Official Spoiler Thread: Oath Of The Gatewatch
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 3, 2015, 5:58 p.m. by ChiefBell
Official Spoiler Thread.
Have at it.
Drakon562- I have a feeling that doesn't work the way you think it does. I don't know for sure, though.
January 2, 2016 8:32 p.m.
Nightdragon779 says... #3
Drakon562 yeah I originally thought of the legions initiative combo too, but sadly it doesn't work that way. The switched p/t goes first, and then the buff applies, so it should just be a 2/4, switch 5/1.
January 2, 2016 8:33 p.m.
True, but you should then be able to put a second ability trigger onto the stack in response to the bolt. That would resolve, switch the power and toughness, Bolt would resolve, then the original activation would go off and switch P and T back.
January 2, 2016 8:41 p.m.
no. if they activate, you bolt in response. if they try to activate again, it gets switched into a 4/1 and dies before the last activation happens
January 2, 2016 8:50 p.m.
RedDiomedes says... #6
Once you have made it a 1/4 to survive bolt you can never change it back to a 4/1. Since it will have taken 3 damage and damage is not removed until the end step. So you can make it toughness 4 to survive a bolt spell which is good, but you won't be able to switch the power back to still get 4 power though.
January 2, 2016 9:03 p.m.
Edit: I just reread the card and realized it always starts off as a 1/4. For some reason I thought when it became a creature you could start it as either a 4/1 or a 1/4...
January 2, 2016 9:11 p.m. Edited.
saj0219 only problem is that the land only has the ability when active. so if they have bolt, the manland will still just die the first time you try to activate it.
btw, these mind games with the card is awesome. I love the design and i think the card is very good. it allows you to control when you want to trade or not, and you can also hold that power up defensively in decks that operate at instant speed, which is like all UR base decks
January 2, 2016 9:14 p.m.
Ashockfan, yeah... I just realized that I'd read the card wrong before :) I lose.
January 2, 2016 9:15 p.m.
If they are running lots of 1/1 tokens a 1/4 would be preferalble
January 2, 2016 9:16 p.m.
Nightdragon779 says... #11
Umm... It can be Rending Volleyed, no matter how many times it switches. So, if this ever sees competitive play, hehehe...
January 2, 2016 9:18 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #12
Your first activation to make it a 4/1 will be the last thing to resolve off the stack and their Spark Jolt or w/e will have marked 1 damage on it. When the stack clears the man land dies, pretty simple.
January 2, 2016 9:26 p.m.
AwesomeName says... #13
But can't you just activate it again in response to the Spark Jolt, because the swapping activation costs no mana to use, and then your newest activation will go on before the jolt and resolve first, letting your land survive? I'm no rules guy so idk if what I said does anything
January 2, 2016 9:30 p.m. Edited.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #14
It's always a 1/4 trying to switch to a 4/1 while the ability is on the stack.
If they're a scrub and let the ability resolve and then try to bolt it, then yeah you can swap p/t to save it.
Edit: if that is still not clear then just remember that the last thing to be resolved from the stack is the initial activation to make it a 4/1.
January 2, 2016 9:43 p.m. Edited.
AwesomeName no.
If you activate again in response to the spark jolt, The first will resolve, making it a 4/1. then bolt will resolve, killing it. creatures die when their toughness is reduced below 0, even in middle of a stack.
dont worry, I had to read lsvs post multiple times to understand the ruling as well
January 2, 2016 9:44 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #16
How likely is it that there shall be an "oath of Kiora?" If there shall not be such a card, is that a hint that she may not survive this block, or is she simply not interested in protecting the multiverse, as are the other planeswalkers?
Having mentioned that, might Sorin, Ugin, and Nahiri join the newer planeswalkers' team, or are they too interested in their own agendas?
January 2, 2016 10:02 p.m.
AwesomeName says... #17
@DemonDragonJ I think it's unlikely to get an Oath of Kiora since she is not part of the Gatewatch, which is composed of Chandra, Gideon, Nissa, and Jace. In order to pledge themselves to the Gatewatch, the four planeswalkers each made an oath, which is represented by the legendary enchantments in the set. I'd say that if someone isn't a part of the Gatewatch, they most likely will not be getting an oath card.
