New Sarkhan is worse than Tibalt.
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Sept. 5, 2014, 6:57 p.m. by DX5
I am calling it right now. New Sorin somewhat playable.
Femme_Fatale says... #2
50 Shades of Grey was meant to be a Twilight fan fiction. This goes to show you the extent of just how bad it is. It is so bad, that editors wouldn't even touch it. You can't go one page without noticing about 5 errors.
Go read, The Story of O.
September 6, 2014 1:15 a.m.
vampirelazarus says... #3
I'll stick to rereading Dune.
And the rest of Frank Herbert's books, again.....
So good.
September 6, 2014 1:23 a.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #4
Honestly if we dont see any great 1 and 2 drop creatures RR, red devotion is dead and there isnt an rdw either , rabble reds dead too in 3 weeks. I am all in on r/w dev and burn and probably wont play standard for months and only buy a khans box for fetches. My point is, I will sell this guy at his high out of the gate as I feel red is coming to a slump of no way to win at or by turn 5 probably 6 after rotation and this isnt a finisher bub.
September 6, 2014 1:51 a.m.
I'd be careful.. Tibalt is fiend blooded, which means he has planeswalker aids. He got it at random at some party in a graveyard.
September 6, 2014 3:41 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #6
Why do you think I'll be furiously advocating the "no sex on the first date" rule?
September 6, 2014 5:10 a.m.
Sarkhan has one really really good ability. I'll give you that. Tibalt however, has zero.
September 6, 2014 8:32 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #9
What are those abilities? His +1 is terrible, as it generates no card advantage. HIs -4 is a Lava Spike or maybe a little bit better? Very not worth the three to four turn investment to get him there. The ultimate is pretty good, sure, but you're unlikely to get there and it is far worse than the ultimates of any other planeswalker. I'm going to stop arguing now, even though I've just started, because this is stupid.
September 6, 2014 9:02 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #11
Let's compare:
Tibalt's first ability is 0 card advantage and can either hurt you if you're not playing a graveyard-centric deck or help you with the possibility of more help if you're playing a graveyard-centric deck.
Sarkhan's first ability is also 0 card advantage, but it can't hurt you. It can only help you by giving you something similar to Falkenrath Aristocrat . In addition, it triggers raid and ferocious.
Tibalt's second ability can end games. On top of that, it ends games faster against opponents with a full hand.
Sarkhan's second ability can get rid of relatively fat creatures, which protects himself while generating card advantage.
Tibalt's ultimate is freaking Insurrection . On a two-drop, that's ridiculously good.
Sarkhan's ultimate is double Grafted Skullcap , which means I WIN if you are playing RDW since you just keep drawing gas that you extend into anyways.
I would say that Tibalt is pretty good from experience and from just using my brain, and Sarkhan may or may not be better (it's got better abilities but it's more expensive).
September 6, 2014 10:27 a.m.
Tibalt is fucking awful. When you play him you can only +1 him, you have no choice. Discarding a card at random is shocking because you don't get to plan your next few turns. You could throw away your game winning card. Also if youre behind on cards tibalt does nothing because you cant cast the card inbetween drawing it and discarding it. On the other hand sarkhan is flexible. You can play him and beat someone in the face or remove a creature.
In order to ultimate tibalt you need to have discarded 4 cards at random. In order to ultimate sarkhan you need to do damage or at least make him indestructible.
Tibalts ultimate does literally nothing against a lot of decks. Sarkhans isn't great but is very very useful for burn etc.
September 6, 2014 10:36 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #13
What you just described is best case scenerio. The problem with that is the best case rarely ever happens. Tibalt is hated on for lack of control. I'm sure if we remove the at random clause he becomes a hell of lot more playable
September 6, 2014 10:37 a.m.
I figured that by the way you were also saying that he's bad.
September 6, 2014 10:42 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #16
Just didn't want to give you the idea. You're post came in before i had posted mine
September 6, 2014 10:44 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #17
Keep in mind that Tibalt also digs, meaning, you can get closer to your game winning card. On top of that, it's not like you HAVE to use planewalker abilities each turn. On a two drop, if not using an ability is going to help you more, than don't but, in a burn deck where you just keep lands in your hand, you can just play all your burn, then plus one to most likely draw gas and discard a land.
Sorry that he requires actually thinking?
September 6, 2014 10:50 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #18
If that's how you see it, power to you but it's been tested and tested over again and a lot of people haven't had that experience. Unless you're saying 90% of the community playing competitive can't think
September 6, 2014 10:55 a.m.
Burn decks don't have spare land to discard. Burn decks don't have spare anything to discard.
September 6, 2014 10:57 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #20
I take the stance that Tibalt is under-rated. Everyone I've ever talked to has said he's bad because someone else said he was bad. Or because they are scared of discarding at random.
I honestly think that mechanically he is not amazing, but not garbage either. Flavor-wise, he's spot on. However, from a perspective of a player, he adds a lot of wear to your brain to use him correctly. These two reasons are probably why he got the shaft: he's thinking-intensive to use, and he is very harmful if you mindlessly use his +1 because of some stupid unwritten rule that you always have to use a planeswalker's ability when you can.
September 6, 2014 11:09 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #21
The only deck I've ever played that had tibalt that did mildly okay was a rakdos helbent, unearth, flashback brew. It wasn't bad but no where near competitive
September 6, 2014 11:14 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #22
Yeah, a lot of decks just choose not to run him because he's under-rated unfortunately.
