Official Spoiler Thread: Oath Of The Gatewatch
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 3, 2015, 5:58 p.m. by ChiefBell
Official Spoiler Thread.
Have at it.
I personally think making "colorless" mana its own type was totally uncalled for. It makes the game more difficult to understand for new players and a lot of old cards need errata (like Sol Ring formerly producing 2 generic Mana and now <><>).
I understand that the change only appears to be complex on the surface. Whatever produced (1) before now produces <>, whatever cost (1) can now be paid with <>. The only thing new is that you actually need to have "colorless" mana to pay for certain spells, like new Kozilek.
I really hope Wizards is going to use colorless manacost scarcly, as I don't like the concept at all.
December 18, 2015 8:08 a.m.
Darkmagi1131 says... #3
It's not a 6th color... it's been here all along. They are just clarifying something that has been in the game since the beginning. Lots of things produce colorless mana and have for along time. The original text of Sol Ring was T: add 2 colorless mana to your mana pool. It's always been in the game. They are just finally giving it the symbol it should have had.
December 18, 2015 8:09 a.m.
Darkmagi1131 says... #4
Pale Moon, Chaos Moon, Protective Sphere, Ritual of Subdual, these are all older cards that reference colorless mana. If this was the 6th color these cards would not exist.
December 18, 2015 8:16 a.m.
Yeah I phrased that wrong. But still it makes things harder to cast.
December 18, 2015 8:41 a.m.
Ugh... Not this again...
<> IS the new colorless. Anything that would produce (1) or whatever now produces that many (<>).
December 18, 2015 8:44 a.m.
@MorgsJ - I think that's the point. Kozilek and his distortion is supposed to be 'harder to cast/control' than Ulamog and his destruction.
December 18, 2015 8:49 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #8
Well I like Goblin Dark Dwellers. I assume that I'll get about 7 mana worth of effect for 5 mana and most likely a 2 for 1. Exquisite Firecraft, Crackling Doom and Kolaghan's Command for free seems decent and might give this guy a shot at seeing some play.
December 18, 2015 9:05 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #9
Shit, if you could flashback Painful Truths for 3 cards it'd be really good...
December 18, 2015 9:09 a.m.
...but you can't.
Converge = 0 if you cast it without paying it's mana cost.
December 18, 2015 9:12 a.m.
December 18, 2015 9:30 a.m.
So what is the clarification here? In the context of spells such as Spell Shrivel and Mana Leak, do the controllers have to pay colorless in <> <>? What if they only have basic lands? Is the spell then essentially uncounterable(with paying the mana cost)? I'm confused. This kind of change could permanently change the mana bases of mono-colored decks.
December 18, 2015 9:33 a.m.
Midexin, you only have to pay <> if the card's cost specifically states <>. To the best of my knowledge, the only card that does so is new Kozilek. Old cards still cost generic mana, not colorless. The change that is being made to old cards is just that old cards that produced 
now produce <> instead, but there is no change to costs associated with old cards. So Mana Leak still requires three generic mana to avoid, not three <>.
December 18, 2015 9:38 a.m. Edited.
Spell Shrivel's 
and Mana Leak's 
are costs. - They will remain and , (not <><><><> and <><><>). As such, any mana can be used to pay these requirements.
<> is only used when something produces colorless mana, and in a few cases (Thus far only in OGW), it will be used as a part of a cost.
IF it is used in a cost, a player can only pay that cost with colorless mana.
December 18, 2015 9:41 a.m.
No, because they have to pay with generic mana, e.g. Mana of any color. If it said colorless mana, then, yes, it'd be a hard counter in the said situation.
December 18, 2015 9:41 a.m.
Ok. Because that would make Spell Shrivel pretty broken in standard, although if wizards does Gatewatch right (did, technically since its finished), a lot of people will be playing colorless of some kind in standard. Flavor wise, if a deck isn't thematically centered around either Eldrazi or other ally variations (no Eldrazi, but maybe not full ally), wizards has failed on the synergy part of OGW. Thats what I love about Ingest and Processors- it actually gives us some nice synergy to play powerful cards with fairly large effects, its not just all the power you want jammed into a single card, like Siege Rhino. I hope that I get some more additions to my U/B eldrazi aggro.
December 18, 2015 9:45 a.m.
saj0219 - The new mythic land 'Mirrorpool' also has two different activation costs which require <>.
December 18, 2015 9:45 a.m.
I could see a card like Mana Leak that gives your opponent a choice of paying either or <><>... or something like that.
December 18, 2015 9:46 a.m. Edited.
AgentGreen says... #19
Midexin going back to what you said about ingest and processors. I really hope Oath expands on that greatly.
I really enjoyed the ingest & process mechanic. Maybe a cool feature is an eldrazi sitting on your side, you pay <>; process a card in exile; add one mana of the processed card color (if it has one) to your mana pool
December 18, 2015 11:50 a.m.
New eldrazi spoiled. Does lots of stuff with colorless mana link
December 18, 2015 4:02 p.m. Edited.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #22
Nice card. I like it. Lots of fun in casual.
December 18, 2015 4:06 p.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #26
WHY CAN I NOT PLAY ALL OF THESE CARDS! I really want to. Also, OGW is probably gonna make up for BFZ.
December 18, 2015 4:15 p.m.
