Official Spoiler Thread: Oath Of The Gatewatch
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 3, 2015, 5:58 p.m. by ChiefBell
Official Spoiler Thread.
Have at it.
I disagree that cracking a pack of BFZ is "expedition or bust".
You are insulting Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, Drana, Liberator of Malakir, Zada, Hedron Grinder Emeria Shepherd, Guardian of Tazeem, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar $$$ and many more cards.
BFZ is only a bad set if you're out looking for money.
December 17, 2015 4:06 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #3
EDHNUT... so financially speaking you agree with him. It IS a bust if you don't open an expidition, because you paid 100$ (?) to open 50$.
December 17, 2015 4:09 a.m.
December 17, 2015 4:12 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #5
EDHNUT I was speaking about a box. But even the booster, scaled down, is not worth the cost. Opening a 10 cent rare is not worth the cost of 4$.
December 17, 2015 4:25 a.m.
Oh, okay...
No, that's true, as I said, you don't invest in sealed BFZ (I didn't make that clarification) for money. I DO agree with him/her from a financial perspective, yes.
December 17, 2015 5:11 a.m.
Buying booster boxes is only ever worth it if your going to use them to design, is all Im saying. Draft with your friends and you will get your moneys worth. :P
Seeing as all my friends who play magic are on tapped out.. I play at my lgs with people I know.. (My friends there being the judge, the shop owner and a dude who ONLY plays modern fnm.)
Singles or Bust, otherwise.
Would be nice if bfz didnt feel so bad. I can tell yeh.. Im sick of drafting watered down cards.. This next set should be better on principle, right?
December 17, 2015 5:27 a.m.
I'm only going to be spending money on singles from OGW. I will need to see more of SOI to make an informed decision.But I WILL be buying tons of KTK. (That set was effin' awesome, with foil fetchies being free money, and the fact that there were no sub-standard mythics, like there have been inn other recent sets. Yes, I'm looking at you, Demonic Pact, and you too Akoum Firebird.)
December 17, 2015 7:25 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #9
I'll be buying a box, draft it, open some value, get my money back and enjoy the hate of my friends when they insult me for being a lucky bastard. :3
December 17, 2015 7:33 a.m.
I think the Expecition Wasteland will be a little more than the Judge Promo's. - ~$300-400.
That's just a guess of course... but this is the first time it's printed as a Full-Art Foil, so I would assume it will be a bit more.
December 17, 2015 7:47 a.m.
On second thought, I might preorder a Fat Pack and be da guy wid da Wastes.
December 17, 2015 7:54 a.m.
wwhitegoldd says... #12
I just want to be clear that I'm not mad at you guys but rather wizards because they tried to cover up a terrible set buy giving people a chance to pull a $100 or $200 card. I just feel cheated in a very bad way. Sorry for being so salty. :(
December 17, 2015 9:47 a.m.
CastleSiege says... #13
wwhitegoldd, you're not the only one who feels that way so there's no need for you to aplogize for being salty.
Personally I like the concept of Expeditions and hope they do similar things in future sets. However, that isn't an excuse to water down sets. Opening a box shouldn't be "Expedition or bust." There should at least be a semi-decent chance of pulling something else that's really good as part of the set.
December 17, 2015 10:47 a.m.
Hang on, you guys.
Is someone really complaining that you can lose money by opening boosters?
December 17, 2015 12:01 p.m.
wwhitegoldd says... #15
No. That is a given when opening any set. What we're complaining about is how extreme BFZ is. It's either you win the jack pot or you get squat (HINT: You get squat 99% of the time). Most other sets there are at least a couple rares that are worth something as well as a good number of the mythics. In BFZ it's like three mythics and expeditions.
December 17, 2015 12:08 p.m.
zandl what i think they complain about is that the overall value for the set is very low. Its more fun to draft if there is a chance you get something you want.
December 17, 2015 12:12 p.m.
Looking at SCG prices...
Only 15 cards @ $3.50+
9 of those are Mythics - (So, even lower chance of opening)
The other 6 are Land.
Yup... seems to me to be a very low value for the newest set printed.
December 17, 2015 12:30 p.m.
Battle has 13 cards worth more than booster MSRP, 8 of which are Mythics.
Origins has 8 cards worth more than booster MSRP, 6 of which are Mythics.
Dragons has 15 cards worth more than booster MSRP, 8 of which are Mythics.
Fate has just 3 cards worth more than booster MSRP, all of which are Mythics.