January 2, 2016 10:06 p.m. Edited.
No Oath of Kiora because:
- She's really not the save the multiverse type.
- There's no room for her oath in the cycle.
- She doesn't play nice with others.
I don't think lacking an oath card hints she's dying, I just don't think she's the oath taking type.
January 2, 2016 10:09 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #19
AwesomeName: why, exactly, are they called the "Gatewatch?" The "watch" part of the name makes sense, but to what "gate" is the name referring?
January 2, 2016 10:12 p.m.
AwesomeName says... #20
@DemonDragonJ I think it may be the Sea Gate that the Eldrazi destroyed. I don't know too much about the story though so I could be wrong.
January 2, 2016 10:14 p.m. Edited.
Nightdragon779 says... #21
If they make oath of Gideon, I'll be pretty damn confused because Ob Nixilis drowned him in this uncharted realms
January 2, 2016 10:15 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #22
Technically Gideon isn't confirmed dead yet. It's likely that someone (Chandra?) will end up drawing Ob Nixilis's attention away from him in time to save him. Just because he's now probably important to future stories as a member of the Gatewatch.
January 2, 2016 10:22 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #23
AwesomeName, that makes sense, indeed, that they would wish to honor the memory of an important location on Zendikar, similar to how Amber Alert is named in honor of a young child named Amber (not because it is less dire than red alert, which was my initial presumption).
Nightdragon779, we do not yet know that Gideon is dead, and I highly doubt that WotC would kill off such a major character in such an anticlimactic manner.
January 2, 2016 10:22 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #24
I actually like the way he was defeated. It was a pretty badass way to defeat an invulnerable character by such a badass character.
January 2, 2016 10:23 p.m.
You know seeing as how Ob-Nix beat Gideon I can only speculate that Kiora could beat him the same way...
January 3, 2016 2:58 a.m.
Gideon ain't dead. Chandra still has to jump in and burninate the countryside.
January 3, 2016 3:31 a.m.
To make it clear just in case anybody does not understand:
The manland starts out as a 1/4.
1) The trigger to switch it's P/T is put on the stack.
2) The opponent responds with Lightning Bolt.
The stack would resolve backwards, so this is what happens:
2) Lightning Bolt marks three damage on the manland.
1) The P/T switch turns the manland into a 4/1, so the damage marked on it is sufficient to kill it.
So what if we then put another P/T switch on the stack?
3) The P/T switch resolves, turning the manland into a 4/1.
2) Lightning Bolt resolves, marking three damage on the manland- which, incidentally, exceeds the toughness of the creature, and so it dies as a state-based action.
1) The P/T switch resolves, but the manland is already dead.
As for the Legion's Initiative ruling, the way I see it is that the buffs apply after the base P/T of the creature, so Turn to Frog on a 5/5 creature enchanted with Angelic Destiny would make the outcome be a 5/5 Flying, First Strike Frog Angel. Frog Angel? Really?
In regards to the latest UR, I feel obligated to point out how unlikely it is that Gideon dies. I mean, we have an illusionist right behind him, and Chandra is happily Incinerateing everything in sight (which, incidentally, kills Ob Nixilis, the Fallen or Ob Nixilis Reignited after his -3). Another thing of note is how Nissa temporarily reverts to being a B/G elf from Lorwyn, identifying Nixy as an eyeblight.
January 3, 2016 5:20 a.m.
Darkmagi1131 says... #31
Here's my take on a Tron Super Friends deck using Oath of Nissa Urza's Descendants Let me know what you think!
January 3, 2016 7:29 a.m.
Will Kozilek, The Great Distortion be seeing play in any formats? A lot of competitive players I know online say it's not very good.
(btw idk how to tag spoiled ogw cards)
January 3, 2016 8:15 a.m.
Darkmagi1131 says... #33
Honestly outside of Standard ramp decks once Ugin rotates you might see a 1 of in some Tron builds as a hand reloader but overall I don't see him seeing much play. As a Colorless EDH commander however I do see alot of potential with its reload ability possibly being able to be used multiple times per game.
January 3, 2016 8:19 a.m.
Darkmagi1131 I've heard a lot of people say it's not as good as Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. Since I'm starting to make an eldrazi tribal animar edh deck, do you think I should run both kozileks?
