Official Spoiler Thread: Oath Of The Gatewatch
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 3, 2015, 5:58 p.m. by ChiefBell
Official Spoiler Thread.
Have at it.
I'm all for 2HG, but I still hate the concept of the Wastes.
December 3, 2015 6:01 p.m.
PhyrexianScience says... #4
Chandra and Jace just got one hell of a visual upgrade. Is it getting hot in here?
December 3, 2015 6:01 p.m.
Imperial Mask is almost a shoo-in. Or at least, some concept of it.
December 3, 2015 6:01 p.m. Edited.
KairuofKairu says... #7
Wastes could go one of two ways. They could be implemented smoothly like they did with flip cards or new abilities so that they are an aspect of the game that is normal and becomes just another part of the game. Or... they could just make it super gimmicky and niche to Eldrazis. Hopefully the Wastes will have a place with non Eldrazis, because a whole new basic land type good for one playset is kind of idiotic.
December 3, 2015 6:18 p.m.
I remember reading before that it was designed with 2-headed giant in mind, does this mean that all of the pre-release events are going to be 2-headed giant, or is that going to be up to your LGS? The store I normally go to doesn't normally do 2-headed giant events, so I'm curious how it's going to work with "2-headed giant being central to the experience".
December 3, 2015 6:18 p.m.
Two things:
WASTES IS NOT A NEW LAND TYPE!
Also the art is school picture day on Zendikar.
December 3, 2015 6:21 p.m.
KairuofKairu says... #10
the Two Headed Giant focus is kind of cool, it's a format I've played a little and would love to get some good THG centric cards for whenever I do play the format.
Also Monsmtg , I do recognize that wastes are not confirmed in any size shape or form, and kind of hope they aren't. I mentioned how it could go two ways, and I have a feeling that if they are real they will be niche and overall useless outside of Eldrazi.
December 3, 2015 6:55 p.m.
KairuofKairu, I think you may have me confused, I was simply stating that if real, then it's not a new subtype, so it won't affect things like domain. I agree with what you said.
December 3, 2015 7:26 p.m.
Jace really has gone through sever different styles hasn't he? First we had "mysterious Jace" with baby Jace and JTMS. Then we had emo Jace with Memory Adept. Then we had Architect of Thought, and I don't really have a clever way to describe him. It's on the tip of my tongue and I just can't put it in words. Anyway, this was followed by Vladmir Putin Jace with Architect V2. Not quite sure what they were thinking allowing that art, it's just ridiculous. Next, came Harrison Ford Jace with Living Guildpact, and finally... finally we were given Jacetin Bieber, Vryn's Prodigy.
And this new art though, gotta say i'm kinda liking the whole "young Wall Street stock broker" look.
December 3, 2015 7:35 p.m.
AgentGreen says... #14
Wastes seem kinda meh, doesn't make sense to drop them in a small expansion; and with this block only two sets and that in 3 months we'll see a new block; it seems LESS likely wastes is legit.
December 3, 2015 7:38 p.m.
As far as the actual set goes... I gotta say, I was really looking forward to it. And then ChiefBell just goes out of his way to announce that it's gonna be another flop.
Formatted for two-headed giant? I mean, really? Really? After what an absolute disaster BfZ turned out to be, they are going to purposefully destroy another set? Are they trying to lose sales?
Frankly, I think this was calculated and intentional. Purposely test some janky marketing stuff in the same set they give us expeditions, so that even if the set is a 100% flop, they still sell well because of the full art foil lands.
December 3, 2015 7:39 p.m. Edited.
KairuofKairu says... #16
Monsmtg I understand, I partially said my previous post to clarify I wasn't saying that they were 100% legitimate. Regardless, Wastes are still very iffy no matter how you look at it.
kyuuri117 I wholeheartedly agree with you on BFZ, I found a few cards in there that I like such as Zada, Hedron Grinder and Desolation Twin but the set overall was lackluster. Even the planeswalkers were kind of sub par, like oh look same old Gideon doing same old loyalty abilities, A kind of cool new Kiora, and Ob Nixils. I hope that Gatewatch fixes some of the issues with BFZ, if not I'll be doing what I did with BFZ and ordering the few singles I want and not actually trying to collect via boosters and what not.
December 3, 2015 7:46 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #17
Am I the only one who thinks new Jace looks an awful lot like Andy Samberg? I can't be...
December 3, 2015 7:52 p.m.
KairuofKairu says... #18
canterlotguardian My god... he kinda does!
That new Jace is Incredibad!!!!