Khans has 8 cards worth more than booster MSRP, 3 of which are Mythics.
I don't see exactly how Battle is any worse off than the other sets in Standard.
December 17, 2015 12:37 p.m.
If by SCG you mean starcity games Rayenous, I don't see where you are getting those statistics. They've only released prices on kozilek, crush of tentacles, and wastes. Am I missing something?
December 17, 2015 12:54 p.m.
wwhitegoldd says... #21
That's fair except that 6 of battles rares are lands that are about as useful as temples and we all know how much temples are worth.
December 17, 2015 1:04 p.m.
You're missing the fact that Fate also had a chance @ Fetches.
Also, Battle was released less than 3 months ago... values drop over time as more packs are opened and new set are released... this hasn't happened to BfZ yet.
As all the non-Mythisc in the set with any value are non-Modern played land, I don't see a lot of value retention.
December 17, 2015 1:31 p.m. Edited.
JakeHarlow says... #23
It's a pretty bum set in terms of value, apart from a handful of mythics and Expeditions...
December 17, 2015 1:45 p.m.
I have hated BFZ from a building perspective.
I had a tonne of fun building new types of decks in all colours during Origins but this set has been so lacklustre that everyone has time-traveled back to KTK.
December 17, 2015 2:36 p.m.
AgentGreen says... #26
That portal is closing after April
And alot of decks are going to get sunk in standard
December 17, 2015 3:42 p.m.
Wobbly_Bob says... #27
Cough Abzan, Dark Jeskai.All of my least favorite standard archetypes.
December 17, 2015 3:53 p.m.
So, with OGW pre-release being slightly geared toward Two-Headed Giant, who's thinking about the possibility of Imperial Mask reprint?
(The only non-"UN" set card, printed before OGW, that uses the word 'teammate'.)
December 17, 2015 4:03 p.m.
Wouldnt a wasteland land that produces mana be an oxymoron? It becomes a wasteland because the eldrazi devoured all of the magic (life) out of it. It doesnt make sense why they would add this new type of mana. If anything the wastelands should be entirely devoid of eldrazi because there is nothing left to feed on. I dunno.... They seem opposite so far as lore goes... To me anyways.
December 17, 2015 5:08 p.m.
_-Orvos-_ Could I still build my house there? Still has value as a resource somehow then, right? :P May be a stretch..
Agree with yeh too though. I doubt they thought of the same convenient excuse.
December 17, 2015 5:32 p.m.
@_-Orvos-_, first off... colorless mana is not new. It was just always written out in text as " one colorless mana" or it was written as 
. The problem with this was that it used the same symbol that they use when specifying a generic cost (meaning mana of any color or colorless mana could be spent to cast it). So what they did was change the symbol that colorless mana used so the two are now distinguishable when seen next to each other. Look at the new Kozilek for example. How confusing would it have been if it read 
?? That would say the same thing as <><>, but it would be read differently because of the inability to distinguish between generic mana cost and the symbol for colorless mana. Imagine if they changed the symbol for white mana, instead of a sun they used a moon. Functionally nothing would be different, just visually. The same thing is happening with colorless mana, so it's really nothing to get upset about. OH NO a symbol changed, it's not the end of the world.
Secondly, they are waste, not Wastelands. There is a notable difference between the two. Plus they fit just fine flavor wise. They were at one point lands that added mana. That mana just so happened to be geared toward a specific color of magic and benefited those spells of that color more. The eldrazi feed on the colored magic (as you stated), stealing the colored magic away leaving behind mana devoid of color. Hence why your left with waste, a land that provides mana that is completely devoid of color.
December 17, 2015 5:33 p.m.
@Ryotenchi the waste lands resemble busmuth and it looks cool and seems to be worth a lot. So ya build a house there! Itll be way cool. You might have some trouble with a level foundation though.
Also for anyone who cares bismuth is a multicolored mineral that fractles out in cool cubic shapes look on the first page for a pic of the waste land. I find it funny that they used such a colorful mineral for a colorless land.
December 17, 2015 5:44 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #33
For those wishing to keep track of all the card prices for each set each day, this site does it all for you.
December 17, 2015 5:47 p.m.
You know I can't help but wonder if Ulamog dies if he'll release an explosion of color so devastating that it will ripple across multiple planes. It would make Michael Bay look like a chump.
After all, Ulamog only "absorbs" the color aspect, not the man itself per say. Lands chewed up by Ulamog can still produce Colorless. I am assuming that creatures that die via Ulamog just had some kind of composition that cannot hold itself together without the color present and so it turns to dust when the chemical composition breaks down since color acts as the "bond" between the creatures atoms.