January 3, 2016 8:23 a.m.
Darkmagi1131 says... #35
If your doing tribal Eldrazi I'd run both for flavor reasons, however remember that Animar can't reduce the cost of The Great Distortion below CC as Animar only reduces generic mana. Plus you will need a source that produces colorless mana. That's one of the downsides of the Great Distortion vas the Butcher
January 3, 2016 8:35 a.m.
Yeah, and giving kozilek menace is definetly a drawback from annihilator. Also, with me having a bunch of high cmc stuff, I'd probably almost never use new kozilek's counter ability.
January 3, 2016 8:42 a.m.
Darkmagi1131 says... #37
Yea I like him as the commander due to being able to re-play him and possibly get his draw up to 7 off again... outside of that however....
January 3, 2016 8:52 a.m.
Darkmagi1131 (finishing your sentence) he's really only good for card collections and flavor.
January 3, 2016 8:56 a.m.
Darkmagi1131 says... #39
Exactly... which is too bad as I'm an Eldrazi fanatic. I really want to like him but sadly he doesn't match up to Newlamog.
January 3, 2016 9:02 a.m.
People seriously underrate the new Kozilek. People compare it to Ulamog, but they're about as different from one another as Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip and Tarmogoyf.
Let's start with the first difference: Ulamog acts as removal, Kozilek acts as card advantage. Removal may be a form of card advantage, but exiling two is vastly different than drawing five.
What about the second difference? Ulamog is clearly made to beat down on your opponent. Kozilek slowly dismantles your opponent's board presence, and is harder to chump block.
And the third difference? Kozilek has a different protection method to Ulamog- one that I would argue is superior. Here, let me list all the spells which get rid of Ulamog:
All of these see standard play, and all of them kill Ulamog. Now, while you can't do anything about a Scatter to the Winds, Kozilek counters all of the rest. Notice how Utter End was the only mentioned card that did not have a CMC of 3. Now you can stock up on cards with a CMC of 3 to counter those cards, but be careful of Utter End or Immolating Glare if you play Kozilek.
The real point I was trying to make is that Kozilek can cover for a person trying to cast Ulamog, so that they effectively eradicate each other's weaknesses. Nice, huh? Now you just have to load up on Spatial Contortions so that you don't die to Mantis Rider.
January 3, 2016 9:05 a.m.
Darkmagi1131 Yeah, eldrazi's the first tribe I truly enjoy. I love the flavor, abilities, how they are in the mtg storyline, oh and the card art.
DarkLaw Interesting, I'm still waiting on more spoilers to figure out what kind of eldrazi deck i'll build for standard.
January 3, 2016 9:10 a.m.
Camel-Senpai says... #42
DarkLaw While your point stands, I've still yet to think of an EDH deck that would effectively use that theme
January 3, 2016 9:43 a.m.
The new Kozilek will work in a reanimation Volrath the Fallen commander deck.
If I find that he takes up space in my Animar Drazi Commander deck then I'll shove him into Volrath's deck (which I have yet to make too :).
January 3, 2016 9:57 a.m.
Harashiohorn says... #44
But you can activate any number of times in response to the response. Ie. Trigger, Response, Trigger, Trigger.
January 3, 2016 11:34 a.m.
Doesn't matter. No matter how many times you switch it, bolt will either do 3 damage to a 4/1 and kill it, or 3 damage to a 1/4 which becomes a 4/1 and dies.
January 3, 2016 11:50 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #46
New Kozilek will see Standard play for sure. It complements Ulamog well and is just as powerful in my opinion.
January 3, 2016 11:53 a.m.
sergiodelrio says... #48
TobyG true. Or even efficient one drops whatsoever. Whatever happened to those? Still hoping for Goblin Guide xD
January 3, 2016 1:32 p.m.
Atarka red is already one of the best decks in the format. Goblin Guide would it op.
January 3, 2016 1:36 p.m.
We already got the new Bushwhacker, so Goblin Guide my be a stretch :P but another one or two cmc burn spell would be nice.
mtgThaen says... #1
Actually, a competent opponent will be able to kill it. Casting bolt in response to the activation will get it killed, since the bolt will resolve first.
January 2, 2016 8:30 p.m.