 more consistently because of it
June 29, 2015 4:33 p.m.
tyforthevenom says... #50
The advantages I see personally are to decks like tron which on an average day need the stars to align for a flawless game
GlistenerAgent says... #2
I'm amused that they actually accounted for the assholes that put their lands in front. Screw you guys.
I think this is interesting. Time to count the number of Cockatrice opponents who kick me for scrying 1 after I mulligan. Or is this only for the Pro Tour?
June 29, 2015 11:49 a.m.