December 17, 2015 7:08 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #37
kengiczar so what you're saying is that we may witness the birth of Nyan Cat?
December 17, 2015 8:24 p.m.
AgentGreen says... #38
CanadianShinobi Except more destructive and 500x more annoying
December 17, 2015 8:35 p.m.
NYAN CAT WALKER!!!! =n.n= * begins a list for the impossible dream *
December 17, 2015 8:46 p.m.
Unleashed84 says... #40
what will our chances be getting waste lands in our fat packs with the other basics?
December 17, 2015 8:48 p.m.
McSleuthburger says... #41
December 17, 2015 9:08 p.m.
HairyManBack says... #44
After playing this game since Saga block I've seen it broken more than any other game I can think of by 10x. This isn't anything new. After taking some years of not playing too much I came back and was utterly shocked of the new abilities and cards. Being like many psuedo-old school players I simply shook my head. But it is what it is. Either I live with or don't.
I've always wondered how Wizards could keep making new cards with a fairly limited concept. They reprint staples and make new ones. Make new cards that are simply better or worse than old cards. To be fair I'm bewildered by the fact there isn't 9 colors, more new card types like planeswalkers, and some more additions that keeps stretching the game down an obsolete path.
I look at the old staple Grizzly Bears and then look later at Fauna Shaman. Unless I'm playing a bear deck why would I play Grizzly? It's stupid and I really believe all Magic players have to stop and look at the fact were playing a game that wants to make money much more than preserving a game. Still I find it sad my fellow players.
December 18, 2015 2:50 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #45
Nobody would play this game anymore if the powerlevel was still at Grizzly Bears range. New cards have to do things.
December 18, 2015 4:43 a.m.
Agreed. Ive felt it in my gut somewhere.. that wotc has in the last 4 years become untrustworthy.. I value my time, and use most of it studying mtg. The last 4 months, after having quit wow for destiny, then destiny went under; Ive spent just studying daily, all day.
I believe wizards should value my time.. All of our time, collectively. Time is money.. Were paying them double, maybe even triple msrp for cardboard.. This addiction. :P
Hopefully there is a toy or two in there for the decks I own.
/sigh-at-standard.. boring.. Im sure that promo will be good.. or maybe just okay for standard at least right?
December 18, 2015 4:46 a.m.
@ HairyManBack - The bottom line is that Magic the Gathering is limited by it's fundamental rules such as turn order, card types, and deck composition.
Also I challenge you to find any field of entertainment that isn't just rehashing constantly. Whether it's movies, music, art, novels or even philosophy nothing is new under the sun. Your mental health as a human being depends not upon experiencing new things, but upon experiencing the same things in a new way.
Everytime you go somewhere new and you think "wow this is really neat I've never seen this before" you're absolutely wrong. The truth is you just haven't seen that stuff in that composition before.
Everytime you hear a band play a new song you might think "wow I've never heard this before" but you'd be wrong. You've heard all of those notes before, all of those words before, and all of those rhythms before. Only the composition changes and even that is debatable with some songs.
So just as music, art, games or anything else have their underlying fundamental components so to do TCGs. There is only so much that can be done with Magic the Gathering and adding another color doesn't actually increase the amount of things that can be done. It just changes the way things look.
Griping because WotC hasn't changed the fundamental concepts of their game seems very weak to me. I wold posit that MTG is so popular because it follows the basic principles of the word by establishing it's own universe and physics (here meaning the multiverse and the rules you use to play the game) and sticks to them.
December 18, 2015 4:54 a.m.
I am seriously not a fan of Wastes. It's just wizards wanting to be different from other games. They are already different enough, Magic is much much more heavily played than any other trading card game. Also the fact they decided it to be colourless confuses players. Adding a sixth "colour" is not a good idea. I really hope it gets removed. The sad thing is that Wizards I think have realised that is has majority vote against it. Sure, it fits with the lore and all, but I'm never going to be convinced.
December 18, 2015 7:32 a.m.
At least you're aware that you are "never going to be convinced"... saves us the time and headache of trying to explain how this is not a 6th-color, and that the 'majority' is okay with 'Waste' and colorless mana being different than generic mana.
Ryotenchi says... #1
Im playing drafts.. Still a chance it could happen.. Though I been reducing those chances with fluff filled modern masters packs..
Who needs to buy a whole box to have a chance?
December 17, 2015 1:46 a.m.