That card is reaaaaallly good. no downside whatsoever and only restriction is playing colorless? gimme gimme yes pls
December 18, 2015 4:17 p.m.
it is6 for a worse Mind's Eye on a 5/5 body, with extra utility. i absolutely Love this card. going straight into my kozilek EDH
December 18, 2015 4:28 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #29
Yeeeessss Big Red w/ Goblin Dark Dwellers! I've been wanting to play mono-red again and I dropped it when Atarka Red got big b/c it just felt like a corruption of why I like red aggro: solid common and uncommon creatures and burn spells, no dual lands, rarely the best deck but consistently on the periphery. Maybe lightning can strike twice and I'll like big red too.
also Endbringer is honestly just a really sweet card. cool name, fair cost, it'll be an easy-to-get launch promo, and goddamn it does it all! You get a pinger, a pacifier, and a draw engine on a 5/5 for EVERY turn for the low, low price of having colorless mana production and being able to cast a 6 drop.
December 18, 2015 5:10 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #30
Endbringer is busted! Can't wait for this set. Good body, card draw, ping, preventing attackers/blockers, what's not to love?
December 18, 2015 6:16 p.m.
It may not be a standard staple, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't in some decks. Essential vigilance, 2 mana for 1 card, or blocking after the attack, or holding up a block then tapping end step for damage, or preventing an attack from an opponents fatty. No reason it shouldn't see some play, unless an insane anti-eldrazi removal spell or an instant 4 point burn spell is released in OGW.
December 18, 2015 6:17 p.m.
Midexin 5 point you mean? I doubt wizards would release that (for any reasonable mana cost). I just think he's going to be a great card.
December 18, 2015 6:26 p.m.
Yeah I meant 5 my bad. But yeah, I'm definitely going to buy as a 4 of the INSTANT I can from my LGS. That thing at least has a chance of becoming a new staple.
December 18, 2015 6:38 p.m.
I like Endbringer, I really do. It fits well into a draw/burn/control deck.
December 18, 2015 9:59 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #36
So that new goblin is basically Snappy + a 3CMC card, minus flash plus a 4/4 body and menace.
Noice. Anger of the Gods into this into Anger of the Gods sounds beautiful against Merfolk :)
December 18, 2015 10 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #37
Yeah it does. So this is the budget Snapcaster Mage all of us noob players have been waiting for. Bigger body and evasion = fun, but the 5 mana cost seems tough for aggro decks. I'm glad they're finally making more snappy-like effects though.
December 18, 2015 10:34 p.m.
WotC seems to really be pushing red midrange this set. First Chandra, now the Goblins. I could definitely see Rx or Rxx midrange, or even control, being a Tier 1 deck in standard.
December 19, 2015 2:05 a.m.
GoblinBushwacker says... #40
I would just like to note that the new goblin card isn't really similar to Snapcaster Mage. Snappy is at his best when he is chaining together Remands and stuff. This new goblin is can only "flashback" cards on your turn since you have to cast him then, making him very different, and a lot worse, then snappy. If he was to be played in eternal formats, he would probably be best in Skred red.
December 19, 2015 10:35 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #41
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip can't flashback counterspells and yet he sees legacy play.
I like goblin because he's usable in budget modern decks to fill the hole of Snapcaster Mage. Think like a bigger Grixis Delver full of delve creatures and this bad boy to round out the deck. He can flashback Lightning Bolt and Kolaghan's Command, which makes him worthy of inclusion in my mind. He's totally worse than Snapcaster Mage, but I'm excited for some budget brewing using him.
December 19, 2015 10:41 a.m.
wwhitegoldd says... #42
Jace is also 2 mana. BIIIGGGG difference between 2 and 5 mana. He might see play in skred but other than that I just don't think so.
December 19, 2015 11:03 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #43
Remember, I'm not talking about competitive play. This card will be fantastic in budget builds. Snap Kolaghan's Command is one of the best ways to use Snap, and this card costs the same amount of mana to do the same thing, but without flash, but as a 4/4 menace. I look forward to playing budget delver with this card as a 2-of.
December 19, 2015 11:09 a.m.
ITT: People who are mad at Wastes and colorless mana, but refuse to understand anything about it and act like their stubbornness is justified.
December 19, 2015 1:37 p.m. Edited.
At the risk of sounding like I've hijacked this thread to advertise my own, here is a poll I'm doing which is relevant to this thread.
Favourite OGW Expedition - Poll
Thanks
December 19, 2015 3:50 p.m.
I'm not sure if people have said this already; I haven't read the entire discussion, but I believe thats Wastes are a new basic land type that are going to be printed outside of Oath of the Gatewatch and just be a new basic for colorless. Because I mostly play Commander/EDH, the wastes are nice because they have the potential to be used in colorless decks headed by creatures like Karn, Silver Golem and Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre.
December 19, 2015 6:34 p.m.
themindxyz says... #48
I keep looking at it, and I have to say, I think this will be my favorite Nissa of all time. My only thing is that I think she's Simic, especially her second ability.But even with that, she is a fantastic card.
Rayenous says... #1
So... Goblin Dark-Dwellers...
'Snapcaster Goblins'?
Not so, 'snappy' though, without Flash.
Certainly a 'hint' (in my opinion) towards the concept that SOI may be 'Flashing Back' the 'Flashback' mechanic.
December 18, 2015 8:04 a.m.