Nissa, Worldwaker
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 25, 2014, 3:05 a.m. by JWiley129
Let me talk to you about Nissa...
I hear you like ramp...
Makes lands dudes. Kinda dig it.
The ult's a bit disappointing without something to give them all haste, and it also kills you dead against anything with a boardwipe.
The second +1 is nothing but value town, though. Omnath loves this elf.
June 25, 2014 3:16 a.m.
YouGotFranked says... #4
EmblemMan Please enlighten me on how she's ''Straight up terrible''.
June 25, 2014 3:18 a.m.
PLaced straight into an Azusa, Lost but Seeking deck being played near you!
June 25, 2014 3:25 a.m.
SevenSeasAgo says... #8
...So she only costs 1 mana in mono green? This is insane.
June 25, 2014 3:27 a.m.
YouGotFranked Making a dude into land is honestly never worth it. Any removal or mass removal kills it and your land, its simply not worth it. HOWEVER, she can give your man lands a pseudo vigilance which is cute.
June 25, 2014 3:27 a.m.
YouGotFranked; Temporary land animation, like with Mutavault , is pretty good, because for your opponent to kill your land, it has to be at instant speed (which is a smaller subset of cards). Permanently animating a land has them become vulnerable not only to Doom Blade , but to Supreme Verdict or Wrath of God or Mizzium Mortars , when normally they wouldn't be.
Also, her ult, while a ridiculous level of ramp and power, also means those lands you got can't tap for mana when they enter (because they're affected by summoning sickness), on top of the weakness to sorcery speed removal mentioned above.
Granted, the untap four Forests ability is pretty sick. But the animation bit isn't too great.
June 25, 2014 3:28 a.m.
I'll do a quick rundown of what Nissa can do for you.
Does she protect herself? Kind of. If you play her on T5 with 5 lands you aren't going to have a creature to block, necessarily. That said with the right draw you could cast her on Turn 3 and still have mana to cast a Courser of Kruphix ! (3 lands, Elvish Mystic , Sylvan Caryatid ) The REAL way she protects herself is by allowing you to cast a 4 drop as well as her.
Does she impact the board? Yes. Making lands into 4/4s? Allowing you to have access to 4 more mana than you would normally have? She lets you cast more creatures/spells or takes your excess lands and uses them to beat down. Because, don't forget, those lands have Trample.
Does her ultimate win the game? OH GOD YES. It's true that board wipes will ruin your day, so you might want to wait for Supreme Verdict to rotate before going all in. That said she only grabs basics, which is fine but you'll have to be careful.
Where does she fit? I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that she could replace Domri Rade in R/G Monsters and she definitely has a place in Mono-Green Devotion. Can you image the kind of mana you can make with her and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx ? It's insane!
Now she's no Jace, the Mind Sculptor (I mean, who is?) but she's definitely a good planeswalker that will see play.
June 25, 2014 3:32 a.m.
I just cant wait to make giant fatty boom boom decks with her and nythos
June 25, 2014 3:36 a.m.
The Doctor says... #13
You could play both her and a Courser of Kruphix on turn three pretty easily.
June 25, 2014 3:41 a.m.
"also means those lands you got can't tap for mana when they enter (because they're affected by summoning sickness)"
If you're still playing lands after Nissa's ult, haven't you already won?
June 25, 2014 3:50 a.m.
YouGotFranked says... #17
EmblemMan, erabel Ok let me propose you a counter-argument. How many lands does Green needs? Right now, in standard, usually no more than 4-5 especially if you play Elvish Mystic and Sylvan Caryatid . Any more lands and your flooding. The reason why Mutavault is one of the best land ever printed is because it can give you value when you don't need it for mana. She essentially give you free 4/4 trample creatures by turning lands you wouldn't need otherwise. THAT'S HUGE. Even better, with Courser of Kruphix , she can get you those 4/4 from the top of your library. I would be happy if my opponent used a removal spell to kill a creature i got for free.