December 3, 2015 7:54 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #19
I like 2HG prereleases, but I prefer to fly solo the first night.
December 3, 2015 8:10 p.m.
So that new legendary BW gal looks awesome. Wish she were printed for C15 instead of Daxos.
December 3, 2015 9:21 p.m.
GoatsEatTrees says... #23
Subbing. And on a side note, Abzan's curve just got even more insane. They're winning Pro Tour OGW.
December 3, 2015 10:26 p.m.
Hhhnnnnnggggg.. please let that legendary w/b cleric be real. My Athreos-led cleric edh deck is only so appropriate.
December 3, 2015 10:34 p.m.
Hey I'm kind new to magic spoiler discussions so please forgive me if I'm saying things only a scrub would say but:
I'm wondering why people are considering the new <> symbol as meaning colorless only. It honestly makes more sense honestly if it was considered a new color then that for the simplicity of new players not to mention it would help balance the color wheel. Black opposes white red opposes blue green opposes gray since one is a forest full of life and the other is well... A wasteland. Flavor and lore wise it makes more sense. Not to mention the fact that these "wastelands could spread amongst the plains because I do not think wizards is gonna elminate the possibility for the eldrazi to spread to other worlds. The wastelands could erupt through the multiverse as the greatest super predator ever known is freed(aka Emrakul.)
Now looking at the cards themselves I personally have fallen in love with the new Kozilek since he solves one issue ramp decks have which is keeping your hand full and menace makes him even better. His counter effect is awkward but it's nice in a mirror against other eldrazi Titans(looking at Ulamog)
December 3, 2015 10:38 p.m.
zephramtripp says... #26
Is it possible that Wastes (if real) will be distributed at some higher frequency than normal basics to increase supply? Perhaps as the basic slot in packs instead of normal basics? Or just more common that basics usually are?
December 3, 2015 10:55 p.m.
KairuofKairu says... #27
Ej1997 First off, don't feel that you have to apologize for voicing your opinion, if we all viewed everything the same, these discussions would be pretty dull.
As for what you think on wastes, that could be viable. But the introduction of a new color to the color wheel would first off enrage many fans, especially ones who have been playing for a long time. And one would have to wonder what Wastes would specialize in. Each of the five colors have their niche areas that have been determined since Alpha, and they've only become more defined as the game has evolved. The only thing I can really think of are Eldrazis, abominations that didn't fit into any of the five niches of the colors. And that is where I feel Wastes could be a mistake. Making a whole new sixth basic land type, thus a new "color" on the wheel requires a lot more than Eldrazis for it to run. Green for example is focused on creatures and damage, and thus most green cards reflect a heavy offense. Red is all about quick and ferocious offense, Blue is about countering and manipulating, Black is about sacrificing and direct life and card loss, and White is about mostly direct control. And of course, each of these niches have room to mesh with one another forming new combinations and strategies. And that leaves the question, what would a fifth land type add? A land type for only a specific creature type seems far to specialized and all around weak, and I don't think a non-Eldrazi deck will ever touch a Waste. Now of course Wizards of the Coast may have some plan to change everything with Wastes, but personally I don't want that. I'm all for improving the game through new mechanics, but they have to feel like a logical progression. Randomly adding a sixth "color" for no reason but for Eldrazis or some other undetermined reason wouldn't be adding much to the overall formula of the game.
Also, the new cards "leaked" (it's still kind of up in the air as far as I know) have been... okay. Now the Orzhov card looked awesome, but as for our Wast centric cards, I wasn't impressed, even Kozilek seemed kind of dull in my opinion, while BFZ (a set I also had a lot of problems with) at least managed to makeUlamog, the Ceaseless Hunger be cool and overpowered like an Eldrazi Titan should be. But overall, I'm not super impressed so far.
December 3, 2015 11:01 p.m.
KairuofKairu says... #28
zephramtripp Who knows? But that does bring up another viable point to Wastes, supply. People would have to shell out money to just buy basic lands, and knowing markets these prices could probably skyrocket with demand. I mean look at exploration lands, a decent sac land for about 100 bucks because a deck could use them well. Hopefully something like what you suggest will happen so Wastes won't be ridiculously overpriced or something.
Assuming this isn't fake that is.
December 3, 2015 11:05 p.m.
Personally I hate the idea of a sixth land. It feels rather gimmicky. It also seems to me that Wizards must have noticed that somehow, but I suppose I can only hope they are fake. Super excited about the orzhov lady though.
December 3, 2015 11:19 p.m.
