Non-Blue Countermagic
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Oct. 10, 2014, 11:41 a.m. by TheAnnihilator
What about it? I'm thinking about cards that aren't as powerful as Red Elemental Blast
, but maybe something like Dash Hopes
, Molten Influence
, or Lapse of Certainty
? I don't expect it to happen, but I kindof want it to. Do you think this is or ever will be a possibility for the future, especially with Abzan being tasked with control in KTK block?
Because seriously, I'd love to see a Lapse of Certainty reprint.
Nigeltastic says... #4
Rarely if ever does anyone but blue get counterspells, especially nowadays.
October 10, 2014 1:41 p.m.
highly unlikely. But I also don't understand how Abzan is tasked with control.
Most of the Abzan lists I've seen are midrange with a few aggro thrown around.
If anything I'd say Sultai is the control clan.
Just my thoughts.
October 10, 2014 1:52 p.m.
forestlore44 says... #6
I honestly think it would help balance out the color pie better if another color got at least some kind of half-decent counterspell, the best color probably being white. Even if they can never be as good as blue ones, It would go a long way to help non-blue decks interact with combo decks in eternal formats.
October 10, 2014 5:52 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #8
@Bellock86 MaRo said during spoiler season that Abzan was the clan for control in Khans of Tarkir. I agree, it doesn't hold true all that well (although, my Abzan control deck that has a couple khans cards --- Despise , Siege Rhino , Utter End , and Suspension Field --- has been doing fairly well).
October 11, 2014 10:15 a.m.
TheAnnihilator - thank you for understanding that i meant no offense. I was actually not aware that MaRo had said that but I'm with you. It doesn't really hold up. Abzan can be control-ish but not truly control in my eyes.
Sultai just has access to so much. Spot removal in the form of Hero's Downfall (best in the format). Counter Magic in the form of Dissolve , Dissipate , and Negate as well as a smattering of other spells. Green for ramping mana to maintain control edge or to even stall out aggro decks with things like Sylvan Caryatid . And arguably one of the best hand disruption spells in the game of magic Thoughtseize and to a lesser degree Despise .
October 11, 2014 1:09 p.m.
tyforthevenom says... #10
You forgot to mention Stubborn Denial Bellock86
October 11, 2014 1:14 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #12
@Bellock86
While I agree that Sultai Control seems appealing, I must also make an argument for Abzan Control (not to self-plug, but its important to distinguish the difference between Abzan midrange and Abzan Control: I've been running this Abzan Control deck).
Both Sultai and Abzan share all of the possible benefits of 
and 
such as Caryatid/Courser and Thoughtseize/Spot-Removal, so when comparing the viability of the two, you're mostly comparing the advantages of adding 
to the advantages of adding 
.
White gives access to some very potent and powerful cards in the form of Elspeth, Sun's Champion , Banishing Light , End Hostilities , Nyx-Fleece Ram , Abzan Charm (arguably the best of the charms), Siege Rhino , and Erase to name the most impactful ones. In addition to removal for almost any type of permanent, one of the advantages of white is that it can gain additional advantage through life-gaining effects. In my experience, Abzan almost never falls lower than 12 life at a minimum, usually ending games higher than 20. I've even ended games at 30+ life multiple times, thanks to Siege Rhino and Nyx-Fleece Ram .
Blue gives access to better card-draw/card-advantage and some powerful cards of its own, such as Dissolve
, Disdainful Stroke
, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
, Kiora, the Crashing Wave
, Dig Through Time
, Treasure Cruise
, and Prognostic Sphinx
. Sultai has the ability to answer non-creature permanents rather easily through use of counterpells (unlike Abzan, which relies on discard spells to remove them preemptively or defaults to Banishing Light
/Utter End
). Sultai also has very resilient threats in its powerful planeswalkers.
I personally prefer Abzan, but either color combo would be decent options.
October 13, 2014 2:20 p.m.
tyforthevenom says... #13
Chalice of the Void (on topic reply) counterspells everything of a certain mana cost
October 13, 2014 2:23 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #14
You could also say that Silence is a form of counterspell, and in following with those routes, anything with split second like Krosan Grip .
October 14, 2014 9:15 a.m.
I love the idea that's for sure. I've always wanted to build Mardu Control or something. And then realize there are no counterspells without blue. And then I want to use blue again.
I would LOVE to see this happen as a die hard control player.
October 14, 2014 4:51 p.m.
Control shouldn't have to be about counterspells or completely synonymous with it either. Control is about controlling the board and what your opponent plays and maintaining card advantage. Everything everyone thinks of by default with U. But that isn't the case 100% of the time. Wraths and removal (creature and permanent) spells along with a very strong board presence and virtual/real card advantage are possible outside of blue to maintain control.
Though I get it with a ton of etb effects (not so much this time, the rhino being the main one to worry about currently) in recent years giving tons of advantage, having counterspells was a good thing.
October 15, 2014 9:46 a.m.
tyforthevenom says... #17
I've seen green and red (mono colour) control lists, red using burn and green using Pit Fight style spells
October 15, 2014 10:57 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #18
gufymike
I don't mean to make it sound like control MUST be blue and have counterspells... I just want to see counterspells in some non- color (to clarify, Blue has a slight monopoly on counterspells, and it makes control in other colors a little harder to play because of it).
To all:
Blue can have all of the hard counters like Dissolve
, while retaining some tempo staples like Mana Leak
and Remand
. White can get soft counters or things like Memory Lapse
and Lapse of Certainty
. Black would be restricted to very few conditional counterspells like Dash Hopes
. Does that seem reasonable?
flyguy says... #2
Maybe Mana Tithe ? That would be really overpowered for Abzan.
October 10, 2014 11:46 a.m.