I don't think i need to elaborate on how good her second ability is. As for her Ult, it's common knowledge you should never judge a Planeswalker based on it's ult, but if we need to, then i can say it wins game. Don't forget that the prime wrath effect in the format is going in October and that we still have Thoughtseize for another year if there's another wrath that takes it's place.
June 25, 2014 4:06 a.m.
Very Green. Much Flavor. Wow.
R/G Monsters can pump this and Stormbreath Dragon on T5 with two dorks and Stomping Ground . I like.
June 25, 2014 4:08 a.m.
I dunno. I'm not blown away. A 4/4 trample man-land is good and there will be times when you get flooded and use it, but nothing about her screams "powerful" to me, or "play me".
The new Ajani's much more powerful.
June 25, 2014 4:10 a.m.
YouGotFranked the problem with that argument is that your not taking into account wrath effects. If someone plays a wrath you lose your mana ramp (elvish mystic caryatid etc) AND your mana it is 9/10 times GG right there and making the dudes is simply too risky.
June 25, 2014 4:11 a.m.
She's perfect. I will take four thousand, and a foil for the art.
June 25, 2014 4:13 a.m.
Who said we need to fire off the ultimate? AFAIC, ultimate abilities aren't always meant to be used immediately. If Nissa's ticking up and making a 4/4 trample each turn is working for you, start ramping like mad and keep your opponent afraid of her.
June 25, 2014 4:13 a.m.
zandl - The new Ajani is also pretty sweet, but Nissa has the potential to make a Tier 2/3 deck in Mono-Green devotion and push it. She's only going to get 2-3 months with Shocks, which helps you put her in other decks like R/G or Jund Monsters, but post RTR I feel like she'll take over.
Ajani is interesting since he only needs one colored mana and that makes him splashable in other decks. But he does need creatures to work while Nissa only asks you to have lands, so I think it's a wash.
June 25, 2014 4:16 a.m.
Ajani has the benefit of making your existing creatures much more powerful (have you seen how many keywords are in that first ability?) whereas Nissa makes creatures out of lands indefinitely. If your opponent kills your Ajani target, oh well. If your opponent kills your Nissa target, well shit.
June 25, 2014 4:19 a.m.
zandl - I'm not saying Ajani isn't awesome, he is, but both he and Nissa have clear weaknesses. (And yes, I did read the keywords in that first ability. It's pretty bonkers.) But I appreciate the fact that Wizards has gone from making Planeswalkers that are just "I'm going to jam 4 of these into my deck b/c I can." to "What does this guy do best?"
Part of the allure of Nissa, for me at least, is figuring out where she fits best. And to be honest, you'll probably use her 2nd ability the most out of her other abilities. I can even see turns where I have her at 7 and just keep untapping Forest
s.
Also the new Ajani seems sweet in Superfriends decks, Standard or otherwise.
June 25, 2014 4:27 a.m.
YouGotFranked says... #26
EmblemMan I think you should read my post again, you turn you Flood lands into creatures, not ALL your lands. Even if they wrath, and you lose your mana dorks, you should still have at least 4 lands with you which, if all forests, virtually put you at 8 lands. And again, in a G/b shell, you can strip away their Wrath with Thoughtseize .
Play her with Courser of Kruphix and your board will be flooded with threats, not lands.
June 25, 2014 4:28 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #27
Do people here not understand the concept of card advantage?
If my opponent is using their removal on my lands, that is a good thing, I'm coming out ahead. Nissa turn's my lands into X for 1s, where X is every removal spell they use. (Minus sweepers, but that includes not playing like a doughnut, and not animating all of your lands)
So I know what you're saying, "How is it an X for 1? I'm losing lands, I can't even cast more spells!" Well that's Nissa's second ability's job. It mitigates the loss of lands to removal by getting more value out of existing lands.