Honestly I can see the new colors mechanic being more focused on the exile zone and removing resources from the game that way instead of the traditional removal to the graveyard though I do have to agree that is one trick part since that entire mechanic would be covered by rest in peace
December 3, 2015 11:22 p.m.
Brolamog_the_Infinite_Higher says... #32
I think Wastes isn't going to be like a 6th color, but more of a token land. For example, you can have an ability called "Devour" or something and essentially there would be trigger (probably battle damage or a mana effect) that can transform any land into the game into a Waste which taps for colorless mana. You could counter your lands and your opponent's lands with this ability, either using it as a mana base disruption tool (and thus nerfing fetch lands) or using it on your own lands to cast stuff like Kozilek. Just my theory
December 3, 2015 11:32 p.m.
That actually sounds pretty awesome though I must admit another cool idea to go along with that would be someway to tap your opponents lands to suck the life out of them. Would make understanding the new basic easier
December 3, 2015 11:36 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #34
Ej1997, adding a sixth colour would off-balance the colour-wheel, not balance it. Currently, every colour has two ally colours and two enemy colours (so it's like a game of rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock), but once you add a sixth colour, you can't do that anymore. It would be two allies, one opposite, and then just two sitting out in left field - neither enemy nor ally.
KairuofKairu I think it's pretty ridiculous to compare Wastes to the Expedition lands - one is going to be at common rarity, the other is extremely rare and the lands they've reprinted were all in demand long before the expedition reprinting.
But, based on the spoiler, Wastes will be filling one of the 10 common slots in a pack (when they're there), so you should be able to draft2-4 of them if you're going for a colourless/eldrazi build. Potentially more frequently, if they have multiple Waste cards.
December 4, 2015 12:09 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #35
I could see them putting a wastes in the land slot of every pack and fill the fat packs land pack with them to put enough in rotation, dependent on the demand. If they're in really high demand like a new basic type would be, then they'll need to print a ton super quickly, and that's the easiest way. If they're nothing too special, then maybe they won't do that, but it wouldn't surprise me.
December 4, 2015 12:24 a.m.
Ooh, Jace lookin' phine.
Not sure how I feel about a 2HG-centered set. I feel like it will be fun and refreshing for the prerelease, and the entertainment may even carry to the first draft, but beyond that....
Then again, this set could potentially be filled with new EDH staples and casual cards so wacky / bizarre that they actually make building gimmick decks fun again.
December 4, 2015 3:22 a.m.
KairuofKairu says... #38
Named_TawynyI wasn't saying that the two lands were similar in function, just that if Wastes are scarce in packs and starter decks, the value of them may inflate with demand. Just as the rarity of explorations causes their value to increase. Now I doubt that they'd ever be as pricey as expeditions, but it could be annoying trying to piece together a deck with them.
December 4, 2015 5:27 a.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #39
One thing that no one seems to have mentioned about Wastes cards: they can manipulate spells. Countering and copying are what we've seen so far. Just a theory.
December 4, 2015 6:37 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #40
They're commons. They'll be in every fourth pack, give or take. Expeditions are in every sixth BOX or so. Even if wastes prove tournament viable (and that's an if) they won't be more than 50 cents each. And that's on the absolute high end.
December 4, 2015 6:39 a.m.
@Brolamog_the_Infinite_Higher - "Devour" is already a mechanic. Haha, so I doubt it will be called that, but that would definitely be interesting.
December 4, 2015 9:29 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #42
@KairuofKairu They have only spoiled one card so far (officially) a little early to state that your not impressed.
December 4, 2015 9:33 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #43
@Named_Tawyny "Common" doesn't mean much if anyone needs more than four of them. For example, Shadowborn Apostle is a good example. Despite that it's fringe playable at best, it's $1 when most commons are 15 cents, meaning it's almost 7x more valuable.
Now look at Wastes. At the very least, a number of them will be used in colorless EDH decks from what we can deduce about the card's abilities. If it is actually a whole new color (probably not, but humor me) I guarantee it will see play as more than a 4 of in a number of decks. Regardless of how exactly it works, we may see standard decks using the mechanic/basic land fairly often.
That creates a fairly high demand for a common that isn't restricted to a 4-of. Though it's playability is unclear, I very much expect its price to be at the least $1, likely more.
December 4, 2015 9:34 a.m.
is really starting to get some great tiny leaders Commanders.
December 4, 2015 9:47 a.m.
just checking in to remind everyone that, no, wastes is not a new basic land "type". the card is just a basic land without a subtype.