September 6, 2014 11:16 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #23
...i mean i could just run lilliana...she cost only one more, creates psuedo.card advantage, doesnt punish me for having no hand, deals with creatures, and has an ultimate that eats the opponents board...
September 6, 2014 11:19 a.m.
I think everyone forgets that Tibalt is 2 CMC. He's not going to have ridiculous game breaking abilities.
Also you guys act like his cost is UU and not RR.
In a blue deck sure Tibalt's random discard would certainly hurt you. In a deck where every card I have is some form of "deal 3 damage to target player" or "tap for red mana" it really doesn't matter what I discard.
September 6, 2014 1:03 p.m.
Except that in just about any deck tibalt gives way more disadvantage than he does advantage. He's one of the worst 2 drops you can be playing in red.
September 6, 2014 1:05 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #26
@DX5 You assume that all a deck will want to do with him is draw burn spells. Red decks do more than that. Anyway, I'd rather my Tibalt be an Eidolon of the Great Revel or just another Lightning Bolt , because those guarantee damage fast. With Tibalt, you have to wait until at least turn 4 to use his -4, which is just... a Lava Spike ? You invested too much mana and time into that. Why wasn't Tibalt just a burn spell?
"I think everyone forgets that Tibalt is 2 CMC. He's not going to have ridiculous game breaking abilities."
Exactly. He has no game-breaking abilities. He has no game-impacting abilities. He does very little to forward a game plan.
September 6, 2014 1:07 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #27
@DX5 You assume that all a deck will want to do with him is draw burn spells. Red decks do more than that. Anyway, I'd rather my Tibalt be an Eidolon of the Great Revel or just another Lightning Bolt , because those guarantee damage fast. With Tibalt, you have to wait until at least turn 4 to use his -4, which is just... a Lava Spike ? You invested too much mana and time into that. Why wasn't Tibalt just a burn spell?
"I think everyone forgets that Tibalt is 2 CMC. He's not going to have ridiculous game breaking abilities."
Exactly. He has no game-breaking abilities. He has no game-impacting abilities. He does very little to forward a game plan.
September 6, 2014 1:07 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #28
I'd rather cast my burn spells...not durdle around with pseudo card draw. 2 mana cost don't mean jack. For 2 mana i can be dealing at the very least 6 damage in a competitive red deck.
September 6, 2014 1:07 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #29
I agree with DX5, the advantage that Tibalt gives you is pretty good especially in RDW.
September 6, 2014 1:08 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #30
.......there is literally no advantage. It doesn't get you ahead in any way......please. find one rdw deck in the history of ever to make top 8 with tibalt played. Just one deck and I'll shut up
September 6, 2014 1:10 p.m.
Tibalt is card disadvantage that hurts your hand even further past the initial card disadvantage
September 6, 2014 1:19 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #32
This thread crushes my soul and makes me laugh despairingly.
September 6, 2014 2:26 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #33
Chill everyone.
Tibalt is love.
Embrace his fiery love.
September 6, 2014 2:39 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #34
Don't forget tibalt is medieval looking sex instruments....
September 6, 2014 2:40 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #36
Zuckfat playing what deck??? How many times did you actually cast him
September 6, 2014 3:11 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #37
I think that's the thing, people who like Tibalt are generally Sadists. The pain inflicted by discarding your win conditions is pleasure enough. The occasional "don't feel bad" moment when you discard something you don't immediately need doesnt even factor in.
I love it when I draw a land and throw away a Lightning Bolt
.
I won't argue with discarding things like Hell's Thunder and Shambling Remains though. Even Desperate Ravings , Volcanic Eruption or Bump in the Night wouldn't kill me. But most burn decks don't play those cards.
September 6, 2014 3:11 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #38
The date was fucking horrible. Tibalt kept on groping my boobs, using his height to stare down my cleavage and having us go places that were in the line of random gusts of wind that would hitch up my skirt. I couldn't protest because he had that look on his face that told me he would jump on me the moment I said anything. It constantly felt like 10,000 Storm Crow s were pecking at my stupidity alarm. "WARNING, STUPIDITY ALERT! WARNING, STUPIDITY ALERT! YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING INCREDIBLY STUPID!"
At the end of the day however, I got this in return.
I don't know about anyone else here, but the shear beauty of this dress makes the entire retarded date, worth it.
If I can get another dress ... may go for more rounds.
September 6, 2014 4:21 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #40
You should probably listen to the Storm Crows next time. They're very wise and knowledgeable.
September 6, 2014 4:26 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #44
Answer me honestly- just how many times are you going to wear those dresses?
September 6, 2014 4:56 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #46
Step one: look at hand.
Step two: see no burn (Lightning Bolt is easy to cast)
Step three: dig until it's Insurrection time or Gaze of Adamaro -for-the-win time or drew-my-win-con time.
... On a two drop.
September 6, 2014 6:34 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #47
Step 2 : Hope there's enough creature's on the field for it to be worth taking them.
Step 3 : spend 4 turns and 4 cards and hope your opponent has enough cards in hand for it to matter....
September 6, 2014 6:37 p.m.
Only good way to play Tibalt.
Step one: see Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded in your hand.
Step two: concede.
September 6, 2014 6:39 p.m.
Step 4: pray that your opponent has nothing to do for the next 4 turns.
September 6, 2014 6:40 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #50
@VampireArmy: then you're a dinosaur.
@Femme_Fatale: pass then my way even you're done.
vampirelazarus says... #1
The song Im referencing, in case anyone is interested in sappy love songs from the 70's.
September 6, 2014 1:08 a.m.