As for the ultimate? Who cares. It's something, but it's not why you're playing Nissa.
The problem with Nissa is that she only untaps Forests. Shocks are rotating, so a very heavy green deck needs to exist for Nissa to be good.
She's a powerful card, but just like the past Nissa, she can't slow into any deck playing Green.
June 25, 2014 4:58 a.m.
In standard she'll be fine. In a format with plenty of cheap removal she'll be a bit awful. But that's ok she still has a place. The ultimate is useful because it can potentially mean that for the rest of the game you don't have dead draws - which is absolutely invaluable.
Bit wary about turning lands into creatures but that's probably because in modern there's plenty that can ruin your day if you do that (Maelstrom Pulse - ouch!), however I have no doubt that in standard she'll be good.
I mean if someone kills a forest it's still a 1-for-1 trade however, you know you have potentially 23 more lands waiting to be animated whilst they have like 7 killspells. She's going to win that race easily.
June 25, 2014 5:09 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #29
Maelstrom Pulse is terrible against Manlands, reread it. :3
June 25, 2014 5:10 a.m.
Yeh sorry. Poor example. It'll only go to things like pact, throat, etc. Probs worth it.
June 25, 2014 5:13 a.m.
Perhaps she can finally make Simic Control viable. I don't like that she makes the lands into creatures permanently, makes them too vulnerable. But she provides two functions that are fairly valuable to control: she frees up lands for mana, and she provides beaters to finish the game.
June 25, 2014 6:06 a.m.
Oh my this Nissa... I think I'm in love _
I already see me playing her in my G/B Modern Rock deck and winning games left and right, because she doesn't die to Bolt or Decay and all the man-lands she makes neither do. If you've ever played G/B/x grindy decks in modern you cannot value man-lands high enough. And now a planeswalker that makes them every turn is just the sweetest thing ever! 5CMC might be a bit much though, but Raging Ravine also costs 5 to bash in, so I don't think this is going to be a problem.
Holy kwakamole, I haven't been this excited to play a card for a very long time...
June 25, 2014 6:17 a.m.
@ ChiefBell I think you don't understand. Trading spells for lands is very bad (for the spell-user). I don't mind if you Go for the Throat my 4/4 man-land that Nissa just made, and the Tarmogoyf I play afterwards lives. Man-lands in Modern-grind-decks are awesome, Period!
June 25, 2014 6:20 a.m.
She's going in my rock deck too. I like her very much. I'm just considering whether she's a risky play or not.
June 25, 2014 6:57 a.m.
Putrefy - thta's the point of attrition in general. You don't care if they < insert killspell here > your < insert threat here > because you have like a thousand others to follow up with.
June 25, 2014 7:06 a.m.
I think everyone is missing one important fact about her ulti. Now suppose you are playing a mono green deck (or possibly a two colour) then you get the ulti off (at which point you have 5-7 lands in play) and choose every basic land in your deck and get 15 Elementals into play. Now the worst case scenario is your opponent plays Planar Cleansing you on their turn and you now have an empty board (you would have had this regardless). This is not gg, almost every card left in your deck is a non-land meaning that you will continue to draw threats while your opponent draws land regularly. So even at its worst the ultimate gives you a good chance at winning. Obviously if your opponent doesn't have the wrath you just win the next turn attacking for 60.
tl;dr - Her ulti also thins your deck if they survive the elementals.
June 25, 2014 7:14 a.m.
@ jrh350 also Planar Cleansing would mean you have bascially won, because all the 4/4s survive because they are still lands...
@ ChiefBell risky? why is she risky? How many lands does Rock need to function? 3, 5 if you want to attack with Treetop Village and still have mana open to threaten a kill-spell. So if Nissa turns excess lands into hard to handle threats it's pure awesome. No risk whatsoever!
June 25, 2014 7:21 a.m.
forestlore44 says... #39
She's gonna be best friends with Garruk Wildspeaker in my Nyxwave deck.