December 4, 2015 10:34 a.m.
Just some information seeking here:
For those of you who say sets are flops (eg kyuuri117), I'm just wondering what you're basing that on?
- % of playable cards in standard (or other formats)?
- Overall sales of the set? - if so, where do you find that info?
- Overall value of the set?
- Just your general experience with the set?
December 4, 2015 1:34 p.m.
brcap To answer your question, yes.
To expand on that, the only real standard playable cards in BfZ are the dual lands (which are used as 1-2 of's in most decks, rarely are there three or four copies), and Gideon. Yes, there are some other cards that end up in decks as one of's, but thats just personalization. The decks would function well without them. Aristocrats is the exception, using a bunch of BfZ commons.
As far as playability in other formats goes, there is none. Painful Truths is seeing play as a one of in the sideboard in one or two legacy decks. That's it.
The overall sales of the set, well, you can't really find those numbers as WotC doesn't publicize those. But honestly? Without the Expeditions this set would have been the biggest financial failure they had seen in years.
The reason for that is... there is no value in the set. Gideon is worth something because he's a four of in the decks that use him. Ulamog is worth a little, because he's the only big eldrazi worth playing. And Drana is worth something, because people are speculating that she might actually do something, eventually. But that's it. And only having two-three chase cards in a set, while everything else is worth under 5$, means the set is a financial failure. Again, without the expeditions, no one would have bought these after the first few weeks.
As far as my general experience with the set goes, well, I really, really, dislike this draft format. I don't like how it plays, I don't like the ally theme, and I don't like the current eldrazi theme. I think that it's overly complicated, definitely the most complicated set i've drafted, and I don't like the art.
As far as standard goes, I think that introducing fetchable dual lands while we have fetch lands available was an interesting idea, but ultimately a failure when the useful cards available are all from Khans/Dragons of Tarkir. The reason this is a failure, is because all the top tier decks are homogeneous. Esper Red/Green, Jeskai Black, Abzan Blue, Dark Temur. Like, because the fourth color splash is free, there is literally no reason to do it. The decks are just too similar, there's no real archtypes, and I feel like the color wheel has been completely fucked in the set. And I hate it.
December 4, 2015 2:40 p.m.
Brolamog_the_Infinite_Higher says... #48
I think I have to disagree with kyuuri117 on this one. I think while BFZ didn't impact Standard as much as it should, that's not really because BFZ cards are bad but because Khans had insanely powerful cards that raised the bar a bit too high. I think once Khans rotates out we'll see BFZ take a bit more prevalence in Standard, because it's hard to compete with cards like Siege Rhino. From a lore perspective the set is a huge success, continuing the Zendikar storyline in a satisfying manner and the cards definitely get a good score flavor-wise. While art is all in how someone looks at thing, in my opinion the full art lands are gorgeous an the art style definitely highlights the unique world of Zendikar. The Draft could be better, as Green is a bit weak and White is definitely the best color to pull but it's not unbalanced to the point where one color dominates everything. I'm not sure where you think things are complicated, as there are clear archetypes and even then you can mix Eldrazi and Ally creatures if needed. Overall, while it's not an amazing set I still don't think it's as awful as people say it is.
December 4, 2015 3:37 p.m.
KairuofKairu says... #49
Schuesseled Based off of what I've seen (officially confirmed or otherwise) I'm not excited, and if more cards come out that are interesting and offer interesting play, I'll retract that statement.
And brcap my thoughts on BFZ stem from my experience, not many cards really interested me, while Origins and Tarkir and other sets had several cool cards and fun for all formats. I found BFZ to have very little interesting cards in my opinion. Now if you enjoyed BFZ, then all the power to you, it just wasn't my cup of tea
December 4, 2015 4:19 p.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #50
Two-Headed Dragon you say? So they didn't think a supplementary product like Conspiracy would sell as well so we might as well cram it into a regular release?
I will reserve judgement till I see the cards but I am expecting a lot of cards that have higher casting costs than they should because they hit multiple targets
ChiefBell says... #2
Oath of the Gatewatch Prerelease Pack Contents:
4 Oath of the Gatewatch booster packs
2 Battle for Zendikar booster packs
1 randomized, date-stamped, premium promo card drawn from any rare or mythic rare in the set.
1 Spindown Life Counter
1 deckbuilding advice insert
Two-Headed Giant is Central to the Experience"
Oath of the Gatewatch is all about teamwork. Its designed to support Two-Headed Giant better than most any set in Magic history.
December 3, 2015 5:59 p.m.