Odds of LotV reprint, from R&D
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on May 15, 2015, 11:14 a.m. by JWiley129
So we all know the story of how Liliana of the Veil was almost reprinted in M15, but it turns out that she was too good and was cut from the file and replaced with Liliana Vess. Well Sam Stoddard, a developer for Wizards R&D, had this to say about a possible Liliana of the Veil reprint:
"It would be pretty difficult. By our estimates, Liliana is the second-most powerful Planeswalker ever. Some of that is due to interactions in older formats, but a lot of it is just that she's just really, really powerful. We tried her in Standard in M15, because we wanted Liliana of the Veil to go with the Garruk's curse storyline, but the more we tested her, the more obvious it was that she just wasn't okay. Some of it was how strong mono-black was in RTR-M15 Standard, but it was also that she was incredibly strong in Khans Standard.
"If we were to make this format where she was bad, the trick would be to have a lot of spells that really punishing people for you discarding them. The Loxodon Smiters of the world, and also having enough cheap haste creatures that she could easily be killed off when she does hit play. Or even just counterspells that happen to be free on 3-casting cost black cards. But that's not something we want to do for two reasons: 1) it will make a lot of other strategies that intersect with Liliana worse, and 2) we would get people excited by reprinting a powerful and popular card, only to pull the rug out from underneath them by also making it bad in Standard. I'll admit, we've done it before in Standard (not always on purpose), and I don't think it actually ends up making anybody happyother than the people that just want to open the card in question."
Hjaltrohir says... #3
She is almost guaranteed in MM2016/17 when they include Innistrad as she is expensive and a modern staple. She also wouldn't interfere with standard.
May 15, 2015 11:25 a.m.
awesomeguy37 - You are probably correct, I maybe should have put "reprint in Standard" since there is also the RPTQ promo of Liliana.
May 15, 2015 11:29 a.m.
Theros and M15 also gave us really good answers to her, though: Hero's Downfall and Stoke the Flames. We also got Raise the Alarm, Hordeling Outburst, and Dragon Fodder which make her -2 pretty bad.
I think the biggest thing that impacted her reprint was that it would have made Mono-B Devotion even more sickening. They don't have to include a lot of cards to make her bad so long as they just make sure each color has some way of answering her.
May 15, 2015 12:29 p.m.
Yeh so she wasn't awful in standard way back in time because Lingering Souls and Gather the Townsfolk were big in the meta, nowadays things are different. The token cards we see printed in this standard could be reminiscent of a strategy to combat her - before they removed her from M15.
May 15, 2015 2:07 p.m.
SimicPower says... #7
If I remember correctly, during Innistrad standard, LotV was very powerful, but not oppressive in the format. I now that mono-B isn't extremely powerful we could see a reprint. Something like Loxodon Smiter would be nice to combat her, but I don't think we have to shape the entire standard meta around her.
May 15, 2015 3:03 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #8
According to another Sam Stoddard article, Siege Rhino used to have the Loxodon Smiter discard clause when Liliana of the Veil was still in. Then when LotV was pulled from M15, it got removed, and in exchange Rhino got trample and another point of toughness, and it became the 4/5 trampling lifedraining ball of awesome that all of us Junk players know and love.
So yeah, thank you for not being there, Lilly!
May 15, 2015 3:03 p.m. Edited.
Yeah, and well know Siege Rhino hasn't warped any formats since it's printing...
May 15, 2015 3:10 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #11
Thoughtseize, LotV, Whip of Erebos, and Gray Merchant of Asphodel would have been too strong in Standard in my opinion.
May 15, 2015 4:46 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #12
I lost a game last night and know that if I would have drawn a Lilly I would have just Obliterated the other deck. It's one of my favorite cards and so worth the price. ...even though I only paid 40 each for mine. :)
AngryBearTony says... #2
So, according to Sam, there are two options:
1) We reprint Liliana of the Veil. Because we reprinted her, though, anything else we reprint in Standard will make her suck, and so therefore, standard will suck while she's in rotation.
2) We never reprint Liliana of the Veil. We aim to not make Standard suck. But it's possible Standard could still suck from time to time, just without LoTV.
May 15, 2015 11:19 a.m.