June 25, 2014 7:55 a.m.
I think people are missing something about her ultimate...
"Search you library for ANY NUMBER of land cards (not necessarily all of them)... ...THOSE LANDS become 4/4 Elemental creatures with trample..."
If you're playing against a deck that you expect to have board wipes... go get 6...7...8 land leave the rest.
If they wipe, you still have the land you already had in play, and you still have land in your deck... only it's thinned out a bit, which is great at this point in the game.
So, even if they have a response to your Ultimate, you still get a benefit from it. They would have wiped any way, but now you have thinned out your deck.
June 25, 2014 8 a.m.
ha... I noticed that a few others have pointed this out...
I read the first page of posts, and then realized that this has been mentioned on the second page a few times.
Point still remains. She's better than many people are giving her credit for, and if you can see how to play her (it's not that hard), there's little to no risk.
June 25, 2014 8:07 a.m.
beakedbard says... #42
This is literally the card I've been waiting for. Ramp check creates creatures check a game winning ulti check. All this for 5 mana in green which we all know may as well be counted as 3-5 mana in reality. Mono-green and G/x are going to be fun with her around i just hope people keep putting her down the demand isn't massive and i can get her cheap. XD
June 25, 2014 8:16 a.m.
Enlightened_Jedi says... #43
All I know is M15 has me so pumped and hype for this set.
H Y P E D.
June 25, 2014 8:19 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #44
zandl- three, there are definitely three keywords in Ajani's first ability.
June 25, 2014 8:21 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #45
So... pseudo Scapeshift ? Triggers all of the Courser of Kruphix s? Is actually just the nuts when paired with Primeval Bounty ? Yeah, i'll take 12 of this thing.
June 25, 2014 8:56 a.m.
NixTheThird says... #46
Ha! I didn't even think of the combo of her Ult and Primeval Bounty
. If only the Ult counted as casting a creature spell, then get some 15 3/3s for your trouble too. Ahh well, guess you'll have to be happy with your life gain of 45 along with your 15 4/4s.
The concerns about board wipes are somewhat legit, however you can play around it well enough. Another key point to remember is that decks that play Supreme Verdict and the like are also relying heavily on counter spells to keep the board from getting to crowed in the first place. So if you can stick a planeswalker that can put threats down that get around counter magic, it's going to cause them issues. Control decks will learn to Negate her on sight.
Example: The board gets wiped on turn 5. Say you lost couple mana dorks, some other creature and one creature-land to it (mana dorks allowed you to play Nissa turn 3). Down to 4 lands, a clear board, a Nissa on your side and they have Nullify mana up. On your turn you can now play a land for the turn, but instead of just running some other dork into the counter (trying to bait it out of their hand) and passing, you can also make another 4/4 and swing again immediately. No, this tactic won't win you the game outright, but it keeps the pressure on and will force more answer cards out of their hand, making way for finishers.
I do agree she's too niche compared to the other standard planswalkers, but she's certainly not the weakest by any stretch. She'll see some play.
And then die to Hero's Downfall , just like the rest of them.
June 25, 2014 9:35 a.m.
That's exactly what comes to mind! However I don't think she will be as strong in Standard as she will be in Modern. Soley based on the fact, that Hero's Downfall is heavily played in one format and not at all in the other.
June 25, 2014 9:37 a.m.
This nissa is actually disappointing to me. I expected something more tribal. :/ I guess I can hope they print a lore-related nissa in khans, speaking of which I think is going to be very tribal related
June 25, 2014 9:51 a.m.
trentfaris242 says... #49
I was already leaning towards playing Mono Green post rotation. This seals the deal.
June 25, 2014 9:58 a.m.
tempest what were you expecting! Nissa to pump out 1/1 squirrels? This card is the bees knees.
EmblemMan says... #2
the ramp is phenomenal....everything else is straight up terrible
June 25, 2014 3:16